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sagebus
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Temescal Valley, Corona California
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 Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:02 am Post subject: New Starter/now wont run |
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| Hey All,Put in new starter,it cranks great in my 77 F/I bus but now will not fire up.Do not seem to be getting fuel[new fuel pump six weeks before] .Where in fuel punp relay?Thanks Mark in Ky. |
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VWBusrepairman
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Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 4726
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:20 am Post subject: |
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Make sure you didn't leave a wire off of the starter. There is a wire which leads to the starter via the dual relay (located left side engine bay mounted on fuel tank cover). If this wire was left off, the pump wouldn't kick on when cranking the starter.
This relay activates the pump when the starter is a cranking, then when the engine starts and the starter is no longer needed, a second relay tells the pump to run which is why it is called a kombi (combination) relay. (otherwise, pump would run all the time)
Good luck! |
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sagebus
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Temescal Valley, Corona California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 11:16 am Post subject: |
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| No. all wires are tight. push on wire (red and white) to the selenoid is the fuel pump wire, right? Cranks great, fires for one second, then dies. I had to remove F/I wiring harness to get to top bolt on starter. Harness looks rough. Could I have a problem there? Have spare harness from spare bus. Same part number. Can I use. Thanks a bunch for your help. Really need it. |
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 2:23 pm Post subject: |
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Make sure the FI grounds and the double relay grounds are all attached properly.
Are you getting 12 volts at the injectors. Usually they use a "noid light" to test, but a 12 volts test light will work if you follow the Bentley. |
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VWBusrepairman
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 4726
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Randy in Maine wrote: |
Make sure the FI grounds and the double relay grounds are all attached properly.
Are you getting 12 volts at the injectors. Usually they use a "noid light" to test, but a 12 volts test light will work if you follow the Bentley. |
Rand-o- the injectors will not see 12 volts as ballast resistor cuts the voltage down around 4, remember? The only injector receiving 12v is cold start via thermo-time switcheroo.
If your bus will hit off gasoline or ether, then it's a problem of injection not receiving current from somewhere. Sounds to me like a wire loose, or got knocked off somehow if she ran fine before. |
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sagebus
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Temescal Valley, Corona California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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| checked the cold start valve, getting 8 to 9 volts with key on. where do i put gas/ether? in AFM meter? |
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VWBusrepairman
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 4726
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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| sagebus wrote: |
| checked the cold start valve, getting 8 to 9 volts with key on. where do i put gas/ether? in AFM meter? |
I removed a hose from the "s" shaped boot and put a little squirt of ether in mine, but be careful- fires can happen easily. Have an extinguisher handy or something.
Also, make sure you've a hot battery since 8-9v doesn't sound sufficient enough. Injection likes more than 9 volts to be happy.
If the engine fires from starting fluid or some other means, it's an electrical problem sounds like to me. |
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sagebus
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Temescal Valley, Corona California
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| Posted: Sat Feb 19, 2005 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| do you unplug and remove the seven pin plug on the AFM?Battery is newer and strong the 8 to 9 V on cold start sensor is correct according to John Muirs complete idiot book.Cant figure out how to test the injecters yet,but i'm reading that part next |
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Amskeptic
Samba Member
Joined: October 18, 2002
Posts: 8568
Location: All Across The Country
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 12:27 am Post subject: |
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| sagebus wrote: |
all wires are tight. push on wire (red and white) to the selenoid
is the fuel pump wire, right?
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Nope. There are TWO spade connectors at the solenoid.
Red/white is from the ignition switch to tell the starter to wake up.
Red/black is the one that goes from the solenoid to the double relay.
Colin
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www.itinerant-air-cooled.com |
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Karl
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Joined: January 29, 2001
Posts: 6170
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
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VWBusrepairman
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 4726
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:13 am Post subject: |
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| Karl wrote: |
STOP and leave the MUIR book in the bathroom for reading material. John DIED before the FI buses were built!!! And we all know the advice he gave about chokes on carbs and 009 dizzys.......
BEFORE you go any further, buy the BENTLEY bus manual. It is the REAL factory manual and the last section covers the EFI and gives you all the tests to do.
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John died in '77 and injection had been around since 1968 for the type IIIs and then in 1975 for buses. It's a good read.
The Bentley is decent as well. I have the first edition from Volkswagen where Bentley got their pictures from. |
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sagebus
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Temescal Valley, Corona California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: |
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| O.K Karl I will take your advice and get the Bently,thanks for the E-Bay links.Have always been intimadated by the official manuels,thought muirs was for old hippy burnouts like myself.I'm learning everyday...Mark 77 Sagebus |
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Karl
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2001
Posts: 6170
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:10 am Post subject: |
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The typeIII's used D jetronic injection. NOT the same as a bus which is L jectronic. TWO totally different systems.
Stop comparing apples and oranges.
Like comparing the Muir comic book with a real manual. |
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Orange
Samba Member
Joined: December 16, 2004
Posts: 296
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 11:57 am Post subject: |
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I had the same situation on my 79 FI... turns out that my fuel pump had died and my double relay had shorted out at the same time. Lemme dig up the thread, I'll amend this post in a minute....
Here it is:
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=95120&highlight=
Good luck.
_________________
...Orange you glad I didn't say banana? |
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roadron
Samba Member
Joined: October 15, 2004
Posts: 215
Location: taos new mexico
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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make sure you don"t have the spade connections on the starter switched. if i remember correctly it will still turn over but not start if they are crossed
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73 WESTY SO72-6 with continental bed |
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sagebus
Samba Member
Joined: July 26, 2004
Posts: 310
Location: Temescal Valley, Corona California
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| Posted: Sun Feb 20, 2005 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Want to thank everyone for the help,went over everything again this morning and she fired right up,all appears normal for now.learned a lot this past three days,till the next time something else happens I'm out of yer hair,Mark |
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