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OPD compliant propane tanks
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 2:31 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Like I mentioned, the original tanks don't have this magical valve, are not required, so it's nothing even to be concerned about, unless you have a new thank with a stuck valve.

I don't know about you, but I only have 3 outlet's on my 3 Westfalia's propane tanks--and there's only one place for a pressure overload to escape---
On the side of the shut off / service valve.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 25, 2010 11:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Terry Kay wrote:
I zigged instead of zagged on that one--and corrected that thought---

They sure do --hanging right on the side of the shut off valve.

That is the over pressure Relief Valve. NOT an over fill device.

I think the tank schematics omit the internal over fill device that seems to be installed in all the tanks. I don't think Manchester would put them in unless they were required to.

Yes the oldest tanks do not have an explicit over fill device. Later they added the troublesome external valve. Now they are internal.

Point is, old tanks don't have an overfill device and new ones do.
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 6:03 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I zigged instead of zagged on that one--and corrected that thought---

They sure do --hanging right on the side of the shut off valve.
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crazyvwvanman
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:43 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I bought new Manchester Westy tanks as long ago as 12 years and they had the OPD valve floats and fully welded ID plates. All of the Westy tanks have pressure relief valves, Terry, why would you think otherwise? SOP for all propane tanks I would think.

Mark


dbeierl wrote:

I'm pretty sure that the newer Manchester tanks have the tag welded all around. It was obviously an unsuitable practice to tack-weld it in the very worst place for collecting corrosives.

Yours,
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Terry Kay
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And this all depends on where the vehicle resides.
If your in the salt belt, dive the Van in the winter--yea I can see it rotting away under the certification plaque.

But other than that there is nothing wrong with tossing out the problimatic, broken, froze, or leaking , Autostop fill valve & it's attached bleeder, and replacing them with older model type Westfalia manual fill & bleeder valves.

The older tanks didn't have any of the later model, currently mandated OPD devices on them.

If it isn't required, I wouldn't worry about it.
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Last edited by Terry Kay on Sat Apr 24, 2010 5:58 pm; edited 1 time in total
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dbeierl
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:46 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

wiartonallan wrote:
I have had TWO Manchester tanks fail, leaking under the tag location. The tag tends to collect road stuff including salt.

I'm pretty sure that the newer Manchester tanks have the tag welded all around. It was obviously an unsuitable practice to tack-weld it in the very worst place for collecting corrosives.

Yours,
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wiartonallan
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 3:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Dudes, exactly why I installed an Espar diesel heater and left the fine looking Propex unit that I had purchased on the shelf. I have had TWO Manchester tanks fail, leaking under the tag location. The tag tends to collect road stuff including salt. I have had issues getting propane suppliers in my area (Southwestern Ontario) to fill my tank. I eventually got a letter from the standards administrator (TSSA) which confirmed the the tank could be refilled without any inspection certification. I have one good tank left. After it dies I intend to convert the stove to a diet of small disposable bottles. The Dometic got replaced by a 12V compressor (dependable) unit years ago.

With respect to the autofill stop I can see no issue with replacing it with the older style fill valve and "spitter" type overfill indicator. That (I think) is how the same tank was originally configured.
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 24, 2010 4:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I think you will find that the later replacement tanks have a float type overfill valve. I have purchased several new replacement tanks and they definitely have moving parts inside the tank. I did not get mine through GW.

Here is what Manchester Tank says for their new vehicle mount ASME tank valves. Notice the 80% Stop-Fill Valve

Typical valve layout for ASME tanks:

* Relief Valve UL listed 312 PSI internal spring operation.
* Vapor Service Valve internal excess flow.
* Outage Valve (Fixed Liquid Level Gauge) installed to insure proper filling.
* 80% Stop-Fill Valve 1 3/4" ACME connection.


Mark



r39o wrote:
Riddle me this:

What's the difference between the new tank with integrated Relief Valve and an old tank with an externally mounted Relief Valve?

Note the Relief Valve is spring loaded at 312 psi for both.

Note also that both have NO overfill device other than Outage Valve.

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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 23, 2010 7:59 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Riddle me this:

What's the difference between the new tank with integrated Relief Valve and an old tank with an externally mounted Relief Valve?

Note the Relief Valve is spring loaded at 312 psi for both.

Note also that both have NO overfill device other than Outage Valve.

New tank as supplied by GoWesty:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Old tank requiring an externally mounted Relief Valve
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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dbeierl
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 6:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Quote:
against all laws, regulations, the product manufacturers, the american gas assoc.,the canadian gas assoc., and people in the industry


@bandit, are ASME tanks legally required to have OPDs, and if so can you point me to the relevant laws/codes? Also if so, what are the grandfathering provisions if any? Thanks.

Yours,
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bandit1
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 5:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I guess then you don't make your kids wear seat belts in the car either cause that was safe 40 years ago. We might as well bring asbestos back, its harmless.
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r39o
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 3:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

The older tanks did NOT have an overfill device. The same tank, LATER, had the device added.

I have a hard time believing back dating is dangerous.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 12:20 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I am not confusing the two. And yes you are correct on the 20%vapor spaceand the pressure that would increase.That is why there is a pressure relief.The relief though will not do anything for an overfilled tank that doesn't experience a rise in ambient temperature. The fact that as small as these tanks are, overfilling them only amounts to about 4/10ths of a gallon or 5 or 6 seconds of reaction time on a manually filled tank as you call it. I cannot teach 30yrs here, but I can tell you from experience that it is against all laws, regulations, the product manufacturers, the american gas assoc.,the canadian gas assoc., and people in the industry, that you do not remove an overfill device from a tank equipped with one and change the valving on a tank. The danger is there which is why the systems were invented.
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dbeierl
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

@bandit I think you're conflating DOT and ASME tanks. The ASME tanks on Vanagons all have a port at the 80% WC point which can accept either the ordinary manual vent valve where you stop filling when liquid starts coming out, or the Autostop valve which stops filling for you when liquid starts coming out.

