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mmmatt
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Milwaukee
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 Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 9:55 am Post subject: Eurovan Problem |
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Hey there. First post here and looking for some help. I have lurked here fora bit and always found my answers through searches but came up blank this time. Here is what is going on:
2000 Eurovan
Battery died on me and wouldn't take a charge. This happed this weekend (over labor day weekend) and none of the walmarts or autozones that were open had a battery for me so I jumped it from my charger and just kept it running when I had to go anywhere. Ran fine, no problems other than not starting.
So I go to a specialty battery store and ask for a battery for this beast and they say $95! I said no thanks and drove home to pull the battery out and measure. They are all just 12v batteries, and because of some funky clip on the bottom lip of this thing the price doubles!
So I call them back and put the original batt back in to go get the cheap version. After reinstalling the battery, the van idles fine and drives fine untill I start to accelerate. Then it is good for about a 800-1000 rpm push and then it sputters. Engine doesn't die, it just won't accelerate. Then after about 2 sec it gives me another 500-1000 rpm boost and does the same thing. By pulsing it with my foot I can get to about 50 but that is it.
So I thought I probably didn't get a good connection and continued on to the battery store to replace. I did and same thing (except now it starts like a champ!). I was low on gas so I thought that was it. Nope. New gas, same thing.
Van idles perfectly, and I can rev all the way up in park or neutral no problem. Sounds and acts fine until I try to accelerate. I didn't touch anything while in there except the connector block which I had lo slide back to get the battery out. All wires look good, and I didn't yank on anything pulling the battery out. I need to get a longer bold to reattach the conector block bracket over the non-standard battery but that couldn't be it could it? That isn't how the ground conects is it? I did have it connected with the old battery after reinstalling so that can't be it.
Does anyone have any idea what this could be? Could this be a computer issue that didn't like that I disconnected the battery? The battery has been dead enough to loose my dashboard clock 5 or 6 times this week.
Please help, I am super broke right now and con't afford to take it to the dealer.
Matt |
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basil
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Joined: December 14, 2005
Posts: 103
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:16 am Post subject: |
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Matt,
Has your check engine light come on? If ti has, You may want to go to your friendly local auto parts store and have them read the code for you.
They can point you in the right direction at least. You may want check out the ev_update group over at Yahoo Groups. There is a wealth of Eurovan knowledge there.
Basil
'02 EVWK
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Cashtration: The act of buying a Beetle and then emptying your bank accounts. |
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snowsyncro
Samba Member
Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 10:49 am Post subject: |
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My EVs are older (95 newest) so I am not sure if this will help or not...
You were working in the general vicinity of the engine computer. It resides in behind the headlight, in front of the battery compartment. Make sure you did not dislodge or break the vacuum line that runs to the ECU, hauling batteries in and out. It runs right through the area in front of the battery.
As I said, this applies to the older Eurovans, I have no experience with your year, but loss of that vacuum can cause the type of problem you are experiencing.
RonC |
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mmmatt
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Joined: September 08, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 11:15 am Post subject: |
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| basil wrote: |
Matt,
Has your check engine light come on? If ti has, You may want to go to your friendly local auto parts store and have them read the code for you.
They can point you in the right direction at least. You may want check out the ev_update group over at Yahoo Groups. There is a wealth of Eurovan knowledge there.
Basil
'02 EVWK |
Too funny! After typing this and then cleaning off my terminal connections I did just that. Autozone says:
******
P1580
Definition
00 throtle actuator B1 malfunction
Explanation
00 Open or short circuit connection
Probable Cause
001 - Poor electrical connection
002 - Dirty or damaged throttle body
003 - Failed throttle actuator
can anyone explain where the throttle body/actuator is located? I don't have a book for this van and can't find one locally.
| snowsyncro wrote: |
My EVs are older (95 newest) so I am not sure if this will help or not...
You were working in the general vicinity of the engine computer. It resides in behind the headlight, in front of the battery compartment. Make sure you did not dislodge or break the vacuum line that runs to the ECU, hauling batteries in and out. It runs right through the area in front of the battery.
