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Lind Bjornsen - [email protected]
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gabvwkey
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

gabvwkey wrote:
mightymouse wrote:
crofty wrote:
Tram wrote:


Crofty- if the seller has the money AND the goods, yet is not responding to communications except with basically a "so sad, too bad" FINALLY in this very thread, I might add- what else do you expect the buyer to do? It IS a "last ditch effort"- because nothing else seems to be working! Rolling Eyes

This is a feedback thread- it's not character assassination. Feedback is supposed to be a recounting of how a transaction went down between two Samba members. Nobody is saying that Lind has body odor or has unprotected sex with goats or badgers. People are saying that there's a huge problem with this transaction.

Lind's response of "it just wasn't a priority for me" as a "defense" is really telling. Unless he comes here himself and says otherwise, he's telling the world that he took $3200 from these people and shined them on, but that's OK because the bug "just was not a priority for me".

Yet, on the other hand, this "non- priority" suddenly has an additional $1500 or so bill for additional work that allegedly wasn't discussed or ever even mentioned until the buyer started pressing for delivery in this thread.

Seriously??? And that's OK??? Shocked

Look- I'm no saint- I have my issues as well after two back surgeries and kidney stone ops since 2010. I'm way behind on my work- but that doesn't mean the people waiting on me don't get at least occasional proactive updates and prompt answers back if they Email.

Lind is probably a great guy- but here he looks like a completely unreliable flake! And- this isn't the first time- his problems started years ago on page 1 of this thread.

This is a real mess, and it's a damn shame... but from what I can see, the Garcia brothers didn't create it.

All Lind has to do is refund the money that Misa Garcia paid for goods he's never gotten, OR deliver the goods. It's not that hard.


Have Misa/Gabe (whoever bought the car) made any contact with the local Police Department and/or some actual legal entity? Without trying those venues you are hardly at the end of your rope. While these two are Samba members BUT it is my understanding that the transaction had nothing to do with the Samba to begin with. I understand the frustration but there are more productive avenues to try to recoup your losses. That’s all I’m saying.

He’s (Lind) actually not telling anyone anything. Were I in either of their positions the last thing I’d do would be to comment in a thread like this. Misa bought the car but he’s having his brother post the majority of the story/replies and people who had nothing to do with the transaction are making comments about it and it can get out of hand real fast.


Youre missing the point man.

This is a "community" of good people. we cant trust each other...who can we trust?
The cops dont give 2 shits. They will go and ask questions and take statements and nothing will come of it.

So while i agree this thread may not be the absolute best way of coming to a resolution, its pretty damn close to as good as it gets.
Gabe was prob hoping in the beginning that one of linds friends would contact him and go.. dude... cmon man. Handle this BS and put it behind you.
Thats what i would hope for.

BUT you cant control people or the internet, so this thread has become a place for others to let off some steam. Some who may have never said anything as they may have viewed their personal event as trivial.
This helps anyone else in the future to make a decision to enter into any sort of agreement with the person the thread is about.
Its NOT meant for anyone to judge those who have been wronged.


That was the idea, but that did not happened as Lind is not even answering to those a bit closer to him!
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crofty
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:16 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

mightymouse wrote:


Youre missing the point man.

This is a "community" of good people. If we cant trust each other...who can we trust?
The cops dont give 2 shits. They will go and ask questions and take statements and nothing will come of it.

It’s a community of people. There are plenty of people in this scene that are far from trustworthy and they have HUGE followings and even businesses, so go figure. It’s naive to think that people who share your likes are inherently good. But I digress…
mightymouse wrote:

So while i agree this thread may not be the absolute best way of coming to a resolution, its pretty damn close to as good as it gets.

I’m not sure what planet you are from Dave, but I would rather have a legal judgment against someone than a 5 page printout of one sided stories about how I was wronged (no matter how true). Let me know when you can cash that story in online for some restitution.
mightymouse wrote:

Gabe was prob hoping in the beginning that one of linds friends would contact him and go.. dude... cmon man. Handle this BS and put it behind you.
Thats what i would hope for.

