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009 distrubutor in 82
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scruffyboy
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 9:48 pm    Post subject: 009 distrubutor in 82 Reply with quote

Thinkng of "upgrading" the iginition in my 82 Westy.
I want to use an 009 with a pertronix, Bosch Blue coil and Bosch Platinums. The van is a manual trans, fedearl (I believe) no A/C
Good idea? Bad Idea? Where do I set the timing?

Thanks gang!
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Tram
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 10:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

009 is good as a temporary stopgap if there's nothing else available. I'd never get rid of an original vacuum advance distributor for one, though. Original distributors have advance curves customised to individual engines. Messing with that curve can, and often does, lead to an early death.
Keep the original. You can get a Petronix that fits.
Oh, and forget the platinums! In 30 years in the German car biz, I've seen MORE runability problems caused by platinum plugs than anything else.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 25, 2005 11:54 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You will hate yourself for putting a 009 in your westy.
Stick with stock.
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 4:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Even John Muir hated the thought of a 009 in a type 4 engine and with any engine running FI.

Stick with that 205S stock distributor. You need the total advance that the 009 doesn't have.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I agree with everyone else on the 009, just keep what you got. get a blue coil and the pentronix.
I've heard bad things about the bosch platium plugs and this engine, so stick with stock plugs. I have blue coil and electronic ignition in my 81 Westy.
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scruffyboy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:09 pm    Post subject: Thanks guys! Reply with quote

Really appreciate all the feedback. Turns out I've got a distributor from an earlier model FI (contacts below the breaker plate) and THAT was a piece of C#@P, timing bouncing all OVER the place. I've installed the 009 for now timed to 10 btdc @ 850rpm but need to get the CORRECT 205s distributor for the beast, any suggestions where I might find one?

Thanks guys!
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well if you have to use that 009 for a while at least set it to max advance (about 30*) at about 3000 RPMs.

I have found a few in the classifieds or you could get a new SVDA from aircooled or a 034 from cip1.

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=130985

you can also use a 205P

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=136092

Vanagon Federal 1980-1983 * 2000

Note: This Distributor also fits Type 4 (412) 1974
Distributor: VW 022-905-205S, Bosch 0231 170 093
Note: VW 021-905-205P, Bosch 022-905-205S, 0231 168 005
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scruffyboy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 5:56 pm    Post subject: Dual diaphraghm? Reply with quote

It would appear that the original distributor was a dual diaphraghm? I've since determined that the bus IS a "federal" version.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 6:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

keep the stock dist. Check the vacc on both sides of the biscut and make sure it's OK. Ajust timing if necessary
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 7:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am kind of on unchartered ground here since I don't know for certain, but I don't think the original dizzy is a vacuum advance vacuum retard dizzy. I think it is a straight vacuum advance.

The CA models were I believe were advance/retard and used the 039-905-205C with the hall effect electronic ignition. Usually the retard function is fed from a different port on the throttle body.

Here is the listing from www.type2.com from the Old Volks Home

Vanagon Federal 1980-1983 * 2000

Note: This Distributor also fits Type 4 (412) 1974
Distributor: VW 022-905-205S, Bosch 0231 170 093
Note: VW 021-905-205P, Bosch 022-905-205S, 0231 168 005
Can Use:
Points: 01 011
Condensor: 02 074
Rotor: 04 033
Dust Cover: 039-905-241, Bosch 1230 500 139 > 1230 500 147
Cap: 03 010
Distributor Cap Clip: 034-905-265, Bosch 1231 251 033
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Coil: 00 012
Vacuum Can: 07 060
Ignition Wires: 09 171
Spark Plug: W8CC
Timing Set At:: 7.5deg BTDC @ 850-950 rpm (Man Trans), 900-1000 rpm (Auto Trans) w/strobe, vacuum hose connected. (Bentley Table on Page 28.3 incorrectly states with hose disconnected).
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 8-12deg Adv @ 7.9 In. Hg; Centrifugal: 9-14deg @ 1600 rpm, 21-25deg @ 3400 rpm

and the CA model...

