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Anyone know much about Okrasa engines?
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136om528dna
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:33 pm    Post subject: Anyone know much about Okrasa engines? Reply with quote

I'd be interested to hear from people about the Okrasa engines (36bhp).

I'm tempted to opt for the Judson but I don't know anything about the Okrasa's.

Any advise?

Thanks
Tan
Very Happy
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coolairX2
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:34 pm    Post subject: Well a Judson is a much cheaper way to go. Reply with quote

Unless you get lucky and someone with an Okrasa engine doesn't know what he has and sells cheap.

Expect 1k to 1.5k for a complete Judson kit. I have purchased seperate parts for much cheaper. Buy the time I pieced a kit together and got parts made it was about 1k. I consider that a bargian.

Complete Okrasa kits or engines are rare. I purchased a kit about 5 years ago for 3k and put probably another 2k in the rebuild. There is an NOS kit one for sale now from Joe Ruiz for 10k. So there's your price range.
I have seen complete good used Okrasa engines go for 5k in a private sale.

-Craig
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136om528dna
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Well a Judson is a much cheaper way to go. Reply with quote

coolairX2 wrote:
Unless you get lucky and someone with an Okrasa engine doesn't know what he has and sells cheap.

Expect 1k to 1.5k for a complete Judson kit. I have purchased seperate parts for much cheaper. Buy the time I pieced a kit together and got parts made it was about 1k. I consider that a bargian.

Complete Okrasa kits or engines are rare. I purchased a kit about 5 years ago for 3k and put probably another 2k in the rebuild. There is an NOS kit one for sale now from Joe Ruiz for 10k. So there's your price range.
I have seen complete good used Okrasa engines go for 5k in a private sale.

-Craig


Thanks for that Craig.

I've managed to source a couple of Judsons in the Uk for a decent price and I've seen the one that Joe has for sale - I'll not be paying anywhere near the 10K mark, however, I am still interested in hearing more.

With regards to performance, how do they differ?

Thanks again
Regards
Tanya
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coolairX2
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:52 pm    Post subject: Performance of Judson/Okrasa Reply with quote

They did a nice comparison between a Judson and Okrasa a year or two ago in VW Trends. I just installed my Okrasa in my split last weekend so I cannot speak to its performance. But I have had my Judson installed in my Ghia for a few years.

The nice thing about the Judson is that all the performance is noticed off the line. It makes the power band lower and longer. It's effect is not noticed in the higher end. This makes it probably a nicer around town driver. It also flatens the hills which is especially nice in New England which has a lot of second gear hills that can be taken in third with the Judson.

I expect the Okrasa will be a little weaker off the line due to the dual carbs but will put out more ultimate HP than a Judson. I am hoping for about 80 with my setup. The Judson will only pump out 50+- hp. Its probably better suited for open roads highway driving.

The VW trends article backed this up. It showed the torque curve for the Okrasa to be narrow and higher up in the power band. The Judson had a wider flatter torque curve coming on very early.

The Okrasa is a more build and forget engine. The Judson will require more maintenence with keeping the oiler topped and possible bearing and
vane replacement. The Judson is harder on the top end of your engine also with additional ring wear.

-Craig
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 5:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hi Tanya,

Craig is pretty well spot-on with his assessment of Okrasa vs. Judson. The Trends article from a few years ago (written by our good friend D.C.) is on our website should you want to read it:
http://vwjudsonregister.tripod.com/battle_of_the_mouse_motors.htm

As you live in the UK I would recommend The Okrasa Registry http://okrasa.pre67vw.co.uk/

Rob Amos will give you a realistic idea of your chances of getting an Okrasa Kit at an reasonable price.

A Judson Kit is very much more affordable ( and available) but if you are buying one use our recommended restorers: Alejandro Martin ([email protected]) or George Folchi ([email protected]). You will save a lot of money, hassle and fingernails if you use them.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

John, your good friend "DC" had the dubious distinction of being the lowest-powered car to ever (almost didn't) spin the chassis dyno rollers at Barry White's Street Rod repair facility, with his bone-stock, 75,000 original mile, 36 horse, never been apart, 1955 sunroof. I remember being in the dyno area as the pedal masher wrung my poor little car out, and I was praying to Wolfsburg for the 36'er to hang together.. I *think* I made something like 17 horsepower to the rear wheels. The Dyno guys tried for a while not to laugh, but they finally gave in, and guffawed and frolicked and had a great time at my little '55's expense...until the Judson 'vert and the Okrasa Oval rolled onto the dyno... then they quit laughing, or at least, didn't laugh as hard....
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:07 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I'm putting a Mag supercharger on my 36hp okrasa motor... Cool
but it's been a few years in the building. Hopefully this spring I can finally get it on the dyno for some testing.


http://www.amayesing.com/blowers.htm
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:38 am    Post subject: Another thing to remember Reply with quote

If this is for your Ghia you may not have realized that you will have to cut a hole in your decklid and fit a Judson scoop. The Judson will not fit on a Ghia without doing this. Beyond the actual cutting finding a hood scoop is much harder than finding a Judson.

-Craig
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:44 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Tanya,

You've got no shortage of expert advice on this one...all the "Hot 36" gurus are coming out to say hello Very Happy

DCs the guy who's seen it all...and done most of it! and DaveM has the most amazing collection of Vintage Speed Goodies (Gotta check out his website) and "Yikes" Craig knows his stuff.

Me I just know the guys who can.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:45 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

the cutting of the decklid was the sole reason I searched and found the mag supercharger setup.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

(image stolen from http://www.oldspeed.ch/ thanks Francois)
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136om528dna
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:39 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Very Happy Cheers you guys, very informative.

I'll let you know what I decide to do Smile
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:18 am    Post subject: Dave what sort of intake do you have for the blown Okrasa Reply with quote

You must be fabricating something like a dual port center intake? Are you overdriving it to give more boost?

I have heard of a Porsche engine that had dual Judson's one for each bank of cylinders. Now that would have been quite an engine.

-Craig
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:51 am    Post subject: Re: Dave what sort of intake do you have for the blown Okras Reply with quote

coolairX2 wrote:
You must be fabricating something like a dual port center intake? Are you overdriving it to give more boost?

I have heard of a Porsche engine that had dual Judson's one for each bank of cylinders. Now that would have been quite an engine.

-Craig


yes, a special mainifold is being fabricated. I probably wont over drive the blower... not trying to get maximum performance.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I will be putting twin pepco superchargers on my double cab motor... a vintage 2L
http://www.amayesing.com/59dcengine.htm
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