Totally, I’m sure they have. How did that work out?
mightymouse wrote:

BUT you cant control people or the internet, so this thread has become a place for others to let off some steam. Some who may have never said anything as they may have viewed their personal event as trivial.
This helps anyone else in the future to make a decision to enter into any sort of agreement with the person the thread is about.
Its NOT meant for anyone to judge those who have been wronged.


Just to be clear, I’m NOT picking sides at all here BUT whenever I read feedback threads I also consider the source. I doubt I’m the only one that does that so there is judgment to both sides in this forum.
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crofty
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:


So what does that mean?



gabvwkey wrote:
[

The road to from Rancho Cucamonga to Boise Idaho is short, and I know where his shop is (as I been there) and I also have his home address now, thanks to one of his buddies, I have receive about 15 PM's from mutual friends offering advice and such, .

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Last edited by crofty on Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total
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mightymouse
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:21 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crofty wrote:
mightymouse wrote:


Youre missing the point man.

This is a "community" of good people. If we cant trust each other...who can we trust?
The cops dont give 2 shits. They will go and ask questions and take statements and nothing will come of it.

It’s a community of people. There are plenty of people in this scene that are far from trustworthy and they have HUGE followings and even businesses, so go figure. It’s naive to think that people who share your likes are inherently good. But I digress…
mightymouse wrote:

So while i agree this thread may not be the absolute best way of coming to a resolution, its pretty damn close to as good as it gets.

I’m not sure what planet you are from Dave, but I would rather have a legal judgment against someone than a 5 page printout of one sided stories about how I was wronged (no matter how true). Let me know when you can cash that story in online for some restitution.
mightymouse wrote:

Gabe was prob hoping in the beginning that one of linds friends would contact him and go.. dude... cmon man. Handle this BS and put it behind you.
Thats what i would hope for.

Totally, I’m sure they have. How did that work out?
mightymouse wrote:

BUT you cant control people or the internet, so this thread has become a place for others to let off some steam. Some who may have never said anything as they may have viewed their personal event as trivial.
This helps anyone else in the future to make a decision to enter into any sort of agreement with the person the thread is about.
Its NOT meant for anyone to judge those who have been wronged.


Just to be clear, I’m NOT picking sides at all here BUT whenever I read feedback threads I also consider the source. I doubt I’m the only one that does that so there is judgment to both sides in this forum.


The only issue i see is, and you already know this fact... is that even with a lawful judgement on your side they dont ever enforce it.
Its a bullshit system.
So they may waste 2 more years and money on litigation yet never get the car or the money? WTF is that?

SO you handle it yourself. Wink
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Tram
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

crofty wrote:
Tram wrote:


So what does that mean?



gabvwkey wrote:
[

The road to from Rancho Cucamonga to Boise Idaho is short, and I know where his shop is (as I been there) and I also have his home address now, thanks to one of his buddies, I have receive about 15 PM's from mutual friends offering advice and such, .


So he gets there and no one's around. Then what?

Plus, like I said, even if they get a judgment, in Idaho, a judgment is worth about as much as the paper it's written on. I had a shop in Sun Valley and then Ketchum for many years, and, like I said earlier- the court will tell you right upfront "We're not a collection agency".

As far as getting the cops there involved... Good luck with that. I couldn't even get any action on a car that I had sold "on time" that I had the payment agreement for and the title to... and it was a lot more money that what the Garcias are talking about. My only option was to have the Sheriff sieze the car and then have them put it up for auction with no reserve. They WOULD NOT back me even though I had the unencumbered title and registration in my name only. Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:45 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I kind of thought it was a decent thing for the buyer to come in here before resorting to the law or "showing up" (whatever that actually means).

No other forms of contact seemed to produce results, right? So before pulling the trigger on legal-type action - which can get complicated - why not try the court of public opinion first? It has worked before.

I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the argument that the buyer is out of line. And frankly, this has turned out to be one way of getting information: by the way Lind has refused to handle this, I think we all know a lot more about him now than we ever really wanted to know.

Maybe he's going through a rough time? OK. Then it should be easy enough for Lind to just say so and ask for some help - there are more than enough people here willing to give it. Or a least that used to be the case before he allowed this thing to escalate.

