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rickcsvdubs
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2004
Posts: 227
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 Posted: Mon Nov 18, 2019 9:16 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| I have the same question about the bearing cap. The PO put a nick in the cap. Do I need to replace or will the seal still be able to do it’s job. The nick is about 1/8” long and in the center of the cap. Thank you as always for any help. |
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:09 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| ClevVw66 wrote: |
Hello,
..."new to me" 1966 vert...
...I have 64 backing plates and hardware (no weeping hole in housing), I do not have the oil slinger that attaches to the drum. I have removed the seal from the housing and unfortunately uncovered a nice size gash in the cover where the seal lives. My questions are:
Can I still use the bearing cover? or should I purchase a replacement(if even possible)
Do I need to purchase an oil slinger and then drill a hole in the drum to accommodate?
When re-assembling, the consensus is do not use the washer that comes in the kit, correct?
I appreciate any suggestions.
Thanks |
First off in my opinion a better thing to do would be to source all '65-'67 brake and bearing parts meaning from backing plates out.
You can't buy backing plates and bearing covers new, but there are plenty of used ones out there. People who convert to rear discs often sell their old part to recover costs.]
Secondly, no one can honestly answer your question regarding "nice gash" in cover without a picture and same answer applys to rickc'svdubs
Lastly better quality kits come with good washers and yes you should use them as shown in the service manual.
_________________
-Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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rickcsvdubs
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2004
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Tue Nov 19, 2019 9:32 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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Sorry about that I should have included a picture. I was already in the house when I posted this last night. Anyways here is the scrape/nick In the cap
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 6:53 am Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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I wouldn't be too concerned about that nick ^
It's not too deep and it's confined to the middle area so the seal will cover it just fine.
_________________
-Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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rickcsvdubs
Samba Member
Joined: August 25, 2004
Posts: 227
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 12:09 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| Thank you for your reply. Trying to get this portion of the project all fixed up. |
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glutamodo 
The Android
Joined: July 13, 2004
Posts: 26325
Location: Douglas, WY
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 7:18 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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I almost replied before I saw a photo, and that would have been "If you think it might form a channel of leakage, smear some Permatex on it just before you install the seal, otherwise, let it be"
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Andy T.
IMAGE NOTE: It has been noted that Chrome based browsers may have issues in displaying my vast image library, which use non-secure links and are on an FTP server. Images should still be viewable if the link is clicked though.
I do not know how to fix this. All I can say is it all works fine for me with what I use, Firefox. |
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Wed Nov 20, 2019 10:06 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| rickc'svdubs wrote: |
...here is the scrape/nick In the cap...
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Seemingly simple questions like yours and ClevVw66's are easy to answer with a perfect photo reference, so thank you for that!
Nice preliminary clean up work to the cover BTW, just the way we want to see them, nice and shiny. You're putting yourself miles ahead for a leak free job 
If it was deep and long running from outer surface to inner area then it might be a major concern. The outer surface of the seal seldom leaks unless damaged on install or after years of duty cycles that lead to shrinkage.
To take the covers a step further, flat sand them using a piece of 400 wet/dry paper on a hard flat surface like glass or etc (shame on me I use my cheap table saw extension leg to sand mine  ).
This will show any high or low spots on the covers indicating any warping around the bolt holes from say overtightening or other stresses and give the gasket optimal chance of sealing.
If they are real bad clamp them in a vice and carefully flat file first then polish with the sandpaper.
And as glutamodo suggests, a small* amount Permatex wouldn't hurt to add a little piece of mind. I call such supplemental sealants "Liquid Confidence" 
*a little P-tex really goes a long way, a pea sized brushfull spread around the outside of the seal and a little smudged in the groove itself should suffice.
Nice thing about this form of sealant too is it lubricates the outside of the seal so the assembly process goes smooth and even.
_________________
-Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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Rockbound
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017
Posts: 303
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Sun Apr 05, 2020 9:04 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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so for anyone that is on the fence about installing #7 washer with new the newer kits, here was my experience:
installed as per instructions and diagrams and had leaks on both sides. took apart and found the washers bent to shit. the ridge on the washer is not supposed to be there, they were flat when I installed them:
re installed without the now bent washer.. and no leaks.
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Nevohteeb
Samba Member
Joined: July 10, 2016
Posts: 30
Location: France
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 10:13 am Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| Rockbound wrote: |
so for anyone that is on the fence about installing #7 washer with new the newer kits, here was my experience:
installed as per instructions and diagrams and had leaks on both sides. took apart and found the washers bent to shit. the ridge on the washer is not supposed to be there, they were flat when I installed them:
re installed without the now bent washer.. and no leaks.
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I am about to remount my rear wheel bearings and I'm still not understanding the point about that #7 washer or not. In fact, if I had not seen that post yesterday, I would have done the job according to the original mounting including the #14 oil deflector (my transaxle is of the early type).
I mean : #7 is on the original mounting right? And I can see it mounted on every tutorial I find. As an example, I can see one on the link provided by nlorntson a few posts ago.
I am absolutely not saying that someone is wrong and someone else is right, I just would like to understand. It seems the thickness of the washers provided in kits is involved. Mine is 0.60mm. Isn't it right? What it the thickness of the "old" ones? |
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vdubmyk
Samba Member
Joined: October 24, 2008
Posts: 508
Location: Corona, CA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 07, 2020 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| Rockbound wrote: |
so for anyone that is on the fence about installing #7 washer with new the newer kits, here was my experience:
installed as per instructions and diagrams and had leaks on both sides. took apart and found the washers bent to shit. the ridge on the washer is not supposed to be there, they were flat when I installed them:
re installed without the now bent washer.. and no leaks.