As I said, this applies to the older Eurovans, I have no experience with your year, but loss of that vacuum can cause the type of problem you are experiencing.
RonC |
Great, I will check this as well.
Thanks so much guys for the quick responses! Lot's of forums aren't like that! Especially with the new guy who's first post is a "help me" post.
Matt |
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snowsyncro
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Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 1:14 pm Post subject: |
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| mmmatt wrote: |
can anyone explain where the throttle body/actuator is located? I don't have a book for this van and can't find one locally.
Matt |
My Bentley only covers up to 1999, but for the V6 (AES) engine it says this:
P1580 Throttle Actuator (B1) Malfunction
Corrective Steps: Check Throttle Valve Control Module => page G 24-72
At page 24-72 there is a six page procedure for checking the Throttle Valve Control Module, followed by a seven-page procedure for checking the Throttle Valve Actuator. I don't have time to describe/duplicate this right now, but to answer your question:
The throttle actuator is part of the throttle valve control module assembly. This sits on top of the intake manifold, between the intake hose from the air cleaner, and the connector piece that feeds air to the intake manifold. It has a black 8-pin connector and two small coolant lines connected to it. The module includes the Throttle Position Actuator V60, the Throttle Position Sensor G88, the Throttle Position sensor G69 and Closed Throttle Position Switch F60, and is heated by engine coolant.
From the top looking down it looks like a short cylinder in the direction of air flow, with projections coming the sides of the cylinder, i.e. the front and back of the car.
The order of the components (that the air flows through) is:
air breather
mass air flow sensor
intake hose
throttle valve control module
connector
intake manifold
Maybe the connector got loosened if you leaned on it?
RonC |
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mmmatt
Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 3:15 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Ron,
that is nice of you to look that up for me. I don't expect you to recite it to me though. That would be asking a little much!
I bought some cleaner and cleaned the throttle body 3 times so I can take that off the list. I looked over every conection and everything seems to be in good shape. All vacuum hoses I found near the ecu and throttle body look to be fine and are connected.
I was thinking about going through all the wire connectors and hitting them with some contact enhancer (I have de-oxit) thinking there is maybe some corrosion. Before I shoot one of those little springy things across the driveway maybe someone can tell me how to separate those connectors... do you pry the paperclip looking things off or squeeze them to release? Squeezing them doesn't seem to work.
thanks again guys!!!!!
Matt |
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snowsyncro
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Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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The paper clip thing stays on the connector. You squeeze it as you suggest, and you are right, it can be both difficult and painful at first. It seems to be the type of thing that, once you get the hang of it, it is not so bad.
Those clips are U-shaped, with two sides that slide along the connector body, and the part between the two sides that sticks out away from the connector shell. You squeeze the part that sticks out until it is flat against the connector shell (or until your fingers bleed), then simultaneously pull the connector halves apart. You can tell when you are doing it right when it leaves a permanent impression in your finger.
It helps if you hold your tongue right. And if it is freezing cold, like it always seems to be when I need to take them apart, it doesn't hurt so much because your fingers are frozen. But they still bleed.
RonC |
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dhermanesq
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Joined: December 15, 2006
Posts: 160
Location: MKEWI
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| Posted: Tue Sep 08, 2009 7:25 pm Post subject: |
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You have to reset the throttle position sensor. I forget how to do it on the vr6 ev's but its in the book. Anytime you switch the batteries youll have to do this. Also on some of the late models, the auto windows won't work unless you go into the computer and tell it its okay for all the features to come back on. Go up to O'Reilly's on Capitol and buy an OBD II computer. You'll need it forever. Make sure that it can reset stuff. Or PM me and I can help you. Im in Riverwest. Add one EV to the mix fellas!!