As to the "showing up" thing: how is that supposed to work, exactly? Guns blazing? Camp out at his house? Maybe that works in some people's imagination, but its nothing I'd want to risk time off work and gas money on.

Lind: if you don't have the money these people paid you anymore, I think its time to man up and let one of those campers go. Or at least work with the buyer to broker the sale of the bug (if that is even possible). Anything proactive, as opposed to what you are doing now, would be extremely helpful. Every minute you wait just makes it worse.

But you don't get to keep the car, keep the money, issue ultimatums and not deal. That isn't the way it works.

 
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gabvwkey
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meyer wrote:
I kind of thought it was a decent thing for the buyer to come in here before resorting to the law or "showing up" (whatever that actually means).

No other forms of contact seemed to produce results, right? So before pulling the trigger on legal-type action - which can get complicated - why not try the court of public opinion first? It has worked before.

I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the argument that the buyer is out of line. And frankly, this has turned out to be one way of getting information: by the way Lind has refused to handle this, I think we all know a lot more about him now than we ever really wanted to know.

Maybe he's going through a rough time? OK. Then it should be easy enough for Lind to just say so and ask for some help - there are more than enough people here willing to give it. Or a least that used to be the case before he allowed this thing to escalate.

As to the "showing up" thing: how is that supposed to work, exactly? Guns blazing? Camp out at his house? Maybe that works in some people's imagination, but its nothing I'd want to risk time off work and gas money on.

Lind: if you don't have the money these people paid you anymore, I think its time to man up and let one of those campers go. Or at least work with the buyer to broker the sale of the bug (if that is even possible). Anything proactive, as opposed to what you are doing now, would be extremely helpful. Every minute you wait just makes it worse.

But you don't get to keep the car, keep the money, issue ultimatums and not deal. That isn't the way it works.

 


Well said!
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all the have is the court of public opinion. They have no title and just some emails back and forth, like that makes a legal case. I think it would be hard for them to even establish ownership or exchange of money as nothing was formalized. A few good lessons to be learned here by others when dealing with "buddies." They have done the worst damage they can by starting this thread. I'm not taking anyone's side because who knows what all the facts are, but they are effectively painting a pretty bad picture of Lind.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 4:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Braukuche wrote:
I think all the have is the court of public opinion. They have no title and just some emails back and forth, like that makes a legal case. I think it would be hard for them to even establish ownership or exchange of money as nothing was formalized. A few good lessons to be learned here by others when dealing with "buddies." They have done the worst damage they can by starting this thread. I'm not taking anyone's side because who knows what all the facts are, but they are effectively painting a pretty bad picture of Lind.


You are wrong about this, Lind is painting a pretty bad picture of himself by ignoring us and letting this issue as long as it has, we posted the only information we have about the transaction, if Lind has any other emails that contradict what we posted, or the so called "blackmail" he's accusing us of, that would be helpful to him, unfortunately for him he doesn't have any!
It wasn't the intention of myself, Jehu, or Misa to just descredit Lind just for the heck of it, WE are just trying to recuperate Misa's $3200 simple as that.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 5:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

judgements are a double edged sword. the first cut(only a flesh wound) the judgement says that the defendant owes the plaintiff the money. the second cut (you'd rather have herpes) it also goes directly onto the defendants credit report. it will severely damage ones credit even if it's paid immediately. insurance companies look at credit reports. it can cost a person way more money in the long run to have a judgement against you than it would have to just hand the person the money. wanna buy a car? wanna buy a house? want a loan? want a credit card? need insurance? want to rent an apartment? you are fucked.

it's a bitter pill to swallow but even in situations where you know you're right, the easiest way out is just to hand over the money, take the loss, whatever the case may be and move on.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 7:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UZI wrote:
judgements are a double edged sword. the first cut(only a flesh wound) the judgement says that the defendant owes the plaintiff the money. the second cut (you'd rather have herpes) it also goes directly onto the defendants credit report. it will severely damage ones credit even if it's paid immediately. insurance companies look at credit reports. it can cost a person way more money in the long run to have a judgement against you than it would have to just hand the person the money. wanna buy a car? wanna buy a house? want a loan? want a credit card? need insurance? want to rent an apartment? you are fucked.

it's a bitter pill to swallow but even in situations where you know you're right, the easiest way out is just to hand over the money, take the loss, whatever the case may be and move on.

