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bgprest
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 158
Location: Plano, TX
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 Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 8:20 pm Post subject: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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I'm getting my wheels powder coated and want to keep my Bus stock with the original silver. I searched the posts and found that, for 1978, the wheel color code is L95X silver.
The problem is that my painter can't locate that color code.
Need some quick help on what to do. Thanks! |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Wed Sep 06, 2017 9:55 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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Sorry to bust into semantics, but the factory paint codes are just that - codes for PAINT. Powder coat is completely different, it is not paint. When "How It's Made" refers to powder coating as painting, it is a misnomer.
If you're using a painter, he can mix to achieve the code you desire. If you're using a powder coater, he cannot mix to create your factory color (he can mix them, but thats a crap shoot, not a scientifically calculated formula, like paint is). Unless a powder manufacturer has formulated a color-matched powder to match a given factory code, then all you can do is find the next closest thing.
That said, I had mine done last year, and not only do they look outstanding, but they're very close to the factory color, if not identical. If I recall, the color is called "Chrome," and it's a two-part color: the base, and the clear coat. Without clear-coating, the metallized powder base will oxidize. Your coater should know how to do this properly, although it's a bit pricier. Any bright silver powders should be pretty close, but I'm not so particular.
So you painting, or powdering?  |
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bgprest
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 158
Location: Plano, TX
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 6:23 am Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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I'll check into "Chrome" - it sounds like a good color. Do you know what powder paint company markets it?
I had one person recommend "Bengal Silver" by Tiger Powder as a close match to the stock L95X Silver.
Anybody else have experience with it or with others? |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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My guy used "Argent Silver" powdercoat wheel paint. Nice match.
Last edited by Randy in Maine on Mon Sep 11, 2017 1:10 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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bgprest
Samba Member
Joined: December 15, 2009
Posts: 158
Location: Plano, TX
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:45 am Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| I found the L95X Silver from a search of posts here on The Samba. I found that supposedly the L91 Chrome was used up until the mid-70's and then they switched to the L95X in around '96. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23096
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 1:46 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| Busstom wrote: |
Sorry to bust into semantics, but the factory paint codes are just that - codes for PAINT. Powder coat is completely different, it is not paint. When "How It's Made" refers to powder coating as painting, it is a misnomer.
If you're using a painter, he can mix to achieve the code you desire. If you're using a powder coater, he cannot mix to create your factory color (he can mix them, but thats a crap shoot, not a scientifically calculated formula, like paint is). Unless a powder manufacturer has formulated a color-matched powder to match a given factory code, then all you can do is find the next closest thing.
That said, I had mine done last year, and not only do they look outstanding, but they're very close to the factory color, if not identical. If I recall, the color is called "Chrome," and it's a two-part color: the base, and the clear coat. Without clear-coating, the metallized powder base will oxidize. Your coater should know how to do this properly, although it's a bit pricier. Any bright silver powders should be pretty close, but I'm not so particular.
So you painting, or powdering? |
Actually not quite correct....the powder coating industry DOES have a well established and accurate color specification and mixing system that is used in the INDUSTRIAL and aerospace powder coating and baked enamel industry....and is primarily a DIN based system but used world wide....
....and its also an issue that most general powder coating companies are little guys and do not do much industrial stuff...nor do they desire to spend the required money buy the proper spectrophotometric and lighting inspection booth equipment to properly verify colors.
Understand the need for this....like an aircraft company that has an ISO spec for color of powder coated parts that must be exact to within a Δ-E of less than 5 (human vision can discern color differences down to about a 3 Δ-E).......or an Architect working on a 50 story building that needs 600 sets of powder coated architectural balcony railings that are all the same EXACT color.
Most engineers and architects will specify their basic "colors" in the Munsell color system (which is also mil-spec)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munsell_color_system
.....and when going to powder coat or baked enamel or ceramic "frit"...they have to convert to the RAL system which is used for powder coating, enamels and some plastic sheet casting work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL_colour_standard
If you find a shop that does high end work...they can most likely convert and match. Sadly...most of those probably would not do wheels.
Ray |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17615
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 8:41 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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I just this week had a set of bus rims powder coated. On the wall, they had metal samples hanging of probably 40 different colors. I think they had at least five choices of black. I'm sure you can pick one that comes very close to L91 silver chrome which I think was the color used from 1971-1979 without looking it up. You need to go to the menu bar and look at the paint and upholstery links on the main page if you need. If you're really picky have the rims sand blasted and primed. Then paint them whatever you want.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
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airschooled
Air-Schooled
Joined: April 04, 2012
Posts: 13468
Location: West Coast, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 07, 2017 9:25 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| If you're really picky have the rims sand blasted and primed. Then paint them whatever you want. |
Powder coating makes an EXCELLENT primer too, so if anybody has their rims blasted and coated for rust prevention/looks, and doesn't like the color, a wipe clean and top coat will lay down nicely and last quite a long time.
