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12v conversion
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stanovich
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 04, 2015 8:58 pm    Post subject: Re: 12v conversion Reply with quote

I have a problem with the bushing assembly process, 1, if the bushing is an oil lite type bushing(appears as tiny beads of bronze pressed together) it should be oiled not slathered with grease. 2, to oil before assembly hold bushing on tip of index finger fill with motor oil, now pinch hard between thumb and index finger, oil should be forced out! (if so, its an oil lite bushing). Now you have a bushing that should not wear out and no mess or worry about grease being flung on your clutch-- Factory correct--
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 20, 2009 10:36 am    Post subject: 12v conversion Reply with quote

Have been away for awhile.....so I just read this. I saw someplace on here that you can drill a hole in the inner fender wheel well to get a socket on the maniflod bolts an the spark plugs.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:47 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Oh, another big problem was the dual dellorto carbs. The engine definitely would not fit with them on, so I took off the carbs and manifolds. Now that the engine is in, I'm finding it near impossible to get the nuts onto the front mounting bolts of each manifold. I have no idea how to get at them. They are too close to the manifold to get a socket onto, and there's no room to get a wrench on them and turn.

A second problem is that the 1300 tins don't fit the new engine.
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jaysen72
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 8:40 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well, I put back the engine yesterday after grinding some more of the tranny. It went about 3/4's of the way on. So, I tried the trick talked about here. I turned the engine over with a huge crescent wrench, effectively grinding the tranny using the flywheel teeth.

That method worked, but was really time consuming. I chocked it up as a workout as well as hobby. I'm still sore today from all that cranking. Anyway, the engine is on and it turns relatively free.

I tried hitting the starter, but got a loud electric snap sound and now the oil light don't come on. I think the battery cables need to be tightened, and I need to check the ground.

So, to recap...

1966 VW with 6 volt, 1300 engine, swing axle trans, all original.

New engine 1971 type 1 case, 1835mm jugs, Kennedy clutch and pressure plate, chrome AL82 12v alternator with internal regulator.

I changed to a 12v battery and starter, changed the lightbulbs, headlights, put a 12-6v voltage drop on the wiper motor power wire, changed the dimmer relay. The 12v blinker relay I bought doesn't do the same functions as the blinker/hazard dual relay original, so i haven't changed it.

I'm hoping the loud crack/snap I heard was just a loose battery cable either at the battery or at the starter. I'll check it tomorrow.
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rusty57
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Don't breath in the dust!!! And if it catches on fire, get out of the way!!! You have to grind quite a bit off the bell housing. Don't worry if you get into the bolt tunnels, the engine will still mount up. I made the template for mine, just a little bigger than the actual flywheel going into the car. That way i wouldn't have to do the engine on/off dance. The first couple times, I thought I had ground off enough and the engine just wouldn't align properly. Although the engine has to be aligned to the tranny spline, you should be able to install the engine well into the tranny before you have to turn the pulley to align it for the final push. Keep on grinding until it fits.If that doesn't work and you run out of tranny to grind, it must be another issue like the starter/flywheel match. Good luck.
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jaysen72
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 14, 2009 9:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It's a magnesium alloy, not pure magnesium. Of course, pure magnesium wouldn't be strong enough to make a transmission housing. The alloy isn't that flammable. I ground mine down with an angle grinder and a stone wheel, it sparks like crazy, but not like a magnesium flare or anything. I've used magnesium flares before in the military and have seen the ones used for underwater torches, definitely not the same as this.

I would bet that human lungs and mucous membranes don't like magnesium dust much, so I use goggles and mask. About to go to round 2 on the tranny. I'll let you know if it blows up like 4th of july or I go blind or anything. hehe.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:44 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Wayne S. Johnson wrote:
From a concerned Samba member;
VW trans are magnesium not aluminum and if the magnesium dust gets sparked while grinding out a bell housing you will have a small fire works display in your face. Just thought you would like that for your ad.

Aditional information;
The fire department said the light is so bright it could burn your retina, the smoke is poisonous and itís impossible to put Magnesium out. Magnesium is used in fireworks to make bright explosions.


Well that maybe be true but I ground mine down now fire and now retina burns. You aren't creating dust you are merely shaving the walls.

You all can do/believe what you want but this has been done many of times and I have yet to hear of a true accident of this nature arise.

Merely wishing the walls of you tranny to get bigger won't help your flywheel fit. Whether you pay someone an outrageous amount of money because they too are concerned about it hurting them (1:1,000,000,000 chance it will) and they think they have the right to charge an ungodly amount. I did it thousands maybe millions have done it and still here we are still grind it away although there is a very small change it ignites.

Everyone takes this for what it is.
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Wayne S. Johnson
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 10, 2009 11:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

From a concerned Samba member;
VW trans are magnesium not aluminum and if the magnesium dust gets sparked while grinding out a bell housing you will have a small fire works display in your face. Just thought you would like that for your ad.

