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Got Burnt by JORDON CYR / VW ADDICT / parts4yourvw
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Envious
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 17, 2005 10:29 pm    Post subject: Got Burnt by JORDON CYR / VW ADDICT / parts4yourvw Reply with quote

I emailed Jordan about a pair of used bias ply white wall tires. Looking at the photos in the ad I had some concerns about the side walls. They looked to be either dirty or cracked (dried out). They are used so I'm not expecting perfect tread by any stretch but I'm not interested at all if they're cracked. In my email I asked straight up in my first sentence "Are they just dirty in the pictures or are the side walls cracked and stained?" fair enough question for used tires. His response was "Just dirt, in the garage, sorry. No cracks"

Since the tires were not checked, I asked for a quote on shipping. First quote came back at $80 so I passed. He then came back with "Tell you what. I will box them and bring them to the PO Tue. I will see what happens and get a exact quote. followed by "I found out some good news. I can ship it for $45.86."

I agreed and the deal is done.

The tires showed up today. Shipping was only $29 and this is how they looked.

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Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Jordan's response when I emailed him

Quote:
I dont see where they are cracked. They were not cracked - if they are at all they must have been slightly cracked, any tires 30 years old that was once on a vehicle even for a day would show minor signs. I guess I am not nitpicky. They are not cracked visabily extremely noticablly

Quote:
they are HIGHLY useable tires

Quote:
>>We must have different definitions of cracks. Cracks to me, no good, leak air. Then there are weather veins - where tires of its life start to have lines and shit. Anyway - Good luck. There is nothing else I can tell you. I never lied


When I asked him about shipping:
Quote:
I had to bos(x) it, paypal fees, materials. I had to make my own
box for that, thanks for noticing.

HE TAPED THE TWO TIRES TOGETHER WITH DUCT TAPE There wasn't a box made by him or anyone else. He took $11 for paypal fees and duct tape which wasn't part of the deal. If he had asked me for it up front, we could have worked it into the deal. He just added it after the fact when I bitched about being overcharged.

Sorry for the long post but I hate getting screwed over $70. He offered me $20 or to refund the entire amount of the tires but said I have pay to ship them back. Not going to happen. He's since stopped replying to my emails.

If I hadn't specifically asked in my first email if they were cracked or not, I'd have nothing to complain about for $30 used tires other than over charging shipping by $11 and making up bs excuses to justify it.

[email protected]
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Last edited by Envious on Sat Feb 19, 2005 3:52 pm; edited 3 times in total
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 12:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Those tires are garbage, they should be in the trash.

I would like to know how he shipped 2 tires to Canada for $29?

Jordan, your rep is getting worse every day. You need to take care of these problems or stop selling on the site.

Quote:
Any tires 30 years old that was once on a vehicle even for a day would show minor signs

False. I have several 40+ year old used Continentals that are damn near perfect.
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VW Addict Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:18 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

1.) I don't think those are my tires. I sold him white walls.
2.) Offered buyer complete refund, refused.
3.) I shipped them USPS, where did $29 come in?
4.) I wouldn't have sold him no good tires, I would have thrown them away. I sold some tires that were WHITEWALLS that were in pretty decent shape and the buyer knew what he was getting for $30 pair of 1970's tires. He expected them to be as good as his $1000.00 pair of tires he was telling me about in emails earlier.
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Gary
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have been following the many sprouting threads of VW Addict and have made the following observations:

1) He has had more positive feedback than negative
2) His detractors have made assumptions rather than pushing for clarification of the product, whereby they feel cheated
3) One party complained about his dealings at one time, got it resolved, only to order again and post ANOTHER complaint

This last dealing should be easy to resolve if Addict can provide photographs of what was shipped.

My advice for Addict is to suspend all sales on this site for at least a month. Perhaps resuming in April when he has cleared out all of the "bad" and had time to evaluate where to begin selling again. Some of these complaints seem to be sprouting just to the sake of sprouting. If Addict is right, and the last buyer refused a refund, then IMHO the complainer has zero grounds for recourse.
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Envious
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:16 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I can't believe you won't admit you're wrong. I have prove these are the tires you sent me??? OK here we go.

