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penthink
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Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 288
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 Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 3:23 pm Post subject: clutch weirdness |
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So when I pulled the old Vanagon engine out of my '75 Westy and replaced it with a 78 engine, I pulled the clutch and pressure plate off the old engine and put it on the 78. I also installed a new throwout bearing. Got everything back in and got her running pretty nice, but now I can't go anywhere because my clutch will not disengage (or is it engage?). Here are some clues that something is awry:
1) When not running, engine is impossible to turn by hand or by wrench on the alternator shaft (as you do when you are trying to get to the "high point" in your distributor) as if the tranny were in gear.
2) Even with the clutch pedal adjuster wound all the way tight so there is no play in the clutch pedal, the clutch will not allow the car to go into gear when the engine is running. The shifter pops into all gears smoothly when not running.
3) The clutch lever that sticks out of the transmission has far less movement than the one on my Kombi does. Of course the engine is out of my Kombi right now, so I have no way of knowing if that has an effect.
All this added up tells me this something is weird with the clutch/pressure plate/throwout bearing area, and that I am going to have to pull the engine and inspect it.
Anyone had any or all of these symptoms?
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Fri Apr 15, 2005 5:52 pm Post subject: |
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I am going to bump this up to the top (since I have a feeling we might be ito it deep tomorrow and my back isn't what it used to be). Need some thoughts here.
My only plan (short of pulling the engine to inspect it) is to change out the clutch cable to make sure the one that is in there has not stretched.
I figured we would also have a good look at the bowden tube to see if that is OK.
Is it physically possible to put the throwout bearing in backwards? I don't think so myself.
Why would the engine turn over with the starter, but not by hand even with the plugs out? |
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twinfalls
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Joined: November 21, 2003
Posts: 2133
Location: France
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 11:44 am Post subject: |
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This behavior indicates a solid link between shafts; No declutching at all.
I had this with:
The pilot bearing broken into pieces.
or
The clutch disk stuck after a long humid storage.
When you turn the engine. Is your gearbox in neutal ? Have you tried with parking brake off to see if turning the engine moves the bus ?
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Stock 1974 US Westy, AW-A 1800cc dual carbs. Twin Falls is my favorite site on the Churchill river in Manitoba. |
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ratwell
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Joined: April 26, 2003
Posts: 8717
Location: Victoria, BC
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| Posted: Sat Apr 16, 2005 10:54 pm Post subject: |
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| twinfalls wrote: |
| The clutch disk stuck after a long humid storage. |
That's what happened to my original clutch after a 7 year siesta.
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'78 Westfalia CDN
'76 Doublecab
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twinfalls
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Joined: November 21, 2003
Posts: 2133
Location: France
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 2:16 am Post subject: |
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Clutch stuck:
I had it several times winter storing my bus in a leaky roof barn.
With the roof fixed for good, and thanks to plenty of natural ventilation, I rarely have the stuck clutch anymore, and it's easy to unstuck.
Ground is dirt, I put thick slabs of styrofoam under the clutch housing, I do not know if that stops moisture from the ground to sneak in.
Is there a better trick ? Would a cement pavement stop this trouble for good ?
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Stock 1974 US Westy, AW-A 1800cc dual carbs. Twin Falls is my favorite site on the Churchill river in Manitoba. |
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penthink
Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 288
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 3:36 am Post subject: |
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| twinfalls wrote: |
This behavior indicates a solid link between shafts; No declutching at all.
I had this with:
The pilot bearing broken into pieces.
or
The clutch disk stuck after a long humid storage.
When you turn the engine. Is your gearbox in neutal ? Have you tried with parking brake off to see if turning the engine moves the bus ? |
I just put the clutch and pressure plate in, so I can't imagine that it is stuck due to moisture. When I try to turn the engine by hand, the engine is in neutral with the e-brake off. Also, if I put it in gear and turn the key, it definitely jolts the bus forward, so at some point, that clutch is doing its job. It's a weird mystery.
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Randy in Maine
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Joined: August 03, 2003
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Location: The Beach
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:00 am Post subject: |
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I have been thinking about this for a while.
I seem to remember reading someplace (maybe here) that when a vanagon engine is installed in a earlier bus (like this 75), sometimes they cut about 3/4" off the transmission shaft to get it to fit correctly.
The PO of this bus just kind of cobbled it all together and I am not so sure that he would have gone to that trouble to do it correctly and as I recall I didn't see any evidence of it (like a poor cut) when we replaced the input shaft seal. It all looked normal to my untrained eye.
For some reason this bus also uses an automatic starter, but I don't know why that is.
I am thinking we need to pull the engine, examine the clutch set up and perhaps swap it out with the 78 transmission including the pressure plate, clutch, starter and flywheel if we have to.
I will be over about 9. |
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twinfalls
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Joined: November 21, 2003
Posts: 2133
Location: France
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:06 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
| Also, if I put it in gear and turn the key, it definitely jolts the bus forward |
It jolts forward, and I guess the engine stalls. Like it would do, if you started your engine with a gear engaged.
Of course, you have no moisture trouble. But I do think something is jamming the shafts together. Could be jammed because some foreign object jams the disk and pressure plate together. Could be jammed because pilot bearing debris jam the crankshaft and tranny primary shaft together.
I bet for the pilot bearing jam, which is a vicious one since you can have times when the debris don't jam anymore. May be you banged the bearing onto the tranny shaft when you put the engine back.
However, I see no explanation to: Cannot rotate engine from alternator pulley, and can rotate engine from starter.
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Stock 1974 US Westy, AW-A 1800cc dual carbs. Twin Falls is my favorite site on the Churchill river in Manitoba. |
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penthink
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Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 288
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:07 am Post subject: |
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The coffee pot will be on.
Also, since I read in another thread that you will be switching over to dual carbs, I would like to have your fuel injection. Remember Randy, K.I.S.S.
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twinfalls
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Joined: November 21, 2003
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Location: France
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:18 am Post subject: |
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No FI.
My 74 is a february 1974 with dual carbs. FI started on august 1974.
I switched from stock US to stock Euros. Who wants a 20 years old EGR and afterburner .
I will keep carbs for 40 years more, until gas will be NLA.
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Stock 1974 US Westy, AW-A 1800cc dual carbs. Twin Falls is my favorite site on the Churchill river in Manitoba. |
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penthink
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Joined: November 23, 2004
Posts: 288
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| Posted: Sun Apr 17, 2005 4:26 am Post subject: |
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| twinfalls wrote: |
No FI.
My 74 is a february 1974 with dual carbs. FI started on august 1974.
I switched from stock US to stock Euros. Who wants a 20 years old EGR and afterburner .
I will keep carbs for 40 years more, until gas will be NLA. |
Sorry about that - I was talking to Randy. Although the coffee pot will be on this morning, in the case that you "stop by." I would guess that would be a long trip for you though. 
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