Vanagon Calif 1980-1983 * 2000

Distributor: VW 039-905-205C, Bosch 0237 022 009
Can Use: (Same as Bus Calif 1979 - See Above)
Dist Hall Sender w/Parts: 035-998-065, Bosch 1237 011 050
Ignition Control Module (On Left Firewall): VW 211-905-351B or D, Bosch 0227 100 137
(Note: VW has superseded this to 191-905-351B, Bosch 0227 100 142. This unit is supposed to be heavier duty, mounted onto it's own cast iron heat sink, which is in turn mounted to the existing heat sink on the left firewall. Longer sheet metal screws will be needed when performing this superseded installation.)
Note: Will replace OE Fairchild/Telefunken Module if installed
Rotor: 04 038
Dust Cover: 039-905-241, Bosch 1230 500 139 > 1230 500 147
Cap: 03 010
Distributor Cap Clip: 034-905-265, Bosch 1231 251 033
Parts Kit (Shims, Washers & Hardware): 059-998-211, Bosch 1237 010 007
Internal Distributor Parts:
Hall Impulse Generator: 035-905-315 1237 031 053 > 1237 031 061
(Note: Very expensive by itself - cheaper to buy Hall Sender w/Parts above)
Timing Core/Rotor (Reluctor): 071-905-309A, 1231 328 032 > 049-905-309A, 1231 328 046
Pin for Reluctor: 035-905-319, 1233 101 035
Coned Spring Washer for Reluctor: 035-905-321, 1230 150 004
"C" Lock Ring for Reluctor (2 Req'd): 035-905-323, 1230 118 002
Black Plastic Hall Connector on side of Distributor: 035-905-331, 1230 329 009
Coil: 00 041
Vacuum Can: 07 163
Ignition Wires: 09 171
Spark Plug: W8CC
Timing Set At:: 5deg ATDC @ 800-950 rpm (Manual Trans), @ 850-1000 rpm (Auto Trans) w/strobe, vacuum hose(s) connected. Idle Stabilizer must be disconnected and it's plugs directly connected together (bypassing the Stabilizer) for accurate timing with strobe. Reconnect Idle Stabilizer when timing is set.
Advance/Retard Range: Vacuum: 9-12deg Adv @ 8.2 In. Hg, 11-13deg Ret @ 8.2 In. Hg; Centrifugal: 9-13deg @ 1600 rpm, 12-16deg @ 2800 rpm, 21-25deg @ 3600 rpm
Note: In regards to the Vacuum Advance - Bentley Bus states that there is 11-13deg Advance @ 9.4 In. Hg, even though they are the same distributors - possible discrepancy?

So what does the stock dizzy look like? Does it have places for 2 different vacuum hoses on the can? Another difference is that the 205C requires a 1K rotor as opposed to the 5K rotor on the 205S/205P rotor (usually stamped on the rotor). I think only the CA models have the idle stabilizer and the O2 sensor, but I woulldn't bet the farm on that.

Are you getting a "scattered light" when you go to time this? As said above you might try to clean and lube the centrifical advance part/weights and replace the vac can if that is also bad. I think that is a pretty common vac can (I will defer to Karl if he is reading this).

Good luck!
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scruffyboy
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 26, 2005 10:25 pm    Post subject: Hmmmm... Reply with quote

I'm 99% I've got a "federal" volks, No evidence of an O2 sensor, cat on the drivers side, single exhaust coming out the passengers side....I THINK someone just put in whatever dizzy they had on hand and left ME to sort it all out. Hey, the thing made it from Boulder, CO to Key West, Fl
Soooooo I guessing I'm looking for a single "pot" Dizzy that'll give me 32 degrees advance @ 3000rpm and I'll set the timing @ [email protected]
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Randy in Maine
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 12:28 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Got a number off the dizzy you took out? If you go to the Old Volks home post from above you can cross reference it.
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scruffyboy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 27, 2005 4:26 pm    Post subject: It's the wrong one Reply with quote

I've got a dizzy off an earlier FI volks, it has the trigger points below teh breaker plate. It's the wrong dizzy. Found a re-built unit online.
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