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bciesq Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 495 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 5:04 am Post subject: New Thing owner -- lots of Qs |
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First of all, thanks to everyone who contributes here – I’ve been lurking for a while and this forum is one of those resources that made my decision to get a Thing much easier.
Here’s the story: the ’73 Thing that I purchased was out of state, so I had my brother-in-law (who lived near the car and is very mechanically inclined but not VW-savy) check out the car. When he gave it a clean bill of health, I purchased it. When I arrived to drive the car home, I noticed several things:
• The gas heater had been replaced with a ’74 style heat exchanger and earmuffs.
• The exhaust was a new Thing Shop split header design with the tail pipes through the bumpers.
• The new (rebuilt) 1600 engine has the following unusual specs: single port, Pict 30/31 carb.
• Needs a hand brake cable (not a big deal).
• Very sloppy shifter (needs a bushing I guess – not a big deal).
• Rear torsion bar seized (car lists to the right – I’ll need help with this).
• Rear brake drum(s) are out of round (I assume that it is in the rear since the pulsing doesn’t come through the steering wheel when I apply the brakes – probably happened when the hand brake cable seized).
In driving the car, I can say that it performs remarkably well. The steering is tight and smooth. While the car is not peppy (duh), it can get up to 75 mph and I cruised at 65 with no problem on a long trip (it obviously doesn’t have a reduction gear). The most shocking discovery – the old girl gets almost 30 miles to the gallon (this has been checked over several tanks of fuel).
So while I welcome all comments, I have the following specific questions:
• I like the updated heater and the Thing Shop exhaust, but I have no clue as to how I am going to adjust the valves. I can get the cover off, but it is so tight in there that I can barely check the exhaust valves and the intake valves are next to impossible. Forget about making adjustments. Am I just being crybaby, or is this setup a PITA to work with? Should I just get used to the idea that the exhaust will have to be removed at each valve adjustment? If so, how often should I get new bits and pieces to fasten the exhaust (I assume that the fasteners will not take repeated removal/reinstallations)?
• The carb has the vacuum port blocked off running a 009 dizzy with the characteristic flat spot. I think that I would like to update this with an SVDA setup. Has anyone installed the Compufire points replacement kit and SVDA dizzy from aircooled.net? While I was initially disappointed that the engine is single port (I wanted to go to a chokeless dual carb setup), it runs so well (other than the flat spot) that I’m developing a “if it ain’t broke don’t fix it” attitude.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions and my apologies for the length of my maiden post.
Ben |
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ztnoo Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 801 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:02 am Post subject: New Thing owner -- lots of Qs |
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Ben,
Since I just did this last night for the first time myself, I thought I'd pass my thoughts along.
First, since you didn't specifically mention if you know the valve procedure, go to this link, print it off, then burn it into your brain.
This is the simplest, most straightforward explanation I have read anywhere.
Valve Adjustment 101:
http://www.glenn-ring.com/tech/valve_adjustment.htm
Second, get the rear end jacked up as high as you can and secured adequately with proper floor stands.
I'm a big guy...6'4", 240 lbs., with wide shoulders, a substantial chest, and big beefy hands. I need room to maneuver. I can't do it in a tight confined space.
Getting the rear high off the floor allows me at least a chance to move around with reasonable ease.
Third, set yourself up with extremely good light under the vehicle. I used the hardware store clamp-on variety with 300 w bulbs. and had two lights under the vehicle and good overall light around the back of the vehicle.
I'm a trim carpenter by trade and having good light to work by has always been a fetish of mine. There will be times because of the tightness of the confined space, you will partially obscure even good lighting with your hands, but without it, you'll be howling at the moon to get the job done.
Forth, the Thing I was working on was a '73, but with the original two muffler set-up. I had no problem getting the valve cover bales off.
I had about 3" of clearance between the adjustment studs and the mufflers on each side. You'll need either a stubby slotted screwdriver or a small low profile ratcheting screwdriver to loosen and hold the studs while tightening the lock nut.
I have another '73 and a '74, both with heater boxes on them, and while I haven't gotten to the valve adjustment on these vehicles in my maintenance program (See: Three Things In Hoosierland), it would appear to me the access to these will be much better because the boxes are essentially below the valve train area, leaving the sides completely open for access to the studs and lock nuts.
If your exhaust system is preventing good access to the valve train, perhaps this is good reason to consider a system which allows better access. Since valve adjustment and proper gapping is one of the most critical things on air-cooled VW engines, the easier the access, the more inclined one is to check things at regular intervals. If it takes removal of the exhaust system to get the job done, a job that would normally take only a short time, could turn into a day of crawling around, skinning your knuckles and, muttering obscenities at aftermarket products.
Wishing you good luck with your venture.
ztnoo |
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bciesq Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 495 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 7:43 am Post subject: Re: New Thing owner -- lots of Qs |
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ztnoo-
Thanks for the detailed response. Although I have some experience with adjusting valves on air-cooled VWs, the confined space on this rig is daunting. I'll try again this weekend with better (smaller) tools, better lighting and with the car up on ramps.