The Rust-Oleum brushed aluminum rattle can line looks very much like the stock late bay rim color.
Robbie
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 12:39 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Busstom wrote: |
Sorry to bust into semantics, but the factory paint codes are just that - codes for PAINT. Powder coat is completely different, it is not paint. When "How It's Made" refers to powder coating as painting, it is a misnomer.
If you're using a painter, he can mix to achieve the code you desire. If you're using a powder coater, he cannot mix to create your factory color (he can mix them, but thats a crap shoot, not a scientifically calculated formula, like paint is). Unless a powder manufacturer has formulated a color-matched powder to match a given factory code, then all you can do is find the next closest thing.
That said, I had mine done last year, and not only do they look outstanding, but they're very close to the factory color, if not identical. If I recall, the color is called "Chrome," and it's a two-part color: the base, and the clear coat. Without clear-coating, the metallized powder base will oxidize. Your coater should know how to do this properly, although it's a bit pricier. Any bright silver powders should be pretty close, but I'm not so particular.
So you painting, or powdering? |
Actually not quite correct....the powder coating industry DOES have a well established and accurate color specification and mixing system that is used in the INDUSTRIAL and aerospace powder coating and baked enamel industry....and is primarily a DIN based system but used world wide....
....and its also an issue that most general powder coating companies are little guys and do not do much industrial stuff...nor do they desire to spend the required money buy the proper spectrophotometric and lighting inspection booth equipment to properly verify colors.
Understand the need for this....like an aircraft company that has an ISO spec for color of powder coated parts that must be exact to within a Δ-E of less than 5 (human vision can discern color differences down to about a 3 Δ-E).......or an Architect working on a 50 story building that needs 600 sets of powder coated architectural balcony railings that are all the same EXACT color.
Most engineers and architects will specify their basic "colors" in the Munsell color system (which is also mil-spec)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munsell_color_system
.....and when going to powder coat or baked enamel or ceramic "frit"...they have to convert to the RAL system which is used for powder coating, enamels and some plastic sheet casting work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL_colour_standard
If you find a shop that does high end work...they can most likely convert and match. Sadly...most of those probably would not do wheels.
Ray |
Actually, I am correct, and somebody as astute as you should read my posts more carefully. Nobody doubts the science behind the color indices used by powder manufacturers. But you're still not going to find some dude in a shop who's going to stand there and mix you a powder to match some factory color. Link me to one who will, and I'll eat my words.
Nice dissertation, anyway 
Anyhow, here's my powdered wheels in chrome silver. I'll update this post when I hear back from my guy with the manufacturer and official color name.
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17615
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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Thems some fine looking wheels
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23096
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 1:52 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| Busstom wrote: |
| raygreenwood wrote: |
| Busstom wrote: |
Sorry to bust into semantics, but the factory paint codes are just that - codes for PAINT. Powder coat is completely different, it is not paint. When "How It's Made" refers to powder coating as painting, it is a misnomer.
If you're using a painter, he can mix to achieve the code you desire. If you're using a powder coater, he cannot mix to create your factory color (he can mix them, but thats a crap shoot, not a scientifically calculated formula, like paint is). Unless a powder manufacturer has formulated a color-matched powder to match a given factory code, then all you can do is find the next closest thing.
That said, I had mine done last year, and not only do they look outstanding, but they're very close to the factory color, if not identical. If I recall, the color is called "Chrome," and it's a two-part color: the base, and the clear coat. Without clear-coating, the metallized powder base will oxidize. Your coater should know how to do this properly, although it's a bit pricier. Any bright silver powders should be pretty close, but I'm not so particular.
So you painting, or powdering? |
Actually not quite correct....the powder coating industry DOES have a well established and accurate color specification and mixing system that is used in the INDUSTRIAL and aerospace powder coating and baked enamel industry....and is primarily a DIN based system but used world wide....
....and its also an issue that most general powder coating companies are little guys and do not do much industrial stuff...nor do they desire to spend the required money buy the proper spectrophotometric and lighting inspection booth equipment to properly verify colors.
Understand the need for this....like an aircraft company that has an ISO spec for color of powder coated parts that must be exact to within a Δ-E of less than 5 (human vision can discern color differences down to about a 3 Δ-E).......or an Architect working on a 50 story building that needs 600 sets of powder coated architectural balcony railings that are all the same EXACT color.
