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Ragman The Sambinator
Joined: July 18, 2003 Posts: 3517 Location: Denver
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: Kadron vs Weber |
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I know these questions are asked alot, and I'm sorry if it's a repost, but I really didn't see anyone this question specifically.
I have a 1776 engine in my 66 bus. The engine is very much stock except for the larger pistons/cylinders. I want to add dual carbs for some extra power, and I was thinking about adding Kadrons since they are a **cheaper** option. But, after looking at all the "hidden" costs with Kadrons, I am thinking a pair of Weber 40's might be better.
Kadron kit from AJ -> $399
Scat Linkage -> $39
Tap for Vaccum dist -> $40
SVDA from AJ -> $139
Total cost for kadrons at $617 doesn't seem very cheap anymore when I can get a set of Weber 40's for $675, and I already have a 009 to run with the Webers.
So, $617 Kadrons vs $675 Webers, is the question. I'm thinking the Weber 40's would be better in the long run.
What do you all think? |
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marklaken Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2004 Posts: 2416 Location: fort collins, CO
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:26 am Post subject: |
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if your in the 600 ballpark, why not also consider baby dellortos?....
also, alot of people run the 009 with kadrons, so that kadron price of yours is not quite accurate...you should add the SVDA dizzy cost and tap cost to the webbers if you want to consider apples to apples...
i bought aircooled net's svda and was very impressed (with a 34pict3carb)...i'd take the kadrons with the svda dizzy over the webbers/009....i think a quality dizzy is more important than quality carbs for driveability... _________________ Wish List:
1967 Wesfalia SO-42 Parts Needed: Kitchenette, Cot Poles
'65 rear left beetle fender
15" Bus Wheels in fair condition
Mark Laken
Fort Collins, CO |
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Ragman The Sambinator
Joined: July 18, 2003 Posts: 3517 Location: Denver
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 11:56 am Post subject: |
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Mark- thanks for your replies. Here's some more thoughts...
marklaken wrote: |
if your in the 600 ballpark, why not also consider baby dellortos?.... |
I don't know why, maybe I should think about them too.
marklaken wrote: |
also, alot of people run the 009 with kadrons, so that kadron price of yours is not quite accurate...you should add the SVDA dizzy cost and tap cost to the webbers if you want to consider apples to apples... |
I've not heard of people tapping the webers and running SVDA's. Are people running that combo? I have definately heard that the kadrons run like crap with mechanical advance distributors more so than the webers. On my bug, I have weber 40's and a 009, and it runs really good.
marklaken wrote: |
i bought aircooled net's svda and was very impressed (with a 34pict3carb)...i'd take the kadrons with the svda dizzy over the webbers/009....i think a quality dizzy is more important than quality carbs for driveability... |
How are you running a SVDA with a 34pic3 carb which has two vaccum ports? Isn't the 34pic3 supposed to work best with the stock two vaccum dist? |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Generally what you have to do is just plug the vacuum retard port at the carb with the SVDA and all will be fine.
The webers also run better with a SVDA. |
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Rome Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2004 Posts: 9601 Location: Pearl River, NY
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 2:29 pm Post subject: |
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Ragman, I've run several Kad's with 009 and the stock linkage in the past few years and they run "fine". I've also run a set with the 009 and the Scat linkage and they run fine too. The Scat is a "better" linkage than the stock Kad, but if you have a NEW stock Kad linkage, it "can" work fine too. With a stock Kad linkage, one major factor to making it work/adjust right is the ball ends have to be new and not worn.
Have not made the jump to an SVDA yet.
The Weber 40IDFs that I have are already tapped for vacuum, if I recall. One of the small brass tubes near the base of the carb. If you don't use the vacuum port, it needs to be sealed off with a tight-fitting rubber cap.
What kind of linkage does the proposed Weber 40 IDF kit come with? Quite important for the overall running of the setup. Also make sure that you get the smaller venturies (28mm) for your stock-valve 1776 on the Webers. I think you'll get at least as good fuel mileage with the Webers compared to the Kads using the same type of distrib.
Baby Dell's (known formally as Dell'Orto 34 FRD) have not been made or several years. You'd have to find a good used set, and such a set would certainly not be worth $600; more like in the $200's. Dell'Orto's also made dual-throat carbs called "DRLA" for their down-draft design. Those have also not been made for a while, and used complete sets (add a pair of rebuild gasket kits) can range from $300 to over $500. They came in the sizes 36, 40, 45, 48 DRLA. A pair of 36 or 40 would be fine for your 1776, but once again you must get the right venturie. A 30mm venturie would work well. |
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drago Samba Member
Joined: August 17, 2004 Posts: 58 Location: Australia
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Posted: Wed Feb 16, 2005 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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Hi ragman
My experience with Kads is very limited other than what I have read and seen. I have a heap of experience with webers on engines other than VW's particularly with rally car race engines.
