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Vancouveria
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2020
Posts: 22
Location: Puget Sound
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 Posted: Thu Mar 24, 2022 11:23 pm Post subject: Brake job woes |
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I’m in the process of replacing the rear brakes on my 85 - new drums, shoes, springs, wheel cylinders, and hoses.
I struggled mightily to install the brakes shoes, and in the process the piston came partway out of the wheel cylinder. I was able to push it back in but it did come out far enough that brake fluid dribbled out around the rubber boot.
In the process I also pinched the rubber boot and put a couple pinholes in it. How much of a problem is this - Is this just a dust boot or will it have brake fluid in it during normal operation?
Finally, a couple drops of the brake fluid got on the new brake shoe.
How badly have I messed things up here - can I just clean the brake shoe with brake cleaner and be done, or do I need to replace the rubber boot… or rebuild the whole cylinder?
Both boots have some damage, but the pinholes are visible on the left boot. |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 3:02 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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Kudos for being slow and careful with a brake job.
Everything is fine. It’s just a dust boot , you can dab it with RTV if you have some to seal those pins but I would skip
A few drops of brake fluid, just wipe off with paper towel. I’ve done the Muir brake fluid burn off successfully on a few cars in younger, poorer days, but a small spill won’t affect function or safety.
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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4Gears4Tires
Samba Member
Joined: October 08, 2018
Posts: 3050
Location: MD
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 6:52 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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Switching to discs is not even a safety decision in my opinion, it's a maintenance hassle decision.
Wait for them to go back in stock and them jump on them.
https://www.gowesty.com/product/brakes/25264/rear_disc_kit-vanagon?v=
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'87 Syncro
Ferric Oxyhydroxide Superleggera Edition |
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hardway
Samba Member
Joined: January 03, 2012
Posts: 416
Location: Fidalgo Island
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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| When you contaminate a brake friction lining you need to take that seriously. Using a solvent to clean the lining is the worst thing you can do. The solvent will spread the contaminant and move it into the lining. I use sandpaper to sand off the contaminated portion of the lining. |
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SCM
Samba Member
Joined: January 26, 2011
Posts: 3118
Location: Bozeman MT
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:48 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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Interesting. I didn't see anything on their website about how to find replacements for the rotors once they wear out. Do you need to go back to GoWesty and hope they still have them or can you find them at an FLAPS?
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'91 Westfalia GL Automatic (GTA "Turbo" Rebuild w/Peloquin) and 2.3L GoWesty Engine |
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Vancouveria
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2020
Posts: 22
Location: Puget Sound
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:36 pm Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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Thanks for the recommendations - I cleaned up the small amount of brake fluid on the shoe with red BraKleen and the RTV on the boot is curing now.
| Abscate wrote: |
| Kudos for being slow and careful with a brake job. |
That’s a kind way of saying “I can’t believe I’ve been working on these brakes for two weeks.” I’ve been saying it differently in my head. (My Bentley seems to be missing the section on how to curse properly in German, but I’m figuring it out.)
Once the RTV sets up I’ll complete the initial adjustment as described in the Bentley, and then bleed the system.
With the hub still in place, “measurement A” from the Bentley is hard to measure. I’m using a piece of card stock with a notch to clear the hub. I folded it to match the inside diameter of the drum, and am hoping I can get the initial measurements close enough this way.
The previous brake shoes look like they still had a lot of life, but the one of the drums is so worn that I can feel longitudinal grooves with my finger and one of the cylinder boots was completely torn.
It’s been a long process but I’m learning a ton. There’s no stopping me now! |
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ALIKA T3
Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2009
Posts: 6360
Location: Honolulu,Hawaii and France
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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| djkeev wrote: |
Get the red can, the eco friendly green can stuff is crap!
As are many other brands...... IMHO
DO NOT BREATHE THE VAPORS!
Keep off of your skin.
It is ugly stuff but does the job.
Dave |
The green stuff being crap is state dependent.
