83mm 1500cc piston/cylinder question

[aquifer]

[Cusser]

[aquifer]

This project is coming along nicely. Here are a couple of pictures. I kept it wrapped in an engine bag to keep everything clean between the times I could work on it. Tons of reading and studying, searching the forum. Hopefully it runs when I get it done!

Next is the rocker arms and then the tinwork.

_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[glutamodo]

You probably have more than one kind of rocker arm stud O-rings in there, going back to long-stud 40HP. You only use the ones your heads need.
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Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[aquifer]

I got the bottom end reassembled. It turns buttery smooth! It went pretty well, but I want to make sure I didn’t forget to install something before I move on.

Let me know what I might have missed inside the case. I still have a lot of work to do, but if I need to split the case because I forgot to do something, now is the time!

1. Distributor drive gear is timed correctly, and the end play is fine. Two shims are installed at the base.
2. All 8 cam followers are in place.
3. The cam gear and crank gear are timed correctly with the right dot alignment.
4. O-rings are installed around the 6 big case studs
5. Cam plug is installed.
6. I used a thin coat of Permatex Aviation on the case seam (one side only).
7. I used Driven assembly oil on the bearings and camshaft bushings, and I used Driven assembly grease on the cam lobes and followers. I’ll be using Driven break in oil.

I have several small O-rings left from the gasket kit I bought. I realize it’s a universal kit, so they might not even be for my engine. There were no similar O-rings inside the case when I took it apart. Still, I keep thinking I missed something. As #4 says, the main O-rings are installed on the big studs.

Here’s a picture of the assembled case.

_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[aquifer]

A quick update on this project:

My engine machine shop buddy removed the oil galley plugs and tapped the holes for threaded plugs. Then he cleaned the galleys and put the engine in his parts washer machine. The case looks great!

FWIW, I HIGHLY recommend removing the plugs to clean the oil galleys when you rebuild an engine. The amount of gunk that came out was impressive. It was everywhere, but it was really visible near the plugs themselves when he pulled them out. I don't suppose all of the gunk would have ended up in the bearings, but some of it would have been jarred loose from the work and would have flowed directly to the bearings if we hadn't pulled the galley plugs. Good to know that it's clean as a whistle now. The oil galleys in the crankshaft were full of gunk too.

Today he's machining and honing the rods to restore the correct length. They are slightly elongated, but they're in good shape and it's an easy fix with the right equipment. New rod bearings and bushings are ready.

I'm soaking up knowledge like a sponge. Good stuff!
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[Rome]

[Rome]

[glutamodo]

I thought I posted about the oil pump, maybe I gave up before finishing it.

Yeah, and if you look at the listing (not in stock right now though) at Wolfsburg West, they sell the 26mm pump with longer studs.

Oil pumps work (this is a real basic way of describing it) by the surface area of the gears turning squishing the oil, so to get more volume, you make the gears longer. Diameter is the same, they are just 5mm longer gears and the housing is longer to match. Now, "detailing" the oil pump will make it so the oil flows in and out of it more efficiently.
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Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[aquifer]

Good call, the studs definitely wouldn’t be long enough. I should have thought of checking it that way. I’d have to use longer studs.

Probably a silly question, but is the extra “bigness” of the bigger oil pumps all on the outside of the engine case? In other words, the pump body doesn’t stick deeper into the case, it’s just thicker on the outside of the case? So the ports on the pump line up with the ports in the case regardless of which pump you use?

I’m leaning toward a stock 21mm Schadek pump that I found at Dune Buggy Warehouse. With the engine overhaul and thorough oil galley cleaning that I’m doing, the engine should have good oil pressure from the stock size pump. Also, I read that bigger pumps in a single relief case like mine can sometimes cause a leak at the oil cooler upon cold starting from too much pressure. Later dual relief cases alleviated that problem. It makes sense for me to stick with a new 21mm pump with what I’m trying to accomplish, so I think that’s what I’ll do.
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[Rome]

[aquifer]

I need to replace the oil pump. The pump is original, the tab that goes in the camshaft is worn pretty badly, and the gear faces are slightly pitted. My buddy recommended a new pump while we’re at it.