Quote:
1.) I don't think those are my tires. I sold him white walls.

The other side of the tires are black walls.
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Quote:
2.) Offered buyer complete refund, refused.

You did offer a complete refund at one point but I was going to have to pay for shipping them back. In honesty, I mentioned this in my original thread but I told you I'm not willing to pay to ship them back. It's your fault, you should cover that cost, not me. I even offered to pay half of the return shipping, remember? I said "Hell, I'll half return shipping to make this go away"

Quote:
3.) I shipped them USPS, where did $29 come in?

From the label. Sorry $29.90.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Quote:
4.) I wouldn't have sold him no good tires, I would have thrown them away. I sold some tires that were WHITEWALLS that were in pretty decent shape and the buyer knew what he was getting for $30 pair of 1970's tires. He expected them to be as good as his $1000.00 pair of tires he was telling me about in emails earlier.

Here's what I actually said.
"I know old tires aren't perfect and I wasn't looking for perfect. You stated tread wear in your ad so I knew these weren't NOS. For $20 each I wasn't expecting perfect. On my 64 vert I paid $1000 for 5 NOS wide whitewalls. I know what they're worth."


You just plain sold them under false pretences. You lied when you replied to my very first email.

I like the handmade box I paid for too Wink
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Last edited by Envious on Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:22 am; edited 1 time in total
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Gary
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:21 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, the proof appears to be in the pudding; however, I've never understood why anyone would buy used tires. I guess I'm funny that way Confused
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Envious
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 6:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Icy,

Thanks for your input. I agree with you on all points. Your second point is exactly where I stand though.
Quote:
His detractors have made assumptions rather than pushing for clarification of the product, whereby they feel cheated

I asked him straight up because the photos on the ad needed clarification. I asked if they were cracked, he said no. That's why I'm pursuing this at all. I haven't complained that the treads are shot because I didn't clarify that before purchase. My only criteria was, were they cracked.

Ya, I know. Used tires are a strange purchase but something like a period bias ply whitewall can really set off the right car. Only 1 of my 4 cars is rolling on used/old tires but it works. The car is unrestored and unmolested. The vintage tires really finish the car better than a set of new radials would. I tube them all for saftey.
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Tram
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 11:03 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jordan, I almost choked on my coffee over the "Not my tires, I sold him whitewalls" line. To my knowledge, they NEVER made a tire that was whitewall on both sides! Freakin' come on! Laughing You sold SCRAP and were gambling that Envious wouldn't know it. You need to tweak your business model a little, my friend. Look, you're only human, and humans can make mistakes. I've done it on eBay more than once, and I made it good INCLUDING ALL SHIPPING when I did. It will ALWAYS cost you more to argue than it will to make it right in the long run. I agree with Icy. You need to back off and take care of your problems. I'm sure you're not really a totally bad seller, but unfortunately COMPLAINTS are always going to be louder than COMPLIMENTS, but every complaint presents an opportunity to be turned into a compliment. It's up to you now. As Will Rogers said: If you find yourself in a hole, STOP DIGGING."
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Larry Hull
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

How many sellers give items away for free like Jordan has many times? I suppose the next problem for Jordan will be some person will receive somthing for free and bitch because the cost of shipping was to high.
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Envious
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 5:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
How many sellers give items away for free like Jordan has many times? I suppose the next problem for Jordan will be some person will receive somthing for free and bitch because the cost of shipping was to high.

I'm not really concerned about how much he has given to other people for free. I didn't ask for them for free. To be honest, I didn't even try to bicker his asking price down at all. I gave him what he asked for. I started this thread because he lied and ripped me off.

You'll notice Jordan hasn't had a lot to say about this. After I shot down his rediculas list he kinda just went away. The same way he stopped responding to my emails.

Thanks for the reply Larry.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 7:58 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Envious wrote:
Quote:
How many sellers give items away for free like Jordan has many times? I suppose the next problem for Jordan will be some person will receive somthing for free and bitch because the cost of shipping was to high.