Aditional information;
The fire department said the light is so bright it could burn your retina, the smoke is poisonous and itís impossible to put Magnesium out. Magnesium is used in fireworks to make bright explosions.
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kevinh94
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 09, 2009 5:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaysen72 wrote:
I pulled the engine off again. There are definitely some teeth marks inside the bell housing. So, back to grinding. I guess the new flywheel is slightly larger than the 6v one, or maybe it just pushes further into the bell housing.

My car is a 1966 beetle. The transmission is the original. The engine is a 1600 based 12v that has been bored to 92mm cylinders. It has a 200mm clutch. I have another flywheel that isn't attached to anything that's a spare 12v one. I put it up next to my old 6v flywheel from the 1300 engine. They're the same diameter, at least very close. I think the difference is the size of the pressure plate and clutch wheel. The teeth on the flywheel are slightly different as well, but the same diameter. If the flywheel was 20mm wider, it definitely wouldn't work. That's 2cm or .78 inches.


Ya well I am pretty sure if its a 6 volt flywheel you wouldn't be having problems. I think all the 6 volt flywheels and clutches are the same unless you step it up to a heavier duty one.

12 volt is the same. See I think it was 66 was the start of the 12 volt cars. Anyway grind down where you see teeth marks a little more jack it back up if that is what you are using and start it iinto and onto the tranny and the tranny shaft. once you get it in you must turn the motor to grind out what is in its path. Otherwise you will do what I myself did and that is get the engine in with an 1/8 or 1/4 gap and put the car in gear and turn the tires by hand with someones help of course and get nothing. It is like you motor just seized up.

I guess if you could access the flywheel real easily get a piece of card board and trace it. cut it out as accurate as you possibly can stick it into the bell housing and find out where you are catching.

That works but my flywheel was installed and under the car so i wasn't going to mess with it.

Turning the motor does work, I used it on my car. IT can be time consuming but worth it.

Kevin.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 10:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I pulled the engine off again. There are definitely some teeth marks inside the bell housing. So, back to grinding. I guess the new flywheel is slightly larger than the 6v one, or maybe it just pushes further into the bell housing.

My car is a 1966 beetle. The transmission is the original. The engine is a 1600 based 12v that has been bored to 92mm cylinders. It has a 200mm clutch. I have another flywheel that isn't attached to anything that's a spare 12v one. I put it up next to my old 6v flywheel from the 1300 engine. They're the same diameter, at least very close. I think the difference is the size of the pressure plate and clutch wheel. The teeth on the flywheel are slightly different as well, but the same diameter. If the flywheel was 20mm wider, it definitely wouldn't work. That's 2cm or .78 inches.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaysen72 wrote:
Thanks, how do i "spin" the engine while pushing? I've got a 1835cc with dual carbs and sorta high performance parts. I doubt a 180 clutch would last very long.

I was thinking that maybe the transmission drive shaft wasn't lining up with the clutch plate. But, the engine definitely won't spin right now. It binds up about half way in. So, should I pull it out and grind down more parts? I was using a spare flywheel to measure clearance, but I bet it's the clutch pressure plate that's hitting. The flywheel is the same diameter as the 6v one.


Ok you have a 180 mm clutch? You sure? That big a motor I think I would have gone 200mm. 180mm is 6 volt fly and the 200 is the 12 volt.

You install yourself? The Flywheel I mean. What year of car we dealing with

If you are sure it's a 180 then grinding the tranny won't help you would have other issues.

My car is a 68 with swing axle and it has a 200mm flywheel. My car has a 6 volt tranny so I had to grind the walls of the tranny to accomidate the bigger flywheel.


Well first off since the engine isn't hooked up to the tranny yet the motor can spin free. Make sure it's out of gear anyway but you just slide the motor a little and turn. put your hands on the Crank Pulley. Turn it either way I turn to the passenger side since I am right handed, it's just more comfortable.

You don't turn while pushing it takes two hands to install by yourself. Well for me anyway. I would slide a little and turn the engine if it didn't bind I would keep going and if you know you are dead on you can probably put your hand on the crank pulley and turn and push as well. If it does bind up a little stop pushing it forward and turn the motor till it doesn't bind any longer. You can be the judge of that. Like I said earlier if it binds up to the point you can't turn it by hand then you got to pull it out just a small amount to free it up again.

Let me know if this helped anymore than before.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 5:56 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, how do i "spin" the engine while pushing? I've got a 1835cc with dual carbs and sorta high performance parts. I doubt a 180 clutch would last very long.