_________________
1993 VW Eurovan 5-Speed
1995 Mercedes S600 v12 (Rides again!)
2001 Passat V6-30v |
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snowsyncro
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Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 5:51 am Post subject: |
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| dhermanesq wrote: |
| You have to reset the throttle position sensor. I forget how to do it on the vr6 ev's but its in the book. Anytime you switch the batteries youll have to do this. Also on some of the late models, the auto windows won't work unless you go into the computer and tell it its okay for all the features to come back on. Go up to O'Reilly's on Capitol and buy an OBD II computer. You'll need it forever. Make sure that it can reset stuff. Or PM me and I can help you. Im in Riverwest. Add one EV to the mix fellas!! |
Here is what the book says...
You must perform Function 04 "Basic setting" if the Throttle Valve Control Module J338 is removed, installed or replaced. => page G 24-90
Then, page G 24-90 says...
-Only perform Function 04 "Basic setting" if the Throttle Valve Control Module, Engine Control Module or engine was replaced.
- Function 04 "Basic setting" (with ignition switched ON) matches the Engine Control Module to the Throttle Valve Control Module.
- etc.
While it does not say specifically about the battery, I agree with what dhermanesq is saying. It would make sense that removing battery power would be the same as removing the throttle valve control module -- it must be an electrical thing -- surely the mechanical aspect of the removal could not affect the engine control module.
But i can say that removing the battery in a 95 EV does not require resetting anything -- it all works as before. Not the same engine though. I suppose I could check and see of the same warning exists for the I-5 engine.
RonC |
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mmmatt
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Joined: September 08, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| dhermanesq wrote: |
| You have to reset the throttle position sensor. I forget how to do it on the vr6 ev's but its in the book. Anytime you switch the batteries youll have to do this. Also on some of the late models, the auto windows won't work unless you go into the computer and tell it its okay for all the features to come back on. Go up to O'Reilly's on Capitol and buy an OBD II computer. You'll need it forever. Make sure that it can reset stuff. Or PM me and I can help you. Im in Riverwest. Add one EV to the mix fellas!! |
Holy crap! Quite the offer my friend!!! Very good info. And.... the auto windows have been sporadic.
Also, I did find a frayed wire, although I don't know what it is attached to  . It isn't broken but the insulation is torn and there is rust on the wire.
Here is a pic. The frayed wire is on "A". Is this the throttle control module?
Thanks thanks thanks guys!!!!! Calling O'Reilly's now.
Matt |
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dhermanesq
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Joined: December 15, 2006
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Location: MKEWI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:23 am Post subject: |
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You're right. The 92-96? I think are the ones that don't require this sort of nonsense. I'm not sure why this reset is required but you have to do it. Otherwise you can continue to drive around with no power or anything and then one day, POOF!! Everything will work like the days of old. Their a strange breed those VW computer designers.
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1993 VW Eurovan 5-Speed
1995 Mercedes S600 v12 (Rides again!)
2001 Passat V6-30v |
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mmmatt
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Joined: September 08, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:42 am Post subject: |
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| dhermanesq wrote: |
| You're right. The 92-96? I think are the ones that don't require this sort of nonsense. I'm not sure why this reset is required but you have to do it. Otherwise you can continue to drive around with no power or anything and then one day, POOF!! Everything will work like the days of old. Their a strange breed those VW computer designers. |
Ha! I wonder how much $$$ they put into engineering things to be proprietary and to specifically confuse the customer into going to the dealer for service? Don't get me started on those stupid plug wire boot wrenches! That all being said this van is a perfect travel/camping van for my daughter and I (mine is the backwards middle seat, hard top, table in the middle variety), a large space for moving my equipment (I am a photographer), and far less lemming-ish than every other van on the market. A little better gas mileage, a little more space between front and middle seats, and a little more power and this van would be perfect. All is adequate though and nbd in the scheme of things.
Thanks again guys for all the help. Oh, and O'Rilley's wants $200 for their obd computer so I am going to get one at Harbor Freight for $59-$99... a little more in my price range.
Matt |
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mmmatt
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dhermanesq
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Joined: December 15, 2006
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Location: MKEWI
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 7:55 am Post subject: |
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Eurovan. There's nothing "mini" about it.