Ben |
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radioman Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2004 Posts: 430 Location: Irmo, SC
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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I am struck by the single port engine and the 30-31 carb. That is not stock. As for the valve adjustment...I put a Thing Shop header dual muffler set up and used it for about 8 months. Setting the valves was indeed a PITA but CAN be done without removing the exhaust. I used a 90 degree slotted screwdriver...a cheap little "L" shaped thing. But it was such a PITA that I removed that exhaust and put on a common BugPac extractor. Thing Shop is a great place but their dual muffler system is for the birds. A new shift rod bushing and rod connector at the rear will do wonders for your sloppy shifting. I struggled with mine for four months, replaced the shifter bushing (~$3.00) and BIG improvement. Welcome to the world of Things! _________________ It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill |
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Pinky Samba Ass Bandit
Joined: December 31, 2003 Posts: 554
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Posted: Wed Apr 13, 2005 3:46 pm Post subject: Re: New Thing owner -- lots of Qs |
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bciesq wrote: |
• The gas heater had been replaced with a ’74 style heat exchanger and earmuffs.
• The exhaust was a new Thing Shop split header design with the tail pipes through the bumpers.
Ben |
Look down into the vents of the muffs- does it still have the 73 style louvres inside? If so then that's pretty weird that someone would slap muffs on. You may actually have a 74 that is titled incorrectly or something, or an extremely late 73. Does the dash have the cut outs for the gas heater timer by the headlights and defroster switch by the glove box? If not you've got a 74 on your hands.
Yes I've owned a Thing shop divided header system and I agree- they're a pain in the ass. I could slip my hands in where most couldn't, but it was still a pain. I made sure they went with the car when I sold it. Check out german motor works or Kymco- they have some pretty good exhaust systems for a Thing. |
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bciesq Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 495 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:34 am Post subject: |
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radioman wrote: |
I am struck by the single port engine and the 30-31 carb. That is not stock. |
I know. I was aware that the previous owner had recently replaced the engine, but I didn't know that the setup was so odd. I'll say this, it's a quality motor and a quality installation. I can't complain about the performance (other than the 009 flat spot) and the 30 mpg is much better than I anticipated. The engine tin looks good except for one passenger side piece where the heater tube comes through the "floor" on its way from the doghouse to the exchanger. It's a little ragged. Is it a big deal if there is a small hole in the "floor" of the engine compartment?
radioman wrote: |
As for the valve adjustment...I put a Thing Shop header dual muffler set up and used it for about 8 months. Setting the valves was indeed a PITA but CAN be done without removing the exhaust. I used a 90 degree slotted screwdriver...a cheap little "L" shaped thing. But it was such a PITA that I removed that exhaust and put on a common BugPac extractor. |
I think that I'll start by removing the exhaust when I adjust the valves. I've messed around with aircooled VWs, but this is the first one that I've owned and I need to get my comfort level up on valve adjustments before I can do it practically blind and in a confined space. We'll see how long I can tolerate this setup.
Thanks for the response.
Ben
PS I'm a native of SC (Mama still lives in Hartsville, sis in Charleston, brother in Florence) and graduated from USC. Is Gooney Birds still selling those huge sandwiches in Irmo? |
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bciesq Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 495 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 4:44 am Post subject: Re: New Thing owner -- lots of Qs |
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Pinky wrote: |
bciesq wrote: |
• The gas heater had been replaced with a ’74 style heat exchanger and earmuffs.
• The exhaust was a new Thing Shop split header design with the tail pipes through the bumpers.
Ben |
Look down into the vents of the muffs- does it still have the 73 style louvres inside? If so then that's pretty weird that someone would slap muffs on. You may actually have a 74 that is titled incorrectly or something, or an extremely late 73. Does the dash have the cut outs for the gas heater timer by the headlights and defroster switch by the glove box? If not you've got a 74 on your hands. |
It's just weird. The VIN starts out 183, there are louvres in the engine compartment, the dash has cutouts for the gas heater and there are bits and pieces in the trunk for the heater. I'll say this. The new heater system works well, I just need to figure out how to get some hot air up to the windshield for a defogger -- or keep towels in the car. |
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radioman Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2004 Posts: 430 Location: Irmo, SC
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 5:32 am Post subject: |
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Ben: Naw...Gooney Birds closed in Irmo several years ago. I think they still have a place in Lexington. While my mailing address is Irmo, we actually live closer to Balletine, near an area (not a town) known to locals as Springhill.
Roger on the engine. If it runs good and does the job..super. As for the hole, it should be a simple matter to get a piece of tin, cut a good fitting patch and pop rivet it in place. The better the rubber engine area seals and tin fit, the better cooling. Ah yes...the dreaded flat spot. I have a brand new 009 that I tried on my stock 1600 (73) but it will not work with my stock 34PICT3 carby. Iwent back to a stock vacuum dist. However you should with some careful tweaking be able to make the 009 work with your 30. That was the set up on my son's Baja. Take a look at Rob and Daves site at www.vw-resource.com for good procedures and advice. They are bugs and supers, but much of their experience applies to Things. _________________ It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill |
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bciesq Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 495 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Thu Apr 14, 2005 7:42 pm Post subject: |
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Ahhh, now I feel like a real Thing owner. The old girl cut out on me while running around town today. When I got her off of the road, I noticed that of the two in-line fuel filters, one of them was high and dry.