I was thinking that maybe the transmission drive shaft wasn't lining up with the clutch plate. But, the engine definitely won't spin right now. It binds up about half way in. So, should I pull it out and grind down more parts? I was using a spare flywheel to measure clearance, but I bet it's the clutch pressure plate that's hitting. The flywheel is the same diameter as the 6v one.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 08, 2009 6:00 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

jaysen72 wrote:
Grrr... been struggling with the engine for the past 2 hours and can't seem to get it to go on. The bolts are lining up, but something is preventing it from pushing on. If I had a couple of guys to push and pull each side while I watched the engine, maybe it'd be easier. I'm thinking that the transmission drive shaft isn't lining up with the crank.


I had the same prob. What's happening is your flywheel is hitting you transmission walls (bell housing). I was told to spin the motor while installing. So push the motor in and spin the motor, push turn, push turn. If you let it bind up once you will have to pull it out a bit just to free it up again.

The flywheel is steel the tranny is not therefore grind what little you missed and freeing the engine and allowing you to bolt it in.

If you have a 6 volt flywheel then this won't help you since the tranny is for a 6 volt flywheel. Maybe you have a 12 volt starter for a 6 volt flywheel in this case.

Hope something here is somewhat of a help.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 11:27 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Grrr... been struggling with the engine for the past 2 hours and can't seem to get it to go on. The bolts are lining up, but something is preventing it from pushing on. If I had a couple of guys to push and pull each side while I watched the engine, maybe it'd be easier. I'm thinking that the transmission drive shaft isn't lining up with the crank.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 07, 2009 6:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I just started grinding down my '66 trans bell housing to accept the new (12v 1835cc 200mm flywheel) engine i got. Funny thing is, I used a spare 200mm flywheel to judge if there's clearance and it fit in before I did any grinding. What exactly needs to be cleared? I'm about to just bolt in the engine and see how it goes.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 10:50 pm    Post subject: Re: 12 Volt Conversion Reply with quote

cdel8179 wrote:
I have had this procedure done to a 65 Bug. The Beetle barn in Vegas actually did it I shelled out the cash for new Clutch plate, 12 V Flywheel, Autostick starter, throw out bearing, endplay adjustment and a transmission grind.
as soon as I fired it up it ran fine until I added some gas it developed a shudder or slight vibration in a higher rpm that definitely was not their before. I am wondering if anyone has seen this before (barely noticeable especially if you have not ridden in the car before). I posted when it first happened in 2005 but no one had a good answer. I was wondering if the flywheel could be out of balance or if the Clutch was not installed correctly would it cause something like this to happen?

The mechanic at the beetle barn said my crank was out of balance. Of course I have not cracked the case to see the condition.
My buddy thinks if the crank was out it would be worse.


Either or both could cause the problem, the flywheel could be out of balance or the pressure plate could be installed incorrectly. The crank was not changed, so itís unlikely to be the problem.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 20, 2009 9:35 pm    Post subject: 12 Volt Conversion Reply with quote

I have had this procedure done to a 65 Bug. The Beetle barn in Vegas actually did it I shelled out the cash for new Clutch plate, 12 V Flywheel, Autostick starter, throw out bearing, endplay adjustment and a transmission grind.
as soon as I fired it up it ran fine until I added some gas it developed a shudder or slight vibration in a higher rpm that definitely was not their before. I am wondering if anyone has seen this before (barely noticeable especially if you have not ridden in the car before). I posted when it first happened in 2005 but no one had a good answer. I was wondering if the flywheel could be out of balance or if the Clutch was not installed correctly would it cause something like this to happen?

The mechanic at the beetle barn said my crank was out of balance. Of course I have not cracked the case to see the condition.
My buddy thinks if the crank was out it would be worse.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 5:30 pm    Post subject: Re: 12 volt conversion Reply with quote

Teeroy wrote:
Yes a 6volt starter will work on 12 volt (it just spins faster)
Note that the solenoid engages so fast that the starter gear will collide with your flywheel. The best way to do it on a budget is to run a 6v starter with a 12v solenoid. They appear to be interchangeable?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 14, 2009 4:30 pm    Post subject: 12v conversion Reply with quote

I talked to a vw shop that used to work on bugs all the time and they made a tool out of a old flywheel and a adapter to install on a drill. And they used the flywheel to grind out the case. I am going to call them and see if they still have it. Cause I need to do mine too.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 13, 2009 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

61bug wrote:
Has anyone tried to bolt up the motor and spin it free hand to make the flywheel fit? then take it out and clean it up.... I was told this is a good way as well??? Any thoughts?


The only way this works is if you have already ground down some of the bell housing. I had mine to a good point and still was hitting. I didn't think ahead and get a template made before I sent off the block and stuff to our local VW shop. The mechanic said to spin the motor to while putting it place to grind any bit of interference out of the way. Sorry but I didn't take any picks on it either. But I will once I stick the motor in a 63. I will take picks then but It will be a while.
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