Webers in my opinion are the best carb built and are made to a very high quality that last for years and are totally rebuildable when they get old. The castings are top quality and as long as the jetting is right they are spot on.
If you compare them with a set of Kadrons the Kads dont seem to be any where near the quality of the webers and that is probably reinforced when AJ Sims says that he checks every set of kads and any parts that are faulty are swapped. You would rarely hear of that happening with a set of webers.
So Carb v carb I would go for the webers. Plus I reckon they look cooler and are thought of as more upmarket than the kads for resale later on.
From a VW performance viewpoint it seems that they are much of a muchness once the kads have been worked on by someone who knows what they are doing.
Aircooled.net have good quality weber intakes/air cleaners/linkage kit for about $120 on special.
I reckon go with the webers. Not that the kads wouldnt work
cheers drago |
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marklaken Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2004 Posts: 2416 Location: fort collins, CO
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Randy in Maine wrote: |
Generally what you have to do is just plug the vacuum retard port at the carb with the SVDA and all will be fine.
The webers also run better with a SVDA. |
yep...what he said...i am very happy with the combo (34pict3 and svda on a stock 1600cc dp with stock exhaust), but i have a pair of old kads lying around that have recently been calling my name...they need a total rebuild though...
i also had a pair of webber 40's (bought new) that i used to replace a PO's crappy solex carb on a 2.0L FI bus....i was not impressed...pawned them off on mike H. (who was not impressed either)...i honestly think they were cursed... _________________ Wish List:
1967 Wesfalia SO-42 Parts Needed: Kitchenette, Cot Poles
'65 rear left beetle fender
15" Bus Wheels in fair condition
Mark Laken
Fort Collins, CO |
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bugntjw Rants Lurker
Joined: February 11, 2004 Posts: 698 Location: Purgatory
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Posted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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How about CBs carbs with the dual chokes? Anyone running these? What do you think? Price seems good with carbs and linkage for $300
http://www.cbperformance.com/catalog.asp?ProductID=1180 _________________ A good friend will come and bail you out of jail...but, a true friend will be sitting next to you saying, "Wow...that was fun!"
Duct tape is like 'The Force'. It has a light side and a dark side, and it holds the universe together. |
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Ace Samba Member
Joined: July 07, 2003 Posts: 1903
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Posted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:36 am Post subject: |
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The Solex PDSITs were used on type IIIs in the late 60s and performed well. THese are the same carbs with aluminum manifolds. I used a set for years coupled with a 010 dizzy and ran like a top. A set of Kads will give you a little more top end though. |
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vwfan65 Samba Member
Joined: December 29, 2004 Posts: 134 Location: fort worth TX
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 8:01 am Post subject: |
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I have heard that the CB dual solex 34 is absolutely awesome. I haven't personally run them, but a few of the top big drag gurus in my region can't say enough good about them for mild performance. That would be my ideal setup. |
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veedubcrazy Samba Member
Joined: February 14, 2005 Posts: 2130 Location: La Porte, Tx.
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 9:46 am Post subject: |
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if it were me, i would go with the weber 40's. at least the venturis are easy to get to as well as the jets. ac.net sold me a great set of 44's and i love them. set them up for me as well. Dave. :2gunfire: _________________ 1967 Deluxe Sedan |
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UncleBob Grease Midget
Joined: August 21, 2002 Posts: 2862 Location: Northeast Florida
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Quality wise, Kadrons can't hold a candle to Webers, IMO.
I vote for the Webers, hands down, no contest. _________________ OG JHC
don't worry, the ciggaret is fake. |
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Brad M Samba Member
Joined: April 12, 2004 Posts: 280 Location: Belmont NC
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Posted: Fri Jul 22, 2005 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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I'm running the CB Dual 34's on my 1600 in the Beetle an it adds some nice pep to a stock motor with stock style stainless exhaust. But for my 2010 I will be running dual Webber 40 IDF's. I think each of these carburetors have their place in the vast VW world and most of them cross over and can be used for may applications. I had found a nice chart on a German site that covered the applications of different carburetors and placed it in a post I made when I installed my dual 34's but the site has moved and while typing this post it took me an hour to find the new location of the chart on the flat4.de webpage but here is the url to the page the chart is on http://www.flat4.de/zcarb.htm Translated http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl...f%26sa%3DG and here is the chart According to it the Webber 40 IDF's are to small for my 2010 but it's going in a Double Cab and I want it for torque and reliability not to blow the doors off of the guy in the next lane. I hope the chart helps and the length of time it took me to find it excuses my ramblings. _________________ Brad
61 Double Cab (Sold 8/7/10)
74 Standard Beetle |
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