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physast
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Joined: December 30, 2005
Posts: 675
Location: DC
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 Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 11:09 am Post subject: confessions of a gas tank & radiator install (with tips) |
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We purchased our van (poptart) earlier this year and have since put over 5K miles on her. Just recently we had a coolant hose pop off due to the all familiar plastic coolant line brass fitting rusting out. So I decided it was time to replace the old plastic lines with stainless steel. one thing led to another and I ended up replacing.
- all radiator hoses/pipes
- radiator
- gas tank
- fuel lines
I first dropped the gas tank. This is when I noticed that the gas tank needed to be replaced, so I purchased one from van-cafe.
TIPS:
- unplug the hoses going to the overflow tanks and take out the fuel filler neck before dropping the tank
- jack the front of the car up with a floor jack or ramps.
- a floor jack is useful for helping with dropping the tank.
- when the back of the tank is dropped a few inches reach in and unplug the sender wire
- my crossover tube must have popped out on it's own
After the gas tank was out I drained the coolant and pulled off the hoses going to the radiator. Then I dropped the radiator.
TIPS:
- I drained from the front radiator hose. This got most of the fluid out (still some left in the tubes)
- jack the front end up so you have room to drop the radiator after draining from the front hose
- now drain from back hoses
- having a friend or floor jack will help drop the radiator
After that I had a friend help me install the new radiator. This was not as hard as I was expecting it to be.
TIPS:
- A friend or floor jack helps
- be sure to install the 4 rubber washers on the 'nipples'
- I then installed the front radiator hoses
I then replaced the plastic coolant lines with the stainless steel pipes
TIPS:
- the pipes were marked so it was easy to match them up (I purchased the two piece pipe set)
- do one pipe at a time to help replace the right ones (pictures help to)
- use good hose clamps (I used Breeze constant torque SS clamps)
- use good tie wraps to keep the pipes in place and so they don't rattle
- now is a good time to replace bad hoses so check them all
I then painted the new gas tank with a primer and rust encapsulator paint. Then I did bedliner paint on the bottom of the tank
TIPS:
- I uses eastwood paint and por 15 bedliner
- scuff the tank and make sure the tank is cleaned/degreased before painting
- cover up all holes with some blue/green painters tape
I then resealed the tank with a sealing kit from one of the vendors
TIPS:
- the kit I purchased did not come with the expansion tank rubber gaskets
- purchase new rollover valves if needed
- purchase correct rated fuel line (I used Gates 27348 for fuel lines and Gates 27313 for the vapor/expansion system)
- I didn't use sealant for the fittings
- I did use white lithium grease to help install the expansion tank fittings
- I installed all gaskets on the tank and expansion tank and then did a pressure test with air to make sure it was air tight
- when installing the new sending unit I bent the leading edges of the tank stems up slightly and used gowesty's advice and trimmed the new sending unit plastic some after noticing it getting caught. I also used white lithium grease on the round gasket to help install
WARNING NEXT STEP IS A PITA!!!!
I then installed the gas tank and expansion tanks. The big PITA is the crossover tube. This step took me two days. I tried all different techniques (push in after tank install, leave room and push the drivers side in then install and push the passenger side in) nothing worked! Mainly because my van has AC so the drivers side wheel wells are blocked.
TIPS:
- I jacked the front of the car up and used jack stands
- after sitting the front of the tank on the lip I propped up the back of the tank and checked that all lines from the tank ran through to the wheel wells
- plug the sending unit wire into the tank while back of tank is propped up
- push the tank up into frame and prop up the tank with something at this point it's time to try and install the crossover tube
- I installed the crossover tube plastic fittings into the tank and left the tube out then after the tank was installed pushed the tube through and slid the tube onto the the drivers side plastic fitting the passenger (this was the only way I could do it)
- be sure to put the tube in the hook attached to the frame to keep it from rubbing on anything
After securing the tank in place with the brackets I then installed the expansion tanks
TIPS:
- i used the gates hose to attach to the rollover valve then to the plastic evap tube. I did this because I did not have enough evap tube after cutting it to take the old rollover valve off
- I used hose clamps because the gates was not a tight fit
- I also couldn't get the expansion tanks into the molded fitting in the wheel well, but they seem secure with just the bolt. I will likely re-visit this
- I used lithium grease to help get the filler neck into the tank
So now the gas tank is installed so I changed all fuel lines to the gates correct rated lines and purchased a 12mm line from van cafe for the tank to pump line.
