new head? new valve? new vanagon?

[M_atthewanderson]

Today I received some news from my new mechanic and it was not so good for my 1980 2.0 vanagon. He performed a leak down test and took off the valve cover and found that my intake valve had broken at the stem. Luckily it has not damaged the cylinder and piston. So his diagnosis was new heads. He will install one for $600 and two for $800 covering labor. He has new heads for $600, so im looking at $1200.00 to $1400.00. He will install any part I find from somewhere else but he won’t understandably warranty the labor or part. So I ask you samba Vanagon crown, should I look at just replacing that head? Both heads? That valve? Any advice would help. Unfortunately I live in an apartment but would love to do it myself so any advice on that would also be nice. Thank you, :2gunfire:
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1980 2.0 Sunroof Vanagon

[Captain Pike]

600$ per head? for the part? that's way too expensive. Try hallesy(sp?) imports in portland Or. Much better price on parts there.Is the engine going to be removed or inframe? If it were me, 1 head_inframe_1 day work. In any case this is a 1 day job. Good luck!
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LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current.......................

[mightyart]

That is way to much, your mechanic is looking for some easy money. I live in an apartment and I'd do it myself, with the engine in. I'd take the head off and find out what else is bad, and if it's cracked. Look in the classifieds, You can get a whole long block for 1200.00
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/detail.php?id=142597
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[Randy in Maine]

Gee I don't know if that is too much or not.

Either way the engine should come out (3 hours of shop time), both heads should be removed and taken to a good machine shop for some work and inspection. Reassembled with some new PRT seals and then reinstalled.

Heads are about $300 each for new ones (AMC Square port ones + they should have the guides/valves updated to the chrome ones that everyone uses now), perhaps $200 each for used but rebuilt ones from Bus Depot or Rimco or Headflomasters. The shop guy will give him a warranty for the heads and hopefully will do any adjustments later for a nominal charge.

With the engine out I would expect to see the endplay inspected/adjusted, (and if leaking oil perhaps new crankshaft seals installed) and the clutch plate and throwout bearing at least looked at. Some new fuel and vacuum lines installed. Maybe a new engine to body seal if it needs one. It always takes longer than you think (at least it does for me!). I would be installing a CHT gauge at the same time so I would know if it was overheating.

Really hard to say what is going on in there, not being there. I don't know much about the engine/bus history and what kind of shape it is in. If it is spotlessly clean and everything has been well maintaied, that would be different that one that has been leaking/burning oil for the past 7 years that needs about everything. They are all different.

Most shop guys don't do the "remove and clean everything in there" stuff like we do when we have out engines out, because the customer doesn't want to pay for it, and they have 8 other cars to work on after this one.

As we say here in Maine, "Hard sayin', not knowin'."

A nice new engine for this thing from Boston Engine is about $2500 + installation, but I can't imagine it would be any cheaper from a decent shop out there like NW Connecting Rod. A good engine is worth good money.

Choose wisely.

Just my two cents.

[mightyart]

Randy's right, there are allot of variables. How many miles are on the engine? Did it run fine before or has it kind of been a dog since you had it? When was the last time it had a good going over, hoses changed out stuff like that? and do you trust your mechanic? If you know of a good machine shop you may want to take the head off yourself and take it in to get checked.
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My Art:
http://www.instagram.com/flynn8552/

[M_atthewanderson]

Thank you so much your suggestions are greatly appreciated. So you can take the heads off the engine while it’s still in frame. I think I will tow the vanagon from the mechanic to my apartment lot and take the head off. Take it to a shop and several friends look at it as well. Buy some used heads in good shape and start saving for a rebuild while taking her easy. The engine has been great before this happened. I maintain her more then most relationships, plugs, oil, filters, cables, hoses, so I think due to monetary purposes and history I will look at just replacing that head right now. Is their anything I need to do when putting on a used head? I would like to know if this sounds like a good idea?