I tried the one in CA, it is indeed junk.
The ones I get in HI works wonders, I never get the red one, gross.
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Silicone Steering Boots and 930 Cv boots for sale in the classifieds.
Syncro transmission upgrade parts in the Classifieds.
Subaru EJ22+UN1 5 speed transmission
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=416343
Syncro http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4...num+gadget |
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dhaavers
Samba Member
Joined: March 19, 2010
Posts: 7757
Location: NE MN (tinyurl.com/dhaaverslocation)
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| Posted: Fri Mar 25, 2022 10:07 pm Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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Whoa...CLASSIC case of German over-thinking, ...-engineering, ...-domineering, ...(whatever)... 
1) Loosen adjuster enough to allow drum to clear shoes;
2) Install drum & tighten to spec...(sorry, don't have it here in front of me);
3) Tighten adjuster until shoes are heard/felt to <slightly> drag on rotating drum;
4) Loosen adjuster about 1 or 2 (maybe 3) clicks;
5) Verify: little-to-no drag on drums;
6) <Slightly> readjust if necessary (see steps #4 & 5)
7) Install wheel & (mounted) tire to spec [132 ft/lbs, IIRC];
8 ) Drive & <carefully> verify correct brake operation;
9) Beer.
- Dave
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS> |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:34 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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4a pump brakes several times
4b go back to 3 and repeat adjustment
Skip the shiny disc brake conversions and leave those for the non-mechanics. Drums will lock the rear wheels and give you a better parking brake , too. If opening brakes up once every 5 years is too much hassle, it’s not the car to own
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campism
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2007
Posts: 4492
Location: Richmond VA
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 3:50 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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| Vancouveria wrote: |
| There’s no stopping me now! |
Not the phrase to use when discussing your brake work.
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'87 Westy in Wolfram Grey Metallic |
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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kamzcab86
Samba Moderator
Joined: July 26, 2008
Posts: 7923
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 9:54 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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| Abscate wrote: |
| Skip the shiny disc brake conversions and leave those for the non-mechanics. Drums will lock the rear wheels and give you a better parking brake , too. If opening brakes up once every 5 years is too much hassle, it’s not the car to own |
BS... er, sorry, respectfully disagree.
Furthermore, my dad, a lifelong mechanic, chucked the drum brakes as the first major modification on his '89. One year later, I finally did the conversion to my '90... single best modification ever done to my heavy Westy, hands-down. The discs, including parking brake, are outperforming the drums by a very wide margin... wouldn't go back to drums on my van if you paid me.
Nevermind you're a Eurovan owner, a model that VW themselves began installing rear discs onto by mid-1996.
Anyone wishing to keep drum brakes on their vans, fine and dandy. But denigrating those who have successfully switched to discs is totally uncalled for.
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~Kamz 
1986 Cabriolet: www.Cabby-Info.com
 1990 Vanagon Westfalia: Old Blue's Blog
2016 Golf GTI S
"Real knowledge is to know the extent of one's ignorance." - 孔子 |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat Mar 26, 2022 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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Right, and T4 rear disks are part of ESP, pressure balancing , ABS, and ME7
If your discs have you more stopping power than drums , you drums weren’t in right. Non ABs braking is limited by tire contact anyway.
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djkeev
Samba Moderator
Joined: September 30, 2007
Posts: 32625
Location: Reading Pennsylvania
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Vancouveria
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2020
Posts: 22
Location: Puget Sound
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| Posted: Fri May 06, 2022 10:14 pm Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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Thanks again for all the help in this thread! I wrapped up work on the brakes a couple weeks ago (my mechanic is very slow but at least the rates are cheap!) and moved on to other projects like changing the transmission oil.
However, I’m noticing a pulsing when I step on the brake. I’ve got the van back on jack stands tonight, and one of the drums is noticeably dragging once per rotation. For any bike mechanics in the crowd, it feels the same as a bike wheel that’s out of true.