Next is to flush coolant system with water and fill with 50/50 phosphate free coolant and bleed. I plan bleeding and checking for leaks with a bike pump. I will report back on the outcome.
I have not yet filled the tank up to check for leaks either but will report back in a few days to hopefully confirm that there is no leaks.
more TIPS:
- make sure you have what you need before starting the job (tools and parts)
- take it slow and mark hoses parts ect.. so you can re-install correctly later
- be prepared to get disgusted and take breaks
- I also used a wax type spray to protect the underneath of the car while doing this job
- don't expect your GF or wife to help
The whole job took me about a week working on this after work for about 4 hours a day, so about 16 hours which included painting the tank.
Hope this helps someone at some point. I may have left some steps out, but wanted to write down my experience for someone else taking on the job.
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1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L |
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dobryan
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physast
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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It has been satisfying.. The real satisfying part will be when every thing works and no leaks are found!
Thanks for the heads up on the signature, done! 
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1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L |
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:05 pm Post subject: |
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| It sounds like you are planning to fill the cooling system and then bleed it and leak check it before restarting? This could lead to problems with air being trapped in the system - the recommended way is to fill, bleed and leak test all at once by starting the engine and using the water pump to fill the system and to bleed from the radiator and rear bleed valve as you go. I did this recently with a couple of helpers (one to keep filling up the tank and one to hold the engine at 2000RPM while I ran around doing the bleeding and checking for leaks) - it was a little nerve wracking but worked well. |
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Viva.Sabata
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Location: Alaska
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| Posted: Wed Nov 05, 2014 7:46 pm Post subject: |
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10-4 on getting help from the SO. HOWEVER, I found that two teens helps - one manning the throttle and another monitoring the bleed port. I filled and checked for leaks.
One tip - be sure to put the reservoir cap on before lowering RPM!
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Sabata
1987 Westy Full Camper, Peloquin 5-Speed 2wd |
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physast
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Posts: 675
Location: DC
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:11 am Post subject: |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| It sounds like you are planning to fill the cooling system and then bleed it and leak check it before restarting? This could lead to problems with air being trapped in the system - the recommended way is to fill, bleed and leak test all at once by starting the engine and using the water pump to fill the system and to bleed from the radiator and rear bleed valve as you go. I did this recently with a couple of helpers (one to keep filling up the tank and one to hold the engine at 2000RPM while I ran around doing the bleeding and checking for leaks) - it was a little nerve wracking but worked well. |
I was planning on fill/flushing/filling the system by:
Fill/Bleed:
1. fill with distilled waterand use a bike pump to get as much air out of the system as possible.
2. run the engine and therefore pump to get the water flowing with heater turned on.
3. fill with more water as needed also using the pump.
4. repeat steps 2 and 3 until happy that no air is in the system
Check for leaks:
1. using pump give about 15 psi of pressure and walk around looking for leaks
2. fix leaks if needed
drain/fill:
1. drain water from system (as much as possible)
2. start all over this time using 50/50 phosphate free coolant
I think this should be fine. Maybe not the best way but should work, correct?
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1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L |
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physast
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Posts: 675
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 11:12 am Post subject: |
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| Viva.Sabata wrote: |
10-4 on getting help from the SO. HOWEVER, I found that two teens helps - one manning the throttle and another monitoring the bleed port. I filled and checked for leaks.
One tip - be sure to put the reservoir cap on before lowering RPM! |
Like clockwork my Wife showed up right as I got the gas tank installed and crossover tube on and said "OK, what can I help with?'  She is good at that.
_________________
1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L |
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
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Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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| physast wrote: |
| Maybe not the best way but should work, correct? |
It may work but it probably will take a lot of pumping on the bike pump and when you start the engine you won't be sure you don't have air in the system which could cause the water pump to run dry. Unlike a conventional car where you are filling from the highest point (the radiator) and relying on gravity to remove the air, you are filling from a low point and have to push water up some vertical legs at each end. Filling and bleeding using the water pump will save time and effort and you will be sure that there is no air left if you do it properly. |
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physast
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Posts: 675
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Mellow Yellow 74 wrote: |
| physast wrote: |
| Maybe not the best way but should work, correct? |
It may work but it probably will take a lot of pumping on the bike pump and when you start the engine you won't be sure you don't have air in the system which could cause the water pump to run dry. Unlike a conventional car where you are filling from the highest point (the radiator) and relying on gravity to remove the air, you are filling from a low point and have to push water up some vertical legs at each end. Filling and bleeding using the water pump will save time and effort and you will be sure that there is no air left if you do it properly. |
True I will make sure that the reservoir is never empty in between steps, always stopping the engine to add water and start pumping again.