_________________
1993 VW Eurovan 5-Speed
1995 Mercedes S600 v12 (Rides again!)
2001 Passat V6-30v |
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mmmatt
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Joined: September 08, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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OK... is there a mod around? You may want to sticky this thread or some how add this info to archives. Here is the solution thanks to google. I googled reset P1580 vw which led me to an article stating that there needed to be a throttle body adaptation. Then I googled vw "throttle body adaptation" and came across a thread on vwvortex that gave me the answer.
So, If you disconnect your battery on an OBD II compliant VW, or at least some of them, it will essentially de-program your throttle body. Then to reprogram or perform a throttle body adaptation, you simply open the door, insert the key, turn on the ignition without starting the car or touching the throttle, and wait 30 seconds. The throttle body then reprograms itself and you are ready to go!!!!!
Woo Hoo!!!!!!
thanks to everyone for the help!!! I'll be back soon to bug you guys about my A/C issues 
Matt |
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toyvergnugen
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 1:21 pm Post subject: |
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| That is good information. Not exactly the same issue but do you have to reset the cruise control also when you replace the battery? |
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snowsyncro
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Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Good job. That is nuts!
RonC |
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mmmatt
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Posts: 9
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 2:58 pm Post subject: |
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| toyvergnugen wrote: |
| That is good information. Not exactly the same issue but do you have to reset the cruise control also when you replace the battery? |
I don't know! I haven't tried it yet. CC on my van has never been overly responsive so I will see if it is better now or not working. Also, there is apparently some disagreement over at vwvortex as to if this is actually a tb adaptation but I am 100% sure this fixed MY problem, so YMMV. I did clear the code prior so that may be part of the magic but nothing worked until I did the key thing. That, without question, solved my problem.
thanks again for all the attention here guys. Great forum!
Matt |
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snowsyncro
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Joined: January 11, 2009
Posts: 1557
Location: East Preston, Nova Scotia, Canada
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| Posted: Wed Sep 09, 2009 6:29 pm Post subject: |
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Just a follow-up on a couple of questions you asked...
You have probably figured this out already, but in your picture, the throttle valve control module is "C". "A" is the EVAP cannister purge regulator valve.
About the repair manual. The book you want usually called Bentley, because it is published by Robert Bentley Publishing. That link you had is for the DVD version, and it looks like it is the same as the book, but I was a little confused by the title. It looks like it says "Repair Information on DVD". My book, which only goes to 1999, is a two book set, titled "Official Factory Repair Manual."
RonC |
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mmmatt
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Joined: September 08, 2009
Posts: 9
Location: Milwaukee
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| Posted: Thu Sep 10, 2009 12:54 pm Post subject: |
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| snowsyncro wrote: |
Just a follow-up on a couple of questions you asked...
You have probably figured this out already, but in your picture, the throttle valve control module is "C". "A" is the EVAP cannister purge regulator valve.
About the repair manual. The book you want usually called Bentley, because it is published by Robert Bentley Publishing. That link you had is for the DVD version, and it looks like it is the same as the book, but I was a little confused by the title. It looks like it says "Repair Information on DVD". My book, which only goes to 1999, is a two book set, titled "Official Factory Repair Manual."
RonC |
Thanks so much Ron! I actually didn't figure out my ABC's on that yet so I appreciate the info. Van is running great, and my frustrating, long labor day weekend, is already a funny story. It did suck though!
As for Cruise Control, it works but I don't think it ever gave me a problem. The thing that has me curious now, is that I have had the battery disconnected before... at least 1 side of it. I think the slow gradual die off of the battery must have had something to do with it. The auto function on the windows was intermittent when I was having to jump the vehicle over the weekend, but it ran fine. The issue started the second I pulled that batt out of the vehicle. I'm just glad it is working now and all it cost me was a couple really frustrated days! I am also stunned as to how much research it took me to find this fix. I doubt it is that big of a fluke!!!
Take care guys.
Matt |
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