I assume that the brand new brake drum must be out of round or warped. Is this a job for a machine shop, or should I be contacting the parts vendor? If this is a machine shop job, what should I be asking for?
Is it likely that I somehow damaged the brake drum? I didn’t drop it or subject it to heat, so is there anything else I might have done to cause this? Or did I get a bad part? |
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VWFIXER
Banned
Joined: January 21, 2011
Posts: 411
Location: Hawaii- Rarotonga
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2022 12:07 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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I’ve only used 10% sudsy ammonia to clean brake parts in 40 years. Super glue for the boots. Make sure to put a dab of anti-seize on the rubbing surfaces.
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Over a million air cooled miles driven and 15,000+ cars serviced. |
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skills@eurocarsplus
Samba Peckerhead
Joined: January 01, 2007
Posts: 16879
Location: sticksville, ct.
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2022 1:16 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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| Vancouveria wrote: |
| one of the drums is noticeably dragging once per rotation. |
out of curiosity, which side?
| Vancouveria wrote: |
Is it likely that I somehow damaged the brake drum? I didn’t drop it or subject it to heat, so is there anything else I might have done to cause this? Or did I get a bad part? |
well, could be both. if one side is dragging and you overheated it, it could have warped or it could just be a bad part
reason i ask what side is dragging is i was having a problem which i now think is solved and the brakes are great
in terms of rear disc brakes... especially "kits" i needed a part for a van that a vendor sold as a "kit" and they WOULD NOT sell any replacement parts to the "kit" as a service item so you had to buy the whole kit.
in my case it was a cable and after much research i figured out what they used and bought a new one for 15 bux instead of almost 1k for a new "kit"
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| gprudenciop wrote: |
my reason for switching to subaru is my german car was turning chinese so i said fuck it and went japanese....... |
| Jake Raby wrote: |
| Thanks for the correction. I used to be a nice guy, then I ruined it by exposing myself to the public. |
| Brian wrote: |
| Also the fact that people are agreeing with Skills, it's a turn of events for samba history |
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Abscate
Samba Member
Joined: October 05, 2014
Posts: 22670
Location: NYC/Upstate/ROW
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2022 3:32 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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| Quote: |
| in terms of rear disc brakes... especially "kits" i needed a part for a van that a vendor sold as a "kit" and they WOULD NOT sell any replacement parts to the "kit" as a service item so you had to buy the whole kit. |
WTF?
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Vancouveria
Samba Member
Joined: September 28, 2020
Posts: 22
Location: Puget Sound
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| Posted: Sat May 07, 2022 7:46 am Post subject: Re: Brake job woes |
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| skills@eurocarsplus wrote: |
| Vancouveria wrote: |
| one of the drums is noticeably dragging once per rotation. |
out of curiosity, which side?
| Vancouveria wrote: |
Is it likely that I somehow damaged the brake drum? I didn’t drop it or subject it to heat, so is there anything else I might have done to cause this? Or did I get a bad part? |
well, could be both. if one side is dragging and you overheated it, it could have warped or it could just be a bad part
reason i ask what side is dragging is i was having a problem which i now think is solved and the brakes are great
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The driver’s side was dragging/rubbing. When I had issues earlier in the thread with the damaged rubber boot it was on the passenger’s side.
To add some more context: I’ve only driven about 20 miles of in-town driving since working on the brakes. While driving I did check the brake drum temperature frequently - it was slightly warm to the touch but not blistering hot.
I was concerned I might not have gotten the adjusters right, so I was in the process of taking the drums off last night to verify my work. My work matches the photos from https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=8367832#8367832 so at least I think I got all the pieces in the right places.
In the process I tightened down the adjusters by 5 clicks, and that’s when I noticed that the drum was dragging once per rotation instead of having an even amount of force the whole ‘way round.
One last detail - when I swapped drums from side to side as a test, the same drum drags in the same way on the passenger side.
So what are my next steps here? Is this a job for a machine shop? What should I ask them for? |
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