If you were to fill a tank to the point that liquid was entering the regulator I think you'd have more serious problems than that if the tank ever got hot. The 20% headspace is there for a reason...

Yours,
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

It is not the pressure relief that is in question, It is the overfill device. All tanks have a pressure relief. The danger is that because these tanks are small you can overfill them very easily and quickly. Thus now putting liquid propane instead of vapor to the supply system. When the regulator then fails (because it is designed for vapor not liquid) you have just turned your van into a bomb. It is the very reason that the DOT tanks now require an overfill protection valve on them today. Basically you are correct,most tanks manufactured prior to 1970 did not have any safety devices for overfilling. Due to the amount of tanks in circulation and the improper training of personel filling tanks, the gas association implimented the rules governing propane tanks requiring overfill devices. IT IS AGAINST THE LAW TO REMOVE OR TAMPER WITH AN OVERFILL DEVICE. These were implemented for everyones safety. I have been involved in propane for 30years and the changes in laws and rules were put there to save lives. Again if you do this modification and something does happen, you and the company selling the parts will be liable so buy some good insurance
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 11:02 am    Post subject: Re: Propane Tanks Reply with quote

bandit1 wrote:
There seems to be some controversy about LP tanks on the Vanagon/Westfalia. These tanks are ASME certified and do not require recertification.They should however be inspected visually for any dents, heavy rust, or cracks. This is for your safety.

Well said; I should have made these points myself.
Quote:
If you have an Auto Stop valve and it has failed, here are your options... If the valve is Aluminum it cannot be rebuilt, if it is brass it can be. Or replace the tank.

I don't understand this. Normal procedure in this case is to install a manual fill valve, and a manual vent valve in the hole at the 80% fill level. This replaces the tube installed in the same hole which formerly went to the vent valve incorporated into the Autostop valve. Note that that valve is also a manual valve -- the only difference is that it is routed through the Autostop mechanism so that when liquid starts coming out the vent it acts to close the main valve against supply pressure. If you don't manually open the vent valve on side of the Autostop valve, it will never trip.

Yours,
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r39o
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:53 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Bandit,

Respectfully, the above is advise seems prudent, but and it is a big one, earlier tanks did not have the troublesome over fill device. They only had the little valve you open. I do not recall seeing any sort of over pressure device or bursting plate on them.

The current Manchester tank you can buy has a 312 psi over pressure device and not the troublesome auto stop fill device.

I am confused. I am so because when I had my tank repaired the first time, a 312 psi over pressure device was added and the auto stop left in place. My auto stop has failed now (and I am not sure what kind it is.)

What is so darn dangerous if I have an over pressure device and the little valve on my otherwise sound tank?
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:31 am    Post subject: Propane Tanks Reply with quote

There seems to be some controversy about LP tanks on the Vanagon/Westfalia. These tanks are ASME certified and do not require recertification.They should however be inspected visually for any dents, heavy rust, or cracks. This is for your safety. The only tanks needing recertification and valve replacing are DOT certified tanks such as a 20# barbque tank. These tanks range in size from 5# to 40#. DOT taks larger than that only need recertifying , no valve upgrades. The second issue is the Auto stop Valve replacement kit sold on this site. All ASME tanks are equipped with a overfill device. The valve being sold is only one half of a float syle overfill used on larger tanks. DO NOT INSTALL THIS. By doing so you are removing the overfill device which is illegal. Manchester Tank builds these tanks and will tell you there is no modification you can do to this tank. The newer tanks use a float style protection device, but it cannot be retrofitted to this tank because the port in the tank is in a different location. If you have an Auto Stop valve and it has failed, here are your options... If the valve is Aluminum it cannot be rebuilt, if it is brass it can be. Or replace the tank. Respectfully,
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r39o
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 8:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is an old thread. I had my tank inspected at a large tank company. The inspector said the tanks, although ASME and very sturdy, needed to be inspected after a dozen years. Then evey 5 years there after. Or soimething like that. I have a new inspection tag on mine now. Better safe than sorrry!

Now I am in the process of putting a second tank on the other side. I will clean it, derust it and have them inpect it just like the other. It is cheap INSURANCE!!!!!

Use the SEARCH function, as directed in my signature lines and you will find LOTS of posts about the propane tank. Also look in the Best Threads sticky at the top of this forum for a list of the better threads about the propane tank.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 24, 2009 6:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

r39o wrote:
Don't tanks need to be recertified every now and then? Excuse my ignorance, but I am new Westy owner. Mine looks to be the OG tank and is now a tad over 20 years old. My van is being painted and I am thinking of taking it off to clean it up. Paint it silver again and so on. I don't think you can just keep filling them decade after decade and not inspect them. It is a pressure vessel. I know almost nothing about then so I may just spewing so excuse me as I am a nub. Don't they need to be checked?
Our Westy tanks are built to ASME (American Society of Mechanical Engineers) standards. The wall thickness is something like a quarter of an inch. They are much much sturdier than the DOT-certified BBQ tanks, and do not have a requirement for periodic recertification.
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