So, a couple of new questions:
1. How many of you have had the fuel tank cleaned and treated? How much did it cost?
2. What's the consensus on in-line fuel filters? My understanding is that VWs didn't come from the factory with in-line filters (relying on screens in the fuel pump and in the carb). Do most of you have them? If so, where are they installed? I've read that it is much safer to have the filters outside of the engine bay, but I'm looking at two of these things in mine.
Thanks in advance for any response.
Ben |
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radioman Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2004 Posts: 430 Location: Irmo, SC
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:19 am Post subject: |
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Never had to clean my tank. Thank goodness for one small victory. Re: fuel filters, I have two: one in the front just before the line splits to go to the heater pump and the regular metal gas line at the tunnel. A second is in the left rear wheel well area just before the fuel line attaches to the metal line going to the engine compartment. Both are metal and I tag them with an install date. Replace every two years. I have been told that the filter should not be in the engine compartment for fire reasons (the weight may make the fuel line fall off) but I use radiator style screw clamps on EVERY fuel line connection EVERYWHERE. New braided VW fuel line is expensive but now might be a good time to start at the front (tank) and replaced every section of flex fuel line (use the little screw clamps) and all the braided vaccum lines in the engine compartment. The vaccum is smaller dia than fuel. Mike Basso and others have this line. _________________ It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill |
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bciesq Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 495 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 4:53 am Post subject: |
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radioman wrote: |
Both are metal and I tag them with an install date. Replace every two years. |
Thanks. My fuel filters are made of clear plastic (is this what is referred to as a "lantern" filter?). Since I don't know how old they are and I am moving them anyway, I can easily replace them with metal filters (I assume the metal ones are more durable -- though the clear plastic made troubleshooting much easier). Where do you get your metal filters? Are the filters at thingsunlimited (FUEL FILTER (UNIVERSAL) STOCK# 803201511C) metal?
Thanks again for the response.
Ben |
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radioman Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2004 Posts: 430 Location: Irmo, SC
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Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 6:34 am Post subject: |
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Don't know the composition of Mike's filters. I get mine at my CarQuest parts store...just generic 1/4 inch metal cans about 2"long and an inch in dia. Before someone jumps me....I know that genuine VW fuel line is just a bit smaller than 1/4.....but thse filters fit fine and I use clamps everywhere. Plus I buy them cheap 3 miles from my house. I get the clamps there also and suprisingly some other parts that are available for the Thing or intercahnge with the Super Beetle....like brake parts. No ordering, no shipping and if it ain't right, its easy to exchange. (plus I have been going so long, I get a shop discount.) _________________ It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill |
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bciesq Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 495 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 7:51 am Post subject: |
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Just wanted to thank ztnoo, Pinky and radioman for their advice and words of encouragement w/r/t adjusting the valves around the thingshop exhaust.
I put the car on ramps Friday night and attacked the job armed with lighting an "L" shaped flathead screwdriver and a better attitude. Two hours later (after carefully loosening 5 out of 8 valves!) I was done.
All in all it was a very productive "Thing" day: I also changed the oil and installed a thingshop trailer hitch (I have a light kayak trailer). My girlfriend and buddies think I'm crazy, but even though I was sore and bleeding (from the trailer hitch install), it was a great day and the reward on Sunday (drove from Naples to Sanibel/Captiva for the day) was icing on the cake.
Thanks again for all the advice and encouragement.
Ben |
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radioman Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2004 Posts: 430 Location: Irmo, SC
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:21 am Post subject: |
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AIN'T IT GREAT !!!! _________________ It's a Southern Thing, 73, stock.
Bill |
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ztnoo Samba Member
Joined: March 23, 2005 Posts: 801 Location: Indiana
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 10:52 am Post subject: New Thing owner -- lots of Qs |
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Ben,
Super! Glad you got the job done and retained your sanity too.
Care to join me in the replacement of three broke off exhaust studs, one well worn exhaust stud, and a exhaust head stud hole crossed threaded with a American self tapping bolt?
It should be quite an experience.
I'll report on my mental status upon completion on the job.
Regards,
ztnoo |
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bciesq Samba Member
Joined: April 13, 2005 Posts: 495 Location: Orlando, FL
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Posted: Mon Apr 18, 2005 11:00 am Post subject: Re: New Thing owner -- lots of Qs |
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ztnoo wrote: |
Care to join me in the replacement of three broke off exhaust studs, one well worn exhaust stud, and a exhaust head stud hole crossed threaded with a American self tapping bolt? |
Ummm ... no.
But I will follow your thread so I'll know how to deal with exhausts in the future. To place my refusal in context, I briefly toyed with removing my exhaust to make more room for the valve adjustment. I got one side halfway off before I realized what a dumb idea it was.
Good luck with your project and thanks for the detailed posts of your progress, I always learn something from them.
Ben |
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