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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2002 Posts: 154 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Fri Jun 03, 2005 9:45 pm Post subject: charging issue |
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so my van's charging system does not seem to be working. the battery does not charge when the engine is running, but does not wear down while driving with my lights on. so for a little while i've been charging the battery on a weekly basis because it discharges the battery from starting only. any ideas??
...in case it matters the van is an 82 with a inline 1.8 from a jetta |
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walrus Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: ashland ky
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 12:58 am Post subject: |
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uh, 1of 4 things; batt, alternator, wires, or a drain. Check batt volt not running. Should be around 12 but may be lower in your case. Take note of it. Now check voltage with engine running. It should go up to about 14. If does not change at all then either alternator or it's wire is bad. If that is good then your alternator is good. You can check for a drain with ampmeter if it discharges after sitting a while. The batt may also be bad and not hold a charge.
Being that your jetta engine is probaly fuel injected and you had the lights on and it didn't die I would say alternator is working. Otherwise it would die. It may last quite a while if you have dual batteries though. |
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Captain Pike Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003 Posts: 3341 Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 5:53 am Post subject: |
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Start it, pull the negative wire off the battery. If it stalls-bad alt.With the inline conversion many still have the 45 amp alt in it. Too weak to recharge a hurtin' battery. Also check the belt tension to the alt. If you can post a photo of your belt configuration so I can see it to look for problems. _________________ LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current....................... |
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Randy in Maine Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003 Posts: 34890 Location: The Beach
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 6:33 am Post subject: |
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DON'T PULL THE WIRE OFF THE BATTERY while it is running.
The alternator will indeed fry in a diode of a second.
That is a old wive's tale Bill. You know better than that. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2002 Posts: 154 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:00 am Post subject: |
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forgot to mention. i have pulled the alternator and had it checked and have also had the battery checked and both are good. i can charge the battery with the charger and it takes a good charge. i can also run the vehicle with lights on and have full strength that does not diminish. but if i give the battery a quick jump (enough for 1 start)i can run the bus all day and the battery recieves no charge. |
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Captain Pike Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003 Posts: 3341 Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 8:39 am Post subject: |
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I totally disagree. Pulling the positive will fry the alt, the negative has no effect, it mearly closes the circut. It is ground as is the alt. Trust me I've done it MANY times and never a fry. For a field test with no diagnostic tools that is the only way. _________________ LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current....................... |
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Captain Pike Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003 Posts: 3341 Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:00 am Post subject: |
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More on this. With the conversion set up I've seen many different set ups. Sometimes the set up doesn't spin the alt fast enough to put out the amps necessary to charge the batt. Add an extra ground from the alt to the block,just to be sure.Is your alt a plug in or a direct wire?Seems like a bad wire on the charge circut.Conversions present many reconfiguration problems creating a whole new set of troubles. _________________ LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current....................... |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22711 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:01 am Post subject: |
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Bill W wrote: |
I totally disagree. Pulling the positive will fry the alt, the negative has no effect, it mearly closes the circut. It is ground as is the alt. Trust me I've done it MANY times and never a fry. For a field test with no diagnostic tools that is the only way. |
Your owner's manual and all repair manuals will tell you to NEVER RUN THE CAR WITH THE BATTERY DISCONNECTED. It doesn't matter WHICH cable you disconnect- positive or negative- you're breaking the flow of current. Alternators are designed to work WITH a known good battery completing the circuit. PERIOD. DON'T DO IT.
You shouldn't be conducting a field test without diagnostic tools, anyway.
My best sceintific wild ass guess on this problem would be to suspect the grounding strap between engine/ trans and the body. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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Captain Pike Samba Member
Joined: December 30, 2003 Posts: 3341 Location: Talos IV, Piedmont Arizona
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:07 am Post subject: |
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I know but 1.8 inline dosn't use the brain the wassers do, nothing to kill. Ever have a completly dead battery? Did it kill the alt? same thing. _________________ LEARN TO SELF RESCUE
59 Panel bus, 1966 Single cab. 73' 181. 73 Westy. 91' H6 Vanagon 3.3L.
.....................All Current....................... |
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Tram Samba Socialist
Joined: May 02, 2003 Posts: 22711 Location: Still Feelin' the Bern- Once you've felt it you can't un- feel it.
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Bill W wrote: |
I know but 1.8 inline dosn't use the brain the wassers do, nothing to kill. Ever have a completly dead battery? Did it kill the alt? same thing. |
I'm just pointing out what the engineers and service experts put into print. I always say, when in doubt, consult the experts.
If you went to the dealer with a new car under warranty with a fried alternator, and there was ANY EVIDENCE that it had been run with the battery disconnected...guess what? YOU are buying an alternator!
72- 74 Busses didn't have any "brains" at all, and they STILL told you not to run the alternator with the battery disconnected. That went for all alternators. _________________ Немає виправдання для війни! Я з Україною.
Bryan67 wrote: |
Just my hands. And a little lube. No tools. |
To best contact me, please use the EMAIL function in my profile |
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walrus Samba Member
Joined: June 02, 2005 Posts: 507 Location: ashland ky
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:42 am Post subject: |
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I concur that it shouldn't be run with battery disconnected. I have read that in many different service manuals. If both the alt and batt are definetely good and belt is not slipping then the problem would have to be in the wiring. Either the positive wire back to the battery or the engine ground. Again, this can be pinpointed with a multimeter. |
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[email protected] Samba Member
Joined: November 09, 2002 Posts: 154 Location: Portland OR
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 11:19 am Post subject: |
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the van has run for 2 yesrs with no problems so i know its a question of something not working or coming disconnected. it has worked properly until recently |
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DanJReed Samba Member
Joined: July 30, 2004 Posts: 548 Location: Riverton NJ
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Posted: Sat Jun 04, 2005 9:28 pm Post subject: |
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FWIW the battery acts like a sponge absorbing power spikes. Pulling off the battery cables when the van is running is a very nice way to blow out an ECM. Been there, done that, got the hat and t-shirt. Used to do that as a demo at school (work). Last car we fryed was a 97 Acura 2.2 CL. And I pulled off the NEG. cable.
Its much easier and safer to take a voltmeter and have the car running, and then load up the electrical system (headlights, wipers, fan, etc..) and see how far it drops at 2000 RPM. Better yet, use an inductive amp probe around the B+ wire of the alternator to see how many amps its putting out.
_________________ -Dan
(87 Westy Vanagon, 98 Jetta GLS 2.0, 95 Golf Sport) |
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