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Which brand of seal kit are you using? I now only use the Wolfsburg West one and have found it to be of the highest quality.
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UrbanOverlanding
Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2020
Posts: 4
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:46 am Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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So mych information in this thread! I have a disc brake kit, and a swing axle. My gasket seems to be leaking, it doesnt seem to be coming from any of the other seal on the actual axle shaft. It was leaking on the bottom, i pulled and replaced everything now it's s leaking from the top! I didn't use any sealant. And there are two gaskets in my kit. Is one supposed to go on the back aide of the backing plageor disc mount?
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:53 am Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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You should be using sealant - Permatex Aviation Form-a-Gasket works great for this application.
Beetles only use one paper gasket. The 2nd paper gasket is for Buses.
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2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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UrbanOverlanding
Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2020
Posts: 4
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:59 am Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
You should be using sealant - Permatex Aviation Form-a-Gasket works great for this application.
Beetles only use one paper gasket. The 2nd paper gasket is for Buses. |
Is this sealant available locally? Ok, could be part of the problem. I've seem people saying the second was for the backing plate. Thanks for the info! |
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sjbartnik
Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011
Posts: 5998
Location: Brooklyn
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 11:12 am Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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I think it's pretty readily available at auto parts stores.
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2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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UrbanOverlanding
Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2020
Posts: 4
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 2:13 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| sjbartnik wrote: |
| I think it's pretty readily available at auto parts stores. |
I am not wrong to assume my issue is the gasket am i? The spindle is clean when I remove my rotor. |
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61SNRF
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2009
Posts: 4657
Location: Whittier 90602
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:29 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| UrbanOverlanding wrote: |
I have a disc brake kit, and a swing axle.
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Is your disc brake kit caliper mount exactly the same thickness as a VW backing plate?
It has to be exactly the same in order for the gasket to compress and seal.
_________________
-Bruce
An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. |
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UrbanOverlanding
Samba Member
Joined: March 02, 2020
Posts: 4
Location: FL
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| Posted: Fri Apr 10, 2020 7:52 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| 61SNRF wrote: |
| UrbanOverlanding wrote: |
I have a disc brake kit, and a swing axle.
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Is your disc brake kit caliper mount exactly the same thickness as a VW backing plate?
It has to be exactly the same in order for the gasket to compress and seal. |
I have no idea, the kit was on when I got the buggy. But I had no leaks previous to the transaxle swap. |
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Rockbound
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017
Posts: 303
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:26 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| Nevohteeb wrote: |
| Rockbound wrote: |
so for anyone that is on the fence about installing #7 washer with new the newer kits, here was my experience:
installed as per instructions and diagrams and had leaks on both sides. took apart and found the washers bent to shit. the ridge on the washer is not supposed to be there, they were flat when I installed them:
re installed without the now bent washer.. and no leaks.
|
I am about to remount my rear wheel bearings and I'm still not understanding the point about that #7 washer or not. In fact, if I had not seen that post yesterday, I would have done the job according to the original mounting including the #14 oil deflector (my transaxle is of the early type).
I mean : #7 is on the original mounting right? And I can see it mounted on every tutorial I find. As an example, I can see one on the link provided by nlorntson a few posts ago.
I am absolutely not saying that someone is wrong and someone else is right, I just would like to understand. It seems the thickness of the washers provided in kits is involved. Mine is 0.60mm. Isn't it right? What it the thickness of the "old" ones? |
im not sure if it was standard as stock or not, when I took it apart my dad was with me and he was an assembly line Forman at a vw plant in the 70s and 80s. he said he never remembers there ever being that #7 washer when he was working on them. so I do not know.. I do know that when they were in there it leaked like a siv.. took them out and put new o rings and no leaks.. |
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Rockbound
Samba Member
Joined: September 06, 2017
Posts: 303
Location: Pennsylvania
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| Posted: Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:30 pm Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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| vdubmyk wrote: |
Which brand of seal kit are you using? I now only use the Wolfsburg West one and have found it to be of the highest quality. |
Which brand of seal kit are you using? I now only use the Wolfsburg West one and have found it to be of the highest quality.[/quote]
honestly im not sure, I think it came with my empi disk brake kit.
if I have issues in the future I will definitely look into that Wolfsburg west kit. |
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bugblanc
Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2017
Posts: 72
Location: Scotland
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| Posted: Tue Jun 23, 2020 11:31 am Post subject: Re: Rear Bearing Assembly? |
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Mine is an early ‘65 to which I am installing an Empi disc brake kit with 4 bolt rotors. The bearing cap is the type with the O ring exposed and no oil Control washer #14, nor did it have the oil thing in the drum but then the drum wasn’t full of oil.
As I assemble it I will seal the back of the calliper bracket with RTV and use a gasket on the front side and the big O ring over the bearing. All of which should be OK. The only thing that troubles me is the thickness of the Empi bracket that is about the same thickness as the original back plate
Initially to seat the bearing into the tube I fitted the cap without the bracket and pulled the bearing up tight. However the gap between the flange on the tube and the cap was slightly smaller than the thickness of the bracket. That is all good and would mean that sealants, gaskets and O rings all clamp Up nice and tight. But that difference between the gap and the bracket would mean that the outer race is not clamped absolutely tight and indeed it wouldn’t have been originally either.
So I know the difference may only be a few thou but it does mean the wheels aren’t held tight from side to side which doesn’t sound good to me.
Thoughts?
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