Most engineers and architects will specify their basic "colors" in the Munsell color system (which is also mil-spec)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Munsell_color_system
.....and when going to powder coat or baked enamel or ceramic "frit"...they have to convert to the RAL system which is used for powder coating, enamels and some plastic sheet casting work.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAL_colour_standard
If you find a shop that does high end work...they can most likely convert and match. Sadly...most of those probably would not do wheels.
Ray |
Actually, I am correct, and somebody as astute as you should read my posts more carefully. Nobody doubts the science behind the color indices used by powder manufacturers. But you're still not going to find some dude in a shop who's going to stand there and mix you a powder to match some factory color. Link me to one who will, and I'll eat my words.
Nice dissertation, anyway
Anyhow, here's my powdered wheels in chrome silver. I'll update this post when I hear back from my guy with the manufacturer and official color name.
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Dude........as I noted in my post....which you skimmed over....you probably wont find the AVERAGE AUTOMOTIVE..... hole in wall powder coating shop.....mixing custom colors for you.....while you DO commonly find this as an everyday function in industrial shops.
You can even do it at home in your garage.....with a scale that goes to 1/100th of a gram and X-rite hand held spectro. The pair will cost you about $3k used....and about $7-10k new.
However......you stated in your post......"if you're using a powder coater he cannot mix them to create your factory color (he can mix them, but thats a crap shoot, not a scientifically calculated formula like paint is)"
.......and that statement is 100% false. It is IDENTICAL to the science of paint mixing, color matching and plastic color control.
Are you aware.....and it seems not:
1. Most MODERN paint, plastic, powder coating and color houses that mix colors all use a spectrophotometer to analyze color crom original ro sample mixes sprayed and dried.
Those spectrophotometers come in a handful of brands.....DuPont spectros are common as are PPG......bit neither of those companies MANUFACTURE those spectros.
2. Over the decades in the US about 90% of those spectros were made by two companies....Gretag-McBeth and X-rite. For the last decade X-rite has owned Gretag-McBeth and make almost all of them for all companies.
3. Except for the most basic "non-color" spectros.....ALL OF THEM have ALL of the software inside for every common color matching system....for every world wide recognized paint, coating and color universe....including RAL for powder coating and baked enamel.
Its all the same system....paint, coatings, enamels, inks, plastics......all the same just different pigment and base densities. Everything can be matched.
An no....I am NOT going to give you the names of my industrial customers who mix powder coating colors custom. How stupid would that be? I have NDA's with all of them 
I'm not going to have people showing up with wheels at their door.
However.....I can tell you one of the houses that several of my customers use for having custom powders mixed when either the batch is too small or large to be reliably mixed on their equipment.
http://www.ifscoatings.com/content/colors/custom-colors/
You can send them a sample of whatever you want.......a physical sample.....not a paint number. Or a powder coat color code.....and they do exist in a HUGE range. If that means sending a wheel in a box...do it. They are used to it. They can match your powder and batch it for you. There are others as well but thats just off the top of my head
Bring that powder to your powder coater and have them apply it.
And....thank you! While I wasn't trying to create a "dissertation".....its nice to know it was good!
Ray |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| aeromech wrote: |
| Thems some fine looking wheels |
Thanks man!
________________________________________________
Ray, I didn't look at your link, but I trust you...I stand corrected!  |
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Tcash
Samba Member
Joined: July 20, 2011
Posts: 12846
Location: San Jose, California, USA
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 2:25 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| You could buy a can of L91 Chrome, spray it out on a piece of metal. Take the swatch to your powder coater and match it up. |
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raygreenwood
Samba Member
Joined: November 24, 2008
Posts: 23096
Location: Oklahoma City
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 4:05 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| Tcash wrote: |
| You could buy a can of L91 Chrome, spray it out on a piece of metal. Take the swatch to your powder coater and match it up. |
Or....if you REALLY want exact factory color powder coating...and do not have the time to shop around to find a powder coating shop that has spectro equipment and the ability to mix within their main powder mixing system.......if have a clean spot on a wheel that is the right color......take that wheel to a MODERN automotive paint shop and have them use their hand held spectro that they use for paint matching.....and set it on the L*a*b* setting (yes it reads just like that)......and read your wheel. The L*C*h* cylindrical CIE color space model may also be in the unit and is a little more accurate on some colors.
All spectros have this setting because Lab is THE universal color space system used world wide for color SPECIFYING.....in all color matching systems. Its actually inside the software of the unit. If they do not know how to get into the Lab setting.....well....thats just sad.....having a $10k tool and only knowing one setting to use.