I'm not really concerned about how much he has given to other people for free. I didn't ask for them for free. To be honest, I didn't even try to bicker his asking price down at all. I gave him what he asked for. I started this thread because he lied and ripped me off.

You'll notice Jordan hasn't had a lot to say about this. After I shot down his rediculas list he kinda just went away. The same way he stopped responding to my emails.

Thanks for the reply Larry.


No, I read every post, but frankly its just to a point where I don't care anymore. You say you want to use the tires - and clearly the cracks that are on the tires on only on the outside. So again, for $30 You want SHOW quality tires. Good Luck. I just looked at all the ads for tires on the samba and for $30 you cant get a pair of whitewalls -- Thanks for your input. I am enjoying the read.
And -- EVERY EMAIL YOU SENT ME I HAVE REPLIED.. Don't start talking out of your ass, cause I can play the same game.

EVERYONE -- LOUD AND CLEAR--
OFFERED BUYER PARTIAL REFUND - KEEP THE TIRES.
OFFERED BUYER FULL REFUND, RETURN. He's the one who just wants to complain... so keep going, its bettet then New York Times.
PS I never taped the tires the way they are pictured.

Rolling Eyes
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

First of all tires with cracks like that are UNSAFE. You should never of sold those tires. And in New York State a car would fail it's state Safety inspection if it had those tires on it.

VW Addict wrote:
PS I never taped the tires the way they are pictured.

Rolling Eyes



A number of months ago I sold Dave (aka Envious) a restored Bosch 010 distributor. The transaction was straight foward with no problems on either side. Today Dave PM'ed me that he damaged the paint on the distributor and asked what I'd charge to repaint it. I told Dave to send it to me and include $11 for return shipping and i'd paint it for free. He wanted to pay me for my time since it was his fault that the paint got damaged. I told him not to pay me and I stand behind my work.

Dave is a honest guy and not someone out to screw anybody. He could of made a story up about the paint, but came out and said it was his fault.

Those tires didn't tape themselves that way. Someone is a liar...

Draw you're own conclusion. I already have.
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Envious
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:13 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Actually you didn't reply to my last email.

YES! I'VE ADDMITTED IT FROM MY FIRST POST YOU DID OFFER ME A FULL REFUND IF I PAY TO SHIP THEM BACK.

Not gonna happen. Your fault. You pay to ship them back. WHY SHOULD I BE OUT A DIME OVER THIS. In my last email to you I actually offered to pay half of the return shipping "to make this go away" Remember that. That's the email you didn't reply to.

It would be cheaper to refund my money and let me throw them out. I'm sure as hell not going to drive on them. My cars are worth too much to risk that.

Now about the duct tape....
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


THE F'ING POSTAGE AND MAILING LABEL ARE ON TOP OF THE DUCT TAPE!!! OF COURSE YOU TAPED THEM UP LIKE THAT.

How do you keep coming up with this stuff?

Unless, that is, you now claim that not only are these not the tires that you shipped me (your's were white walls right?), but somebody took them out of the handmade box that cost me $11, duct taped them together, peeled the mailing label and postage off of your handmade box, and put them over the duct tape.

If that turns out to be the case, my sincere apologies.

Read the thread and look at the pics from top to bottom. You lost this arguement.
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Last edited by Envious on Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:44 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Tram
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

VW Addict wrote:
No, I read every post, but frankly its just to a point where I don't care anymore. Rolling Eyes


Looks to me like you didn't care in the first place. If you did, you wouldn't have sold the guy unsafe tires.
I especially love your "The customer is always wrong" attitude. Instead of blaming yourself for the predicament you're in because (after assuring the customer that the tires weren't cracked) you sent the guy junk tires, it's now HIS fault for "expecting show quality tires for $30."
cough*bullshit*cough
Show us where the customer Emailed that he was expecting "show quality" tires. While you're at it, show us the Email where you told him they were cracked when he asked if they were or not.
That's what I thought.
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Envious
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 8:55 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

tramandbixrule, I'll get those quotes for you.

