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136om528dna Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2004 Posts: 107 Location: Kernow (Cornwall)
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: Anyone know much about Okrasa engines? |
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I'd be interested to hear from people about the Okrasa engines (36bhp).
I'm tempted to opt for the Judson but I don't know anything about the Okrasa's.
Any advise?
Thanks
Tan
_________________ S.W.K |
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coolairX2 Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2003 Posts: 478
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:34 pm Post subject: Well a Judson is a much cheaper way to go. |
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Unless you get lucky and someone with an Okrasa engine doesn't know what he has and sells cheap.
Expect 1k to 1.5k for a complete Judson kit. I have purchased seperate parts for much cheaper. Buy the time I pieced a kit together and got parts made it was about 1k. I consider that a bargian.
Complete Okrasa kits or engines are rare. I purchased a kit about 5 years ago for 3k and put probably another 2k in the rebuild. There is an NOS kit one for sale now from Joe Ruiz for 10k. So there's your price range.
I have seen complete good used Okrasa engines go for 5k in a private sale.
-Craig |
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136om528dna Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2004 Posts: 107 Location: Kernow (Cornwall)
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 1:37 pm Post subject: Re: Well a Judson is a much cheaper way to go. |
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coolairX2 wrote: |
Unless you get lucky and someone with an Okrasa engine doesn't know what he has and sells cheap.
Expect 1k to 1.5k for a complete Judson kit. I have purchased seperate parts for much cheaper. Buy the time I pieced a kit together and got parts made it was about 1k. I consider that a bargian.
Complete Okrasa kits or engines are rare. I purchased a kit about 5 years ago for 3k and put probably another 2k in the rebuild. There is an NOS kit one for sale now from Joe Ruiz for 10k. So there's your price range.
I have seen complete good used Okrasa engines go for 5k in a private sale.
-Craig |
Thanks for that Craig.
I've managed to source a couple of Judsons in the Uk for a decent price and I've seen the one that Joe has for sale - I'll not be paying anywhere near the 10K mark, however, I am still interested in hearing more.
With regards to performance, how do they differ?
Thanks again
Regards
Tanya _________________ S.W.K |
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coolairX2 Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2003 Posts: 478
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Posted: Tue Feb 08, 2005 3:52 pm Post subject: Performance of Judson/Okrasa |
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They did a nice comparison between a Judson and Okrasa a year or two ago in VW Trends. I just installed my Okrasa in my split last weekend so I cannot speak to its performance. But I have had my Judson installed in my Ghia for a few years.
The nice thing about the Judson is that all the performance is noticed off the line. It makes the power band lower and longer. It's effect is not noticed in the higher end. This makes it probably a nicer around town driver. It also flatens the hills which is especially nice in New England which has a lot of second gear hills that can be taken in third with the Judson.
I expect the Okrasa will be a little weaker off the line due to the dual carbs but will put out more ultimate HP than a Judson. I am hoping for about 80 with my setup. The Judson will only pump out 50+- hp. Its probably better suited for open roads highway driving.
The VW trends article backed this up. It showed the torque curve for the Okrasa to be narrow and higher up in the power band. The Judson had a wider flatter torque curve coming on very early.
The Okrasa is a more build and forget engine. The Judson will require more maintenence with keeping the oiler topped and possible bearing and
vane replacement. The Judson is harder on the top end of your engine also with additional ring wear.
-Craig |
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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13942 Location: Southampton U.K.
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Dave Samba Elder
Joined: July 11, 2002 Posts: 2689 Location: The Forest Moon of Endor, in the Redwoods
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 6:45 am Post subject: |
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John, your good friend "DC" had the dubious distinction of being the lowest-powered car to ever (almost didn't) spin the chassis dyno rollers at Barry White's Street Rod repair facility, with his bone-stock, 75,000 original mile, 36 horse, never been apart, 1955 sunroof. I remember being in the dyno area as the pedal masher wrung my poor little car out, and I was praying to Wolfsburg for the 36'er to hang together.. I *think* I made something like 17 horsepower to the rear wheels. The Dyno guys tried for a while not to laugh, but they finally gave in, and guffawed and frolicked and had a great time at my little '55's expense...until the Judson 'vert and the Okrasa Oval rolled onto the dyno... then they quit laughing, or at least, didn't laugh as hard.... _________________ 2003 Samba Chummie Winner- Best Story
"Those that matter, don't mind,
and those that mind, don't matter" |
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DaveM Mad Samba Scientist
Joined: June 11, 2002 Posts: 3010 Location: Dry side of Oregon
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:07 am Post subject: |
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I'm putting a Mag supercharger on my 36hp okrasa motor...
but it's been a few years in the building. Hopefully this spring I can finally get it on the dyno for some testing.
http://www.amayesing.com/blowers.htm _________________ Sounding like a broken record as to why You should be measuring protein during harvest in order to better your agronomic practices. |
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coolairX2 Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2003 Posts: 478
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:38 am Post subject: Another thing to remember |
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If this is for your Ghia you may not have realized that you will have to cut a hole in your decklid and fit a Judson scoop. The Judson will not fit on a Ghia without doing this. Beyond the actual cutting finding a hood scoop is much harder than finding a Judson.
-Craig |
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John Moxon Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004 Posts: 13942 Location: Southampton U.K.
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DaveM Mad Samba Scientist
Joined: June 11, 2002 Posts: 3010 Location: Dry side of Oregon
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 8:45 am Post subject: |
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the cutting of the decklid was the sole reason I searched and found the mag supercharger setup.
(image stolen from http://www.oldspeed.ch/ thanks Francois) _________________ Sounding like a broken record as to why You should be measuring protein during harvest in order to better your agronomic practices. |
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136om528dna Samba Member
Joined: February 04, 2004 Posts: 107 Location: Kernow (Cornwall)
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 9:39 am Post subject: |
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Cheers you guys, very informative.
I'll let you know what I decide to do _________________ S.W.K |
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coolairX2 Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2003 Posts: 478
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 10:18 am Post subject: Dave what sort of intake do you have for the blown Okrasa |
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You must be fabricating something like a dual port center intake? Are you overdriving it to give more boost?
I have heard of a Porsche engine that had dual Judson's one for each bank of cylinders. Now that would have been quite an engine.
-Craig |
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DaveM Mad Samba Scientist
Joined: June 11, 2002 Posts: 3010 Location: Dry side of Oregon
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Posted: Wed Feb 09, 2005 11:51 am Post subject: Re: Dave what sort of intake do you have for the blown Okras |
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coolairX2 wrote: |
You must be fabricating something like a dual port center intake? Are you overdriving it to give more boost?
I have heard of a Porsche engine that had dual Judson's one for each bank of cylinders. Now that would have been quite an engine.
-Craig |
yes, a special mainifold is being fabricated. I probably wont over drive the blower... not trying to get maximum performance.
I will be putting twin pepco superchargers on my double cab motor... a vintage 2L
http://www.amayesing.com/59dcengine.htm _________________ Sounding like a broken record as to why You should be measuring protein during harvest in order to better your agronomic practices. |
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