A valid point worth considering.
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crofty
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

UZI wrote:
judgements are a double edged sword. the first cut(only a flesh wound) the judgement says that the defendant owes the plaintiff the money. the second cut (you'd rather have herpes) it also goes directly onto the defendants credit report. it will severely damage ones credit even if it's paid immediately. insurance companies look at credit reports. it can cost a person way more money in the long run to have a judgement against you than it would have to just hand the person the money. wanna buy a car? wanna buy a house? want a loan? want a credit card? need insurance? want to rent an apartment? you are fucked.

it's a bitter pill to swallow but even in situations where you know you're right, the easiest way out is just to hand over the money, take the loss, whatever the case may be and move on.


Exactly my point about getting a legal judgment and not going back and forth over the internet.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 8:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Meyer wrote:
I kind of thought it was a decent thing for the buyer to come in here before resorting to the law or "showing up" (whatever that actually means).

No other forms of contact seemed to produce results, right? So before pulling the trigger on legal-type action - which can get complicated - why not try the court of public opinion first? It has worked before.

I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the argument that the buyer is out of line. And frankly, this has turned out to be one way of getting information: by the way Lind has refused to handle this, I think we all know a lot more about him now than we ever really wanted to know.

 


In 4+ pages of posts only 1 post was made by Lind. If the seller has ignored you for a year and continues to do so, the almighty court of public opinion can't make a judgment worth anything to the buyers other than saying "that sucks". "That sucks" doesn't fill an empty checking account.

No one has said the buyers are out of line only that they would be better served trying an actual court for some type of resolution for a situation that has clearly gone on too long. I don't see how that is hard to grasp for the others reading this thread.

Meyer wrote:


As to the "showing up" thing: how is that supposed to work, exactly? Guns blazing? Camp out at his house? Maybe that works in some people's imagination, but its nothing I'd want to risk time off work and gas money on.


So outing someone on a public forum is more important to you than trying to get your $3200.00 back? I don't have a comment for that...
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 19, 2013 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think all of you are right, It is obvious that Lind is not concerned with the amount of negative feedback on this thread or the amount of posts or peers commenting on here.

Its also clear that Lind used to value his reputation here on thesamba as he used to spend a lot of time commenting on almost every thread, so we were hoping stiring things up here would make him react but its now obvious that it didnt work and you guys are right, Its Time to take Legal action. We appreciate all the advice all of you have given so far and I would like to thank in advanced all the Legal advice many of you will continue to give us.

Misa is currently too busy to deal with this, and even though Misa shook hands with Lind and wrote the check, The check was from my company so I dont see why I shouldn't be able to Sue Lind myself.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

crofty wrote:
Meyer wrote:
I kind of thought it was a decent thing for the buyer to come in here before resorting to the law or "showing up" (whatever that actually means).

No other forms of contact seemed to produce results, right? So before pulling the trigger on legal-type action - which can get complicated - why not try the court of public opinion first? It has worked before.

I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the argument that the buyer is out of line. And frankly, this has turned out to be one way of getting information: by the way Lind has refused to handle this, I think we all know a lot more about him now than we ever really wanted to know.

 


In 4+ pages of posts only 1 post was made by Lind. If the seller has ignored you for a year and continues to do so, the almighty court of public opinion can't make a judgment worth anything to the buyers other than saying "that sucks". "That sucks" doesn't fill an empty checking account.

No one has said the buyers are out of line only that they would be better served trying an actual court for some type of resolution for a situation that has clearly gone on too long. I don't see how that is hard to grasp for the others reading this thread.

Meyer wrote:


As to the "showing up" thing: how is that supposed to work, exactly? Guns blazing? Camp out at his house? Maybe that works in some people's imagination, but its nothing I'd want to risk time off work and gas money on.