We found a “heavy duty” pump at CB Performance for 6mm studs. Says the gears are 1/4” longer than stock, so probably about 27mm-ish vs 21mm that mine are. The claim is that it pumps more volume and pressure, which it probably does.

Here are my questions/concerns:

1. Will the higher pressure cause the oil to run hotter? The oil pump description claims that it will run cooler, but I can’t see how that’s true. More pressure would keep the relief valve pushed down until it got REALLY hot and thin enough for the valve to close and force the oil to the cooler. Or what am I missing here?

2. Are my studs long enough for the bigger pump? The description claims it bolts right in. Hmm. Not sure about that…does anyone know?

3. As far as I can tell, CB Performance is a good quality supplier. But if I want a truly stock new 21mm pump, who makes the best one? CB doesn’t offer completely stock pumps, unless I missed it somehow. I saw others on the internet, but I’m not sure of the quality.

4. Does anyone have experience with the CB Performance heavy duty pump?

We’re going to call CB to order what we need, to make sure we get the right stuff, so we will ask these questions. But I’d feel better if I had some independent answers to the questions ahead of time!

Thanks again for all the advice. I’m learning a TON about engine rebuilding from my buddy and from the research and advice I’ve gotten here.
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[aquifer]

A few new developments that I’d like to hear your thoughts on:

1. The engine hasn’t been overhauled as the PO represented.

2. The crank bearing bores measure .001” or less over the maximum tolerance for standard bore, according to my engine machinist buddy, who has detailed books that give tolerances. He doesn’t do VW engines, but he is measuring stuff for me and offering advice. I watched him measure, and educated myself. He said his normal reaction is to line bore and bring everything back into specs. But he did say that in this case I might get by ok just putting it together with new standard size bearings. What do you think?

3. We have not measured the crank journals or the rods yet, but probably by tomorrow we’ll know what shape they are in. His visual assessment says that the crank journals that are visible may polish up pretty good and not need grinding. If it does need grinding, where can I find smaller ID bearings? Everything I saw online is standard ID bearings, which would mean that grinding the crank is not possible, and a new crank would be needed I guess?

4. He highly recommends removing the oil galley plugs and cleaning out the galleys with solvent and brushes. He’s a very good engine builder (but doesn’t do VW’s) and he said he would very much recommend it. You can get threaded galley plugs online, which would require tapping. This doesn’t terrify me, and my buddy thinks it’s no big deal at all for the peace of mind it provides by getting the galleys clean. What say you about removing the galley plugs?

I’m interested in your general thoughts. Assuming the crank can be polished and the main bearing bores are .001 over tolerance, what would you do? Keep in mind that the car is semi retired. It’s driven delicately and mainly for fun. That said, I want it to be in good enough shape for Sunday drives around the area.

Thank you again!
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[glutamodo]

I've taken cases to the coin op car wash and blasted out the oil galleries, this was after spray-can carb/choke cleaner run through them. And usually hose some clean water in there before I blow them out with compressed air. I briefly mentioned this earlier but very simply, when I said "just solvent, rinse and blow is good enough".

Yeah you'd have to bolt the case together to mic it. For that flashlight test I mentioned above, the 6 big nuts are enough to reveal a warped block, so no need to spend any more time than that. You might want to do at least some of the others though if you're getting the case mic'd.
_________________
Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[aquifer]

Fair enough, thank you.

Getting ready to take the block, crank, cam, and old bearings to my local engine shop. He doesn't do VW engines, but he's a friend so he's going to measure stuff and assess the condition of things.

He said to properly torque the case halves back together so he can measure the bearing saddles inside the case. I assume they should be round, and if so, I probably won't need to line bore it? He isn't set up to line bore a VW engine, but he can tell me if the bore is round, what size OD the bearings should be, and he can clean everything.

