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Duncwarw Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2003 Posts: 3094
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 9:51 am Post subject: |
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Richard, you're an international star!
I told my friends in the UK and they're telling the French about it.
Imagine all those saved engines....
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:06 am Post subject: |
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jberger wrote: |
I thought the thermo couple ring is composed of two different specific metals, that produce known volts when heated. If so, how can we use a normal ring terminal? |
The ring terminal is just there to conduct the heat to the thermocouple wire where the two ends of the wire meet and touch each other.
It's just a profit item for the gauge makers. They buy the ring terminals by the thousands and the thermocouple wire by the 10,000 ft.roll. _________________ '78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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jberger Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003 Posts: 2476
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:23 am Post subject: |
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ratwell wrote: |
jberger wrote: |
I thought the thermo couple ring is composed of two different specific metals, that produce known volts when heated. If so, how can we use a normal ring terminal? |
The ring terminal is just there to conduct the heat to the thermocouple wire where the two ends of the wire meet and touch each other.
It's just a profit item for the gauge makers. They buy the ring terminals by the thousands and the thermocouple wire by the 10,000 ft.roll. |
Groovy |
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timmy74006 Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2004 Posts: 151 Location: NE Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 10:40 am Post subject: |
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Any idea where to get these in a 12mm diameter? Also, do you basically use the ring in place of the supplied crush washer?
Thanks
Tim
ratwell wrote: |
You just need a suitable ring terminal that fits under the plug, expose both of the thermcouple wires (strip off about 5mm of the insulation) and crimp them in the terminal so they are touching. That's it. Look closely at this photo:
http://www.germansupply.com/xcart/skin1/images/tech/cht/TIVSenderInstalled.jpg
With the right terminal and a NGK plug I find there is plenty of room to fit the terminal without altering the head. Luckily #3 plug is also the easiest to reach through the tin on a Type 4 engine (with overhead hatch of course).
The hardest part is finding the ring terminal. I have a few 14mm spares that can I probably mail out for $1.50 each to anyone in the US making their own harness. |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 11:46 am Post subject: |
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timmy74006 wrote: |
Any idea where to get these in a 12mm diameter? |
Any ring terminal sized for a 1/2" bolt should work but you need one that is thin enough to fit in the spark plug well. If you can't find one easily contact AMP and ask them for a sample of 321165: they will send you 5 terminals.
That terminal has a 13mm opening and narrow profile and should fit that plug on any VW head. Click on "View Customer Drawing(s)." to see the actual dimensions. I believe this is the same terminal that VDO uses judging by the markings and the AMP catalog selection and it's stretched to 14mm size or bored out slightly.
http://homepage.mac.com/ratwell/.Pictures/Maintenance3/250-CHTTerminal.jpg
Quote: |
Also, do you basically use the ring in place of the supplied crush washer?
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Yes, you cut off the crush washer and the ring terminal sets the plug in essentially the same position in the combustion chamber. _________________ '78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ
Last edited by ratwell on Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:13 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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timmy74006 Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2004 Posts: 151 Location: NE Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:10 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks again for your help. I will give them a try. I just placed an order for a set of 3 gauges to replace the existing ones. Found out they have a 2 year warranty on parts and labor. From what I've heard, the display is the first thing to go. The tech said even if it's out of warranty, they're inexpensive to fix. FYI. Also found out that the bus wire for the VDO CHT is 15', not including the sensor wire length.
Tim
71 passenger bus
ratwell wrote: |
timmy74006 wrote: |
Any idea where to get these in a 12mm diameter? |
Any ring terminal sized for a 1/2" bolt should work but you need one that is thin enough to fit in the spark plug well. If you can't find one easily contact AMP and ask them for a sample of 321165: they will send you 5 terminals.
That terminal has a 13mm opening and narrow profile and should fit that plug on any VW head. Click on "View Customer Drawing(s)." to see the actual dimensions. I believe this is the same terminal that VDO uses judging by the markings and the AMP catalog selection and it's stretched to 14mm size or bored out slightly.
http://homepage.mac.com/ratwell/.Pictures/Maintenance3/250-CHTTerminal.jpg
Quote: |
Also, do you basically use the ring in place of the supplied crush washer?
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Yes, you cut off the crush washer and the ring terminal sets the plug in essentially the same position in the combustion chamber. |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:15 pm Post subject: |
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timmy74006 wrote: |
Thanks again for your help. I will give them a try. |
One more thing. I've never installed the AMP terminal but I know it's tin plated. I would test heat it in the oven at 500F before installing to make sure it won't weld itself to your plug and the head: tin has a low melting point.
Quote: |
Found out they have a 2 year warranty on parts and labor. From what I've heard, the display is the first thing to go. The tech said even if it's out of warranty, they're inexpensive to fix. |
They seem to be a good company. Consider that the VDO gauge is "broken" as soon as you install it...
Quote: |
FYI. Also found out that the bus wire for the VDO CHT is 15', not including the sensor wire length. |
You might find it too short and will have to extend it. That's another reason I recommend you buy the wiring in bulk for 50cents/ft. _________________ '78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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timmy74006 Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2004 Posts: 151 Location: NE Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 12:31 pm Post subject: |
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Good info. Tin (Sn) melts at 449.47°F and interestingly enough, superconducts at 3.72°K or °C above absolute zero. Might have to melt the tin off with a small torch first before using. I do plan on using a custom length of type K thermocouple wire and the appropriate plug connectors as not to induce any additional cold junctions. Got to admit, you're full of good info. I don't think mounting depth will be a problem. I'm using 044 heads and the plug wells are pretty shallow. I'll probably notch the edge of the hole to keep the ring lug from turning.