So outing someone on a public forum is more important to you than trying to get your $3200.00 back? I don't have a comment for that...


Nowhere did I ever say that taking it to the next level wasn't an option. I just don't blame the buyer for trying this first. Or basically what jehugarcia just said up there.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 8:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Tram wrote:
Meyer wrote:
crofty wrote:
Meyer wrote:
I kind of thought it was a decent thing for the buyer to come in here before resorting to the law or "showing up" (whatever that actually means).

No other forms of contact seemed to produce results, right? So before pulling the trigger on legal-type action - which can get complicated - why not try the court of public opinion first? It has worked before.

I'm sorry, I'm just not buying the argument that the buyer is out of line. And frankly, this has turned out to be one way of getting information: by the way Lind has refused to handle this, I think we all know a lot more about him now than we ever really wanted to know.

 


In 4+ pages of posts only 1 post was made by Lind. If the seller has ignored you for a year and continues to do so, the almighty court of public opinion can't make a judgment worth anything to the buyers other than saying "that sucks". "That sucks" doesn't fill an empty checking account.

No one has said the buyers are out of line only that they would be better served trying an actual court for some type of resolution for a situation that has clearly gone on too long. I don't see how that is hard to grasp for the others reading this thread.

Meyer wrote:


As to the "showing up" thing: how is that supposed to work, exactly? Guns blazing? Camp out at his house? Maybe that works in some people's imagination, but its nothing I'd want to risk time off work and gas money on.


So outing someone on a public forum is more important to you than trying to get your $3200.00 back? I don't have a comment for that...


Nowhere did I ever say that taking it to the next level wasn't an option. I just don't blame the buyer for trying this first. Or basically what jehugarcia just said up there.


I think crofty just finds it impossible to believe that Lind would ever do such a thing.

Hell, I'm finding it really hard to believe, myself. It just defies all common sense and decency.


Well yeah. Me too. Its been around ten years since I met Lind, but I thought he was a decent, thoughtful guy. I never in a million years would have seen this coming.

 
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 10:47 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This could be easily solved with a face to face meeting with the buyer and seller acting like grown folks.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:05 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The simple answer is for Lind to privately make arrangements to settle this exchange in a fair way that everyone agrees to....

Then Post on here that the situation has been resolved (after the deal is finally settled).

Describing the terms of the settlement on here is optional.

I believe the buyer has been fair, trusting, and patient... And at least deserves an explanation of what steps are being made to resolve this.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 11:52 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Lind wrote:
first off, I hate arguing on the internet, as it is just a headache for all involved.

second, I have been really slow on this. the beetle was not my main priority, and I had other things that have been more important to me at the time. that is my fault, and I am sorry.

basically, what gabriel has told me is that since I have taken so long, I have to give away all my labor so far, and deliver the car to them for free or they will trash me on this forum. so I have the choice of being blackmailed for a couple grand, or dealing with this. I don't know which is worse. I was willing to give (and still am) a steep discount on the number of hours I have into the car due to the untimelyness of the whole thing, but that isn't enough.

I didn't sell the car on thesamba, but this is where they blackmail me...

they are welcome to pay their bill and come get the car, or have it shipped. I will not give up all my labor and investment to this point for free. sorry.


Jumping to conclusions? Seems pretty cut and dried between this, and gabvwkey's posts that this dude has NO intention on doing the right thing. If posts/communications come up that suggest otherwise, I will retract this statement and acknowledge the proper action, but in the meantime, by all appearances, this Lind guy not only took money for work performed on the car, BUT also for the purchase price of the car... which was never delivered. How is that not thievery in the most fundamental sense?
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Spezialist
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Joined: July 01, 2005
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 20, 2013 12:19 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The issue in my opinion is this, Community.
Since to me it's fairly obvious that the buyers didn't make a written contract with the seller they have no legal standing in court.
Both parties know this, Lind is using it as leverage at this point.
By not being part of the argument he effectively offers no evidence that thread may produce.
Buyers made a decision based on community to trust seller, thereby trusting community.
Too bad it comes to this.
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