And anyone who reads this has some heads I have a ton of beetle parts heads new and used several pairs. Duel carb kits. Oem interior pieces ask me I probably have it for trade.
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1980 2.0 Sunroof Vanagon

[Randy in Maine]

Considerably less work to just pull the engine to allow you to work on it even if you have never done it before. Helps to have a buddy to help you wiggle it around. Follow richards 20 step plan. 3 hours. The ATV jack is worth the $50-60 they cost. It has been done in a parking lot before and I once did it in a rest area outside of Phoenix, but I prefer to do it at my house in the driveway.

http://www.ratwell.com/technical/EngineRemoval.html

This is what I run for heads on my 79 GE (square port engine). Nice castings. The chrome valve guides would be worth it.

http://www.air-cooled.com/new-bin/viewproductdetail.php?keyword2=EHD0002&cartid=

[penthink]

[Randy in Maine]

Mike we can have a look at them on saturday. They should be square ports out of this 81 vanagon.

I don't own a slide hammer though. I have looked in my toolbox for like 30 years and I have not seen one in there. I will keep looking though.

Randy

[M_atthewanderson]

mike, randy,
I would really apreciate it if you could do that for me.
thank you,
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1980 2.0 Sunroof Vanagon

[penthink]

Hell yeah, man, we'll do it for you. I'll get them pulled off tonight and have a look at them. Always makes me feel good to help a fellow idiotic VW Addict in need! God knows enough people on this site have helped my sorry ass through this disease!

If all looks good, I'll fire 'em out to you. I will have Randy look 'em over for you though. He seems to know what he is looking at, whereas I would just sort of stare at them stupidly and grunt a couple times.

And like a couple people said, pull that damned engine out yourself. Seriously man, I am not mechanical, and I just pulled my first engine by myself, and it teaches you so much about how everything interacts and works. And not to be a prick, but I think the three hour thing is a bit heavy. I had my Westy engine out in like 2 hours. But of course I didn't have an exhaust to deal with. Go for it. It's actually kind of fun, believe it or not.

[penthink]

[Ericthenorse]

The idiots guide to vw mechanics is a great resource for driveway mechanics... (in addition to your factory manual)..... I include one with evry vw I sell...
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'69 bug--rusty as hell
'91 vanagon carrat-slammed,5 speed,4 wheel disks,17x8.5's

[weinerwagen]

Heads can be had for about 375 each, set of jugs and pistons for about 400 to 500 dependant upon the source,,,,,,

I have a grand rapped up in my 2.0l....old one pulled and new one installed
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Retired attorney--Tort King.

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I have some real low miles Boston bob amc Heads ready to go in real nice shape.They have 2000 miles or less on them.
My motor through a rod (which killed the case but saved the heads),
I'll take 300 for the pair.

[H-four]

That sounds more like it. I was looking at +/- $350 for good quality new, and $200 used, from a reliable shop here, and I think it was about $400 for installation. I think you are getting a very nice offer above, and that would give you options for the future, like getting your existing ones rebuilt, and still having a ride.

You didn't say what the compression was on the other cylinders. If all is well, there is really no reason to do more than the one side at this time. The help offered above not included, I would be wary of rebuilts though. have heard over and over from many folks and shops about short or unpredictable life spans with them. Save your pennies and buy new.

[86syncro]

I'd look at this as a practice run for when your out on the road and everything hits the fan.

I've dropped and rebuilt both of my engines (73' bus & 72' squareback) behind my apartment when I was in school. You just have to be organized and determined to do it. With a jack you can do anything. Even in gravel it can be done. It sucks, but its possible.

If you don't have to move the vehicle from your parking spot for awhile, you shouldn't have any problems. In fact, you can do the rebuild inside your van if your middle seat is out. I rebuilt both engines in my kitchen and packed them outside when I was ready to put it in. Granted, this was after the block had been dipped and I had everything repainted and new.

I certainly would not give your mechanic a single penny! I once had a dead cylinder on my squareback after it had been tuned by a local VW shop. So, I took the valve cover off and found out why. They had removed the valve adjustment screws so the valves couldn't open or close for that cylinder. I took it back and they wanted to split the case to look for the missing screws. What! They were trying to tell me that the screws had worked themselves through the pushrod tube into the crankcase. I havn't been to a mechanic since.

Putting new heads in is simple once you get your sheet metal off. Use an impact wrench on the screws if they are tight. Don't worry, you can get new ones from your hardware store if you mangle them.