Seam Rust (Help?)

[DanJReed]

Well, I did some reading, a lot of reading, and I got up the balls to take out my evil soaked/wet/soggy fiberglass insualtion out of my Westy.

Of course I was too late, and yes, the vans rust from the inside out. We all know that - but now I am looking to "fix" some rust, or at least slow it down so I can later put the van in a cryogenitic state until they come out with a cure.

So, here's my game plan. Clean out seam rust on inside, coat/slather with POR 15, then coat with Kool-Patch as per - http://www.type2.com/library/heat/heat-soundproof.html
And add some foam board insualtion to keep down some noise.

But I have some questions.

Foam sealant, ya know the expanding stuff. Can I blow this crap down into the door-beams behind the driver and passenger. I have seam rust down in there, but have no way to get at it. Will this stuff (foam) - keep water out, and not expand and blow out metal?

I also found seam rust under the rear "fender" where the seam (factory) sealer is worn out. I plan to coat this with Kool-Patch as well after I clean it (and the rust) off. I'll paint the rust first, then coat with Kool-Patch.

I found major rust - (no biggie, I could stick my hand in it) behind the sink/stove from rotting fiberglass - I sealed up the flue-vent and ports with GE Silicone II (turned out pretty nice). The metal is shot, and well, its really really gone. I am honetly thinking of filling this with foam, and then cutting off the dead metal, zinc primer, paint, POR 15 the other metal I can't get to. Kool-Patch it, and then *screw* or *rivit* down a peice of sheet metal on top of it. I gotta do something to keep the critters out.

SO. My other question is what did VW use (or should I use) to replace the body seam filler. I hear Bondo is crap and I want to avoid it at all costs...

Any advice is welcome.

-Dan
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-Dan
(87 Westy Vanagon, 98 Jetta GLS 2.0, 95 Golf Sport)

[weinerwagen]

I used that foam sealant once on a 59 Ford F-100 that was slowly dissolving into a pile of dust. When the sun hit the foam, it got hard and cracked. Good stop gap but not a permanant solution. Also it took out weak areas as it hardened....but, considering the area of rust, it was a good stop gap solution

Hemmings Motor News has a distributor has has some product that takes the rust, removes it, seals it, and you can paint over it.....

I'm going to give it a try myself when my twin Cortina GT's get over here from Ireland. I'm told one has rust on the rear deck and pan...

Before I begin to cut away and weld back. I'm gunna try the easy way out first
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Retired attorney--Tort King.

[supplicationjam]

The insulating spray foam is supposed to be closed cell and it is on the outside edges. In other words if you spray a blob on some wax paper and let it dry it will not absorb water because it has a hard outer shell BUT if you puncture that shell and hold it under water it will absorb water like a sponge! I'd use it on a house to seal and insulate but I don't know how it would work in a moving vehicle.

On the seam filler there are some really good paintable silicones made nowadays.

Please keep us posted on your progress.

[DanJReed]

Ok, so foam is a bad idea.

I'm honestly thinking that the rust is SO bad on the drivers side (I mean, its a hole) that I doubt that its out of my scope of doing/$. I mean, I suck at body work.

I guess I am really just trying to keep it from rusting more, or slowing it down.
_________________
-Dan
(87 Westy Vanagon, 98 Jetta GLS 2.0, 95 Golf Sport)

[CF]

dan give it a shot , we all learn from our mistakes , try por 15 . it's very good and simple to use ,just messy. . have fun doing it and good luck trying it .you can see my mistakes at the beach show in july.

[supplicationjam]

Here's a good thread on Por 15 vs. Rust Bullet vs. Zero Rust from the body section.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=63712

There's no easy way to fight certain death

[mightyart]

The correct way would be stripping everything away from the rust area, cut out as much as you can, mig weld in new metal, clean as much of the remaining small rust areas as you can, then paint it all with a good coat of por-15.
I tried this once on a 280z I bought, and said to myself never again, the car was to far gone. After welding floor boards and frame rails in and spending way to much on rust converter that didn't work to well I starting finding thin spots in the back. So I gave up and used the foam and stuff like you are thinking about, sealed the car all up for winter driving for the next few years. Now of course I only used the foam and stuff to keep the car on the road a few more years. I knew when I was done with it it was going to the junkyard, I wasn't going to stick someone else with it. So that's where the poor little car went.
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My Art:
http://www.instagram.com/flynn8552/

[DanJReed]

Ok, so the foam is out. That was my idea, and I am glad that I'm not going to try it.

Today I added some Rustolium (sp) "Rust Refomer" to some of the inner seams that I'll have a hard time cleaning out. So far it turned the rust into a black sealed mass.

I plan to paint it after waiting a few days and then I might POR-15 over it, but I feel that at least getting the rustulation (rusty insulation) out was a good first step.

While I can weld, I have a small gassless MIG. And I'm "OK" with it, my welds are pretty ugly but strong. And the fact is the seam on the drivers side is SO FAR GONE that I'll have to do some major reconstruction to get it back to normal...

On the upside, I don't drive the van at all in the winter. So road salt is not a factor (nor do I ever see it being one in the future as long as I own it..)

It just sucks that this really cool vehicle must fall prey to bad design that rots it apart 20 years down the road...
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-Dan
(87 Westy Vanagon, 98 Jetta GLS 2.0, 95 Golf Sport)

[supplicationjam]

[DanJReed]

Well thanks for pointing that out. I guess after 20 years anything other then a stone would need maintaince.

I feel a little better, I mean, at least none of this is a "gee I wonder..." to me anymore.
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-Dan
(87 Westy Vanagon, 98 Jetta GLS 2.0, 95 Golf Sport)

[supplicationjam]

Dan I'd love to know how you're rust battle is going. Although some seam rust can be caused by hook up leaks and leaks like you had, Terry K. told me that a lot of seam rust is caused by the sealer that VW originally used. He said it is breaking down and absorbing moisture. Terry said he cleaned out his seams, then blasted them, etched them, primed them and used 3M Automix Heavy-Bodied Seam Sealer

Two-part epoxy, heavy-body seam sealer for use in vertical or horizontal seams to match OEM sealers. Non-sagging, non-flowing, and excellent tooling. Fast cure-through. Paintable in 30 minutes to increase productivity. Apply directly over primed metal-matches OEM seams. Flexible over a wide range of temperatures. No shrinkage, cracking or outgassing. Work time = 10 minutes. Paintable = 30 minutes.

I'm going to be undertaking this on my van and will update.
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87 Westy, DiscoII
Gunny, CO.

[DanJReed]

Well, you can check out my website!

Turned out OK. Better yet, no more leaks = no more rust.

The trick is to take a deep breath and remove the cracked OEM seam sealer and then re-coat it (primer) then use a modern sealer.

http://faculty.ccp.edu/faculty/dreed/Campingart/vanagon/


_________________
-Dan
(87 Westy Vanagon, 98 Jetta GLS 2.0, 95 Golf Sport)