Tim
ratwell wrote: |
timmy74006 wrote: |
Thanks again for your help. I will give them a try. |
One more thing. I've never installed the AMP terminal but I know it's tin plated. I would test heat it in the oven at 500F before installing to make sure it won't weld itself to your plug and the head: tin has a low melting point.
Quote: |
Found out they have a 2 year warranty on parts and labor. From what I've heard, the display is the first thing to go. The tech said even if it's out of warranty, they're inexpensive to fix. |
They seem to be a good company. Consider that the VDO gauge is "broken" as soon as you install it...
Quote: |
FYI. Also found out that the bus wire for the VDO CHT is 15', not including the sensor wire length. |
You might find it too short and will have to extend it. That's another reason I recommend you buy the wiring in bulk for 50cents/ft. |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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timmy74006 Samba Member
Joined: November 18, 2004 Posts: 151 Location: NE Oklahoma
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Posted: Wed Feb 23, 2005 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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Not at all my friend. I just hope I can be as helpful to others as my experience base grows.
Tim
ratwell wrote: |
timmy74006 wrote: |
Got to admit, you're full of good info. |
Is that such a bad thing? |
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shiningstar76 Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003 Posts: 2689 Location: Savannah
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Posted: Wed Mar 02, 2005 1:36 pm Post subject: |
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I just got my CHT gauge....what should be the temp range on a 1600 dp? _________________ KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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Volkswagenate Samba Member
Joined: October 30, 2004 Posts: 99 Location: Oh-hi-uh
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 9:48 pm Post subject: |
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How long did any of you who've gotten these gauges have to wait on shipping? I would like to have it before spring break in two weeks (i had the guage shipped to my school address) and i ordered prob a week and a half ago now. {am interested in what temperatures i should expect on my 1700 type 4 as well} |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject: |
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It took less than a week to get from SD to CA via UPS. I know two other who have had their gauges delivered from Dakota Digital quickly.
As for temps, these are my temps recorded when it was 55F outside:
MPH RPM CHT
50 2620 340F
55 2860 360F
60 3150 380F
65 3440 380F
70 3720 400F
75 4010 420F _________________ '78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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DurocShark Samba Member
Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 6624 Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 5:58 am Post subject: |
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ratwell wrote: |
It took less than a week to get from SD to CA via UPS. I know two other who have had their gauges delivered from Dakota Digital quickly.
As for temps, these are my temps recorded when it was 55F outside:
MPH RPM CHT
50 2620 340F
55 2860 360F
60 3150 380F
65 3440 380F
70 3720 400F
75 4010 420F |
So, 65 is the sweet spot cooling-wise? _________________ No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Fri Mar 04, 2005 9:21 am Post subject: |
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That's where it seems to level off for a moment. In general the faster you go, the hotter the engine runs... _________________ '78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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Adventurewagen Samba Member
Joined: April 14, 2003 Posts: 1583 Location: Seattle
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 12:33 pm Post subject: |
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Im saving my cash for the temp gauge right now and was looking at new k-type thermocouple wiring. Never knew it came in so many different specs.
Im not a mechanical engineer so I have really no idea on what makes a difference. Im sure the cheapest stuff probably works, but anybody know or have an opinion on some of the different types of wiring.
Ive done some more research and found a great site with Type K Thermocouple wire, check it out. Some of the pricing seems to be off for some of the wiring, instead of 1.50/ft like it says it prices out to like 8bucks a foot. Im figuring on anything with a max temp of at least 900 and maybe something default like 20 or 24 guage solid wire.
http://www.omega.com/ppt/pptsc.asp?ref=XC_K_TC_WIRE&Nav=temh06
so many things to choose from, I figure if Im gonna spend 110 bucks on a gauge I mine as well spend an extra few bucks on the wiring thats going to help make it read the right thing. _________________ 63 Gulf Blue Notch
71 Sierra Yellow Adventurewagen |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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Don't spend too much. Unless you can find it for less than $1/ft online just ask Dakota Digital to sell you a custom length for $25. _________________ '78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
Read the Baywindow FAQ |
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shiningstar76 Samba Brewer
Joined: July 12, 2003 Posts: 2689 Location: Savannah
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Posted: Mon Mar 28, 2005 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: |
Posted: Thu Mar 03, 2005 10:58 pm Post subject:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
It took less than a week to get from SD to CA via UPS. I know two other who have had their gauges delivered from Dakota Digital quickly.
As for temps, these are my temps recorded when it was 55F outside:
MPH RPM CHT
50 2620 340F
55 2860 360F
60 3150 380F
65 3440 380F
70 3720 400F
75 4010 420F
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Should we assume the same(roughly) for 1600? You drive type 4, dont you ratwell? _________________ KK4NTP
96 Tacoma
86 4Runner
My bus caught on fire and is now on the other coast with someone who gave me money for it. |
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ratwell Samba Member
Joined: April 26, 2003 Posts: 8717 Location: Victoria, BC
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pagjac Samba Member
Joined: June 09, 2005 Posts: 1 Location: Montréal, Québec, Canada
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Posted: Thu Jun 09, 2005 11:32 am Post subject: Oil temp sensor location |
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Hi,
I read with great interest your posting on oil temp sender location. I want to tackle the job of installing the sender in the correct location you mentioned and I quote: "...the best place to mount one is right before the oil pump using the oil gallery plug behind the oil pickup tube".
Could you explain more on how to do that? Maybe by posting an image of the location on the engine with some instructions on how to remove the plug and if the tapping of the hole is at all possible without removing the engine?
Thanks in advance
Jacques Pagé 1981 aircooled RIVIERA |
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