Have them then read the same spot with a gloss meter. Most have this or have a chip chart that allows them to estimate percentage of gloss. All of this takes ahout 1 minute.
Take the two numbers they give you and e-mail them to the powder mixing house I gave a link to and their software can convert automatically from the L*a*b* coordinates to whatever mixing and tiner powder system they are on. They can then mix your powder. The color will be about 99.9% accurate.
The only final differences in color will be in how is sprayed, texture and anything in the bake that affects gloss.
There is always a charge for color matching. If someone wanted to do this you could defray the costs probably by getting a group buy on a larger batch of powder. Ray |
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hylomatt
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2016
Posts: 378
Location: Florida
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| Posted: Fri Sep 08, 2017 10:26 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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I went to the powder coaters today and was also looking for a RAL code equivalent to L91. I came across two different colors that I thought we were pretty close one was RAL 9006 titled White Aluminum. The other was RAL 9022 titled Pearl silver.
I personally thought the 9006 was a better match for the paint that was on my wheels. The 9022 seemed possible but it was just dark enough and I didn't think that the original color of the wheels would have faded to such a degree.
@busstom, what was the RAL code for that powder coating job in the pictures? That looks really nice. I'm doing my 71 Deluxe bus wheels. I can't quite tell in that picture, but do your wheels have any sparkle to them or are they solid / flat? |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:40 am Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| hylomatt wrote: |
I went to the powder coaters today and was also looking for a RAL code equivalent to L91. I came across two different colors that I thought we were pretty close one was RAL 9006 titled White Aluminum. The other was RAL 9022 titled Pearl silver.
I personally thought the 9006 was a better match for the paint that was on my wheels. The 9022 seemed possible but it was just dark enough and I didn't think that the original color of the wheels would have faded to such a degree.
@busstom, what was the RAL code for that powder coating job in the pictures? That looks really nice. I'm doing my 71 Deluxe bus wheels. I can't quite tell in that picture, but do your wheels have any sparkle to them or are they solid / flat? |
I should be able to get the specs on Monday. They definitely have a sparkle, they look very much like a bright silver metallic with a very fine metallic particle content. And they're shiny because they have a clear coat baked over the top. I think you will like it if you can get it. I'll post back  |
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aeromech
Samba Member
Joined: January 24, 2006
Posts: 17615
Location: San Diego, California
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 12:49 am Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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Can I quickly ask where you got the RA18's and what you paid? Best price I could find in August was on eBay. Four 195's for $440 plus tax delivered.
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Sat Sep 09, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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Sure, I got them through Amazon in February of 2016. I actually ordered RA08's, but as you know, those are replaced by the RA18 Vantra LT. The actual seller was Best Tires Online, and so one thing I was impressed with was, after I ordered, the rep from Best Tires called me at home and said, "Hey, I've got the 08's that you requested, but I've also got the 18's which are replacing them, and I can send you those instead." So I said heck yeah, send 'em.
Anyway, they were $108.45 each, $433.80 total, free shipping. So it sounds like that ebay deal is in line with the market.
And now that I think about it, my invoice showed no tax. Maybe that was before Amazon started collecting taxes to please California? Heck, I can't recall now. |
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Busstom
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2014
Posts: 4579
Location: San Jose, CA
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| Posted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: Re: Stock silver powder coat paint for my '78 Bay |
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| Busstom wrote: |
| hylomatt wrote: |
I went to the powder coaters today and was also looking for a RAL code equivalent to L91. I came across two different colors that I thought we were pretty close one was RAL 9006 titled White Aluminum. The other was RAL 9022 titled Pearl silver.
I personally thought the 9006 was a better match for the paint that was on my wheels. The 9022 seemed possible but it was just dark enough and I didn't think that the original color of the wheels would have faded to such a degree.
@busstom, what was the RAL code for that powder coating job in the pictures? That looks really nice. I'm doing my 71 Deluxe bus wheels. I can't quite tell in that picture, but do your wheels have any sparkle to them or are they solid / flat? |
I should be able to get the specs on Monday. They definitely have a sparkle, they look very much like a bright silver metallic with a very fine metallic particle content. And they're shiny because they have a clear coat baked over the top. I think you will like it if you can get it. I'll post back |
Edit: No RAL code, but this:
Cardinal: CHROME METALLIC 80 GLOSS, T358-GR539
Cardinal: CLEAR 90 GLOSS, T209-CL01
http://www.cardinalpaint.com/powder/color-chart/ |
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