He said it's critical to flush the oil galleys and passages so there isn't stuff floating around in there, which makes sense to me. He mentioned an oil galley plug in a normal engine, but I don't think there is such a thing on a VW engine? So what is the best way to flush the oil galleys? He has an industrial engine solvent washer that looks like a giant dishwasher to me. Apparently you can also hook up a hose to the oil galleys and flush them.

Once I know if the bore is round, and everything is clean, we'll move on to the crank and camshaft. I will report back with my findings.
_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[ashman40]

[glutamodo]

I doubt the cam bearing shell "spun out", those bearing shells seat rather exactly and the little corner indents are sufficient to keep them in place. I like to use red colored Scotch Brite to polish those case surfaces. (cutting Scotch Brite into long strips, you can use those to polish the rod and main bearing surfaces on the crankshaft too.)

Now one test that the machinist I used back in the early 90s told me to do, now that the case is cleaned and totally bare is to put it back together completely empty. Get out the 6 big nuts and washers and tighten, then torque the case to spec, 25 foot pounds. Then get out a bright flashlight in a dim room and put in where the crankshaft ought to be, shine it at where the bearing saddles come together and see how flush they are. If you can see an air gap where the case halves meet, the case is warped. My guess this one is good, but I always check this, and I have discarded cases that failed this.
_________________
Andy T.

"What is Glutamodo, Horror of Toyko, besides total, fiendish, quality-a-you brain!"

[aquifer]

I’m absorbing advice like a sponge, thank you!

Below is a picture of my camshaft bore in the case…not sure what it’s called. This one appears to be damaged, like maybe the bushing spun. It didn’t spin too much, because you can still see the VW stamp in there. This one is the worst, but the one on the other end is similar. The one in the middle looks fine. Both case halves look like this.

There aren’t any dowels like there are for the crankshaft, so I’m not sure how the bushings are kept from spinning. It would seem that my cam bore needs to be line bored? Do they make oversized bushings to use after line boring this area? What keeps the bushings from spinning in the case?

What am I looking at here? A problem? Normal? Fixable?

Thanks again for all input!

_________________
Project vehicles:
1967 Beetle #1. Bought in 2024, mostly original, October 1966 build date. Java Green.
1967 Beetle #2. Bought in the mid 80's, restored myself in the late 90's, June 1967 build date. Java Green.
1998 Jaguar XJR. Bought in 2015, rust free AZ car, refurbished myself. Driven in nice weather.

Parts needed:
Original brown rubber floor mats for a '67
Original gazelle seat upholstery for a ‘67

[ashman40]

[Rome]

Your crank's center main journal scoring looks like a simple polishing won't be enough, though you can try. Most likely will need to have it machined for next undersize so that you end up with a smooth, nearly mirror-finish on the journal. Such machining is usually done for all 3 of the larger main journals, and to the small one at the pulley end so that you buy a full set of bearings which are next undersize.

Before you remove the rods from the crank, you can rotate all rods so that they line up across the small ends. When in that position, push any of the piston wrist pins through two adjacent small ends. If the rods are not slightly bent, the pin will push through one rod and cleanly into another. If one of the adjacent rods is slightly bent, the pin won't go into the 2nd rod. Slightly bent rods can be straightened by an automotive machine shop.

Mark the connecting rods with the cylinder locations (1 thru 4) before you remove them from the crank. After cleaning, examine the surfaces on the big ends carefully for signs of blue discoloration. That indicates overheating. If no bluing is observed, used connecting rods can be sent in as rebuildable cores to machine shops which sell you rebuilt rods, which are probably cheaper than having your rods redone. Rebuilding rods also includes checking the big ends' bores, and "resizing". If you can still find a shop that sells rebuilt rods, compare the prices to new ones made in China...

Camshaft reuse- possible. You have to check each lobe carefully for bluing (overheating). Then you can measure the total lift at the peak of the lobe and compare to that of the other lobes to determine if the basic lobe has worn down too much. Distance of lobe tip to the bottom of the lobe, compared to the distance a quarter turn where you're measuring across the cam. That difference would be the total lift. Measure several times to gain confidence and repeatability.

Also examine the teeth on the cam gear for excessive wear/chips/broken sections.