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1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L |
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Mellow Yellow 74
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Joined: October 14, 2014
Posts: 1615
Location: Sydney, Australia
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 12:43 pm Post subject: |
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| physast wrote: |
| True I will make sure that the reservoir is never empty in between steps, always stopping the engine to add water and start pumping again. |
You will not fill it properly if you stop the engine before you put the cap on like Viva.Sabata above says, because it will drain back out of the reservoir because this is lower than the top of the radiator - seriously you should save yourself a lot of time and hassle and do it the tried and tested way |
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dobryan
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physast
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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Yes I was thinking about doing it with a libby bong. I actually want to try the bike pump, just to see if it works. The bike pump would be easy to carry in the van at all times which would be nice.
If this doesn't work then the libby bong is next in line.
I can't rev my car in my apartments underground garage for an extended period of time without making people angry. I already feel like I have pushed my luck by spending a week with parts stored under and in the van while doing the work.
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1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L |
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0to60in6min
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Joined: November 27, 2006
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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excellent write up...
BRAVO..
and thanks...
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physast
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Posts: 675
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 5:49 pm Post subject: |
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I installed the fuel tank filler neck today. I was going to start another thread but thought I would post here first since it has to do with the original topic.
To install the filler neck I put some white lithium grease on the neck part that goes into the tank. I did this before trying without.
When installed I was assuming more of the neck would be inserted into the tank. The way it is now it seems like the neck is just barely in farther than the white plastic ball valve thing at the end of the neck. It seems tight, but I can somewhat easily push the neck in further making me scared it will not be tight enough to keep gas from leaking.
Does this seem right? I guess I will find out tomorrow on my first fill, but wanted to see what others say.
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1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L |
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dobryan
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Posts: 16505
Location: Brookeville, MD
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| Posted: Thu Nov 06, 2014 6:34 pm Post subject: |
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| physast wrote: |
Yes I was thinking about doing it with a libby bong. I actually want to try the bike pump, just to see if it works. The bike pump would be easy to carry in the van at all times which would be nice.
If this doesn't work then the libby bong is next in line.
I can't rev my car in my apartments underground garage for an extended period of time without making people angry. I already feel like I have pushed my luck by spending a week with parts stored under and in the van while doing the work. |
Unless you've thrown away that front radiator hose you've still got the old one to use. This method is great in that you don't have to even start the engine to use it. 
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Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
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https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=746794 |
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physast
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| Posted: Fri Nov 07, 2014 3:38 pm Post subject: |
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UPDATE 1:
I filled with distilled water and bleed the coolant lines today. I ended up going the bike pump route which worked. There is still likely some air in the system, but I am going to drain tomorrow and fill again with 50/50 coolant.
Steps with bike pump that I performed:
1. fill coolant tank and put cap on (make sure heater is on)
2. attach bike pump to cap nipple and pump to 15 psi or until you are about to empty tank
3. with cap still attached goto front and loosen radiator bleed screw. You will hear air come out make sure that there is still coolant in the coolant tank.
4. once air stops or coolant is getting low in tank (don't let it empty). Tighten radiator bleed screw, remove coolant cap and repeat steps 1-3 until liquid escapes from the radiator bleed screw and not air or bubbles.
5. attach overflow tube to cap nipple and fill overflow tank to correct level.
6. go for a drive to get the system warmed up and pump going.
7. while running and hot with fan on check radiator bleed screw again for air.
This worked for me, it may not have been the easiest way, but got the job done.
I am going to flush the system tomorrow and fill with 50/50 coolant and check for leaks in the system
Update 2:
I filled poptart up with gas.... No leaks! (as of yet) and also no gas smells (again as of yet)
I will update in about a month to let you know if I still have a leak free system
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1967 L633 VW beetle (currently being restored...slowly)
1991 Orly Blue Vanaru 2.5L |
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dobryan
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