Here's where I expressed my expetations for the used tires:

Quote:
"I know old tires aren't perfect and I wasn't looking for perfect. You stated tread wear in your ad so I knew these weren't NOS. For $20 each I wasn't expecting perfect. On my 64 vert I paid $1000 for 5 NOS wide whitewalls. I know what they're worth."


The cracks:
Dave wrote in very first email:
Quote:
Ad : 2 Original Whitewall Tires Sport Comet
Are they just dirty in the pictures or are the side walls cracked and stained? Can you quote shipping to Toronto Canada?


Jordan wrote in very first reply:
Quote:
Shipping to canada will be pretty $$.. looking around $80.. if it was in the states, it would be about half that.. anyone you know in the states I can send it to. Just dirt, in the garage, sorry. No cracks.

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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:02 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

A while back Envious sold me a thule roof rack, in the process of the transaction another guy in canada was selling some interior and some license plate frames but could not get a good shipping price. Envious was willing to send the interior and license plate frames with the rack. Well it unexpectedly cost more than he initially thought but payed for it anyway out his pocket without even charging me a dime. I think he made next to nothing selling me the rack not to mention the time he took to meet the other guy to get my stuff. Now if that is not a stand up guy I don't know what is. Thanks again Envious,I have not been able to thank you for a while since I did not have internet access for a few months. Thanks again bro! This hobby wouldn't be the way it is without guys like you.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Envious,

Your going to get caught in the lie sooner or later --- I never use duct tape, I don't even have any duct tape. I boxed them. Made a f**cking box, and put them in. You duct taped them. Plus, you took pictures of them with the duct tape off -- days ago, THINK ABOUT THAT...
I didn't duct tape them, plus DO YOU KNOW HOW STUPID THAT LOOKS?
K, offered my refund. Also - Let me ask you a question. I bought some running boards from the real source. I got flat ones and ordered louvered. I have to send the flat ones back, and they are sending the louvered ones. Guess what-- I aint bitching. I took pictures of those tires when I sold them. The only "cracks" on the tires are on the back, which I didn't even think f**cking matted since they didn't leak DROP OF AIR and let alone they are on the backside... Oh Well. I will just have to buy $1000.00 pair of tires. I could have gave you the tires and paid for shipping, you would still have something to complain about.
And for you people saying I have more negitives - no. Thats not it, its the people I deal with and how many at that. MOST of my TRANSACTIONS don't even leave feedback.
Oh and do the math -- 98.8% feedback on ebay, with 1100 positives and a rating of 98.8.

Whatever----
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You're offereing a full refund. I'm taking it. $100 ($70 + return shipping). You've got my email address. I accept Paypal and I'll cover the fees.

I've never taken a picture without the duct tape because they're still taped together in my garage!!

The first pics I sent you via email were close ups of the cracks. Here's one of them. You can see the tape on the side. Check your email. This is the same pic.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

If you wait I'll go take a picture with a time stamp. What you see in these pics is what showed up at my door. The address label and postage are still on there.

Here they are again if you missed it the first time.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


You'll notice the labels on top of the tape.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:32 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

So...you ADMIT they were cracked, Jordan.... and you say that ENVIOUS will get caught in "the lie".
Envious, good job of pre- lying for Jordan! Laughing
Jordan, the issue here isn't eBay. You might be the best seller on Earth.
But here, you screwed up! Nobody gives a rip about all of your other dealings. This is about the CRACKED TIRES you LIED to a fellow Sambanista about.
First you said the tires weren't cracked. YOU lied to make the sale. You just admitted that!
But that's OK, because they're only cracked on the back???!!!
I've got some flat tires for sale. Does that mean it's OK for me to sell them as not flat? After all, they're ONLY flat on the BOTTOM. Rolling Eyes

I sincerely cannot believe what I just read.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 18, 2005 9:33 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
The only "cracks" on the tires are on the back


I thought there weren't any cracks?
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