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Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question
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Silverghost500
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:06 pm    Post subject: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

Those of you who have performed, or frequently perform engine conversions, did you replace items such as crank, cam, oil pressure & temperature sensors, and items like fuel injectors? Or did you leave them in place as you received the engine?
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1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
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skills@eurocarsplus
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 12:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

i don't do used engines (well, did on other cars) and yes, i replaced everything i could.

age, heat etc take their toll on electronics. i typically replace all hard to access stuff. coil/coil packs not usually if they check out. but cam, crank, knock sensor ECT, o2's are on the top of the list. injectors go out to be serviced.

if you're going to replace it with chinka china trash, leave the OEM stuff. at this stage in the game i'm 99.9% on dealer sourced electronics these days

here is a classic example why i do it


Link


if you don't care to watch, junk ass bosch part made wrong.... TWICE!
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GoEverywhere
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

Every time I swap a motor its a for a rebuilt one. If I'm going to spend all the time to pull it out and put something else in, I'm setting it up for a long life. I don't want to install a new engine just for it to need crank seals or something 5k miles down the road.

I also almost always UPGRADE it, the engine in my '80 aircooled right now has a stroker crank, big bore cylinders, big valve heads, bigger cam, and megasquirt crank fired ignition and EFI.
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djkeev
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 2:41 pm    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

I don't do swaps but whenever an engine of unknown age/service is out of a vehicle, it is a fools errand to not replace wear and decay items.
But as mentioned, be aware that a LOT of new parts are absolute crap!
Shop wisely but not penny pinching.

I would never install a used motor without some testing and at least a top end rebuild.

Dave
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Pchill2
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 3:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

If you swap everything out with cheap rock auto stuff and end up with an anomalous issue you could end up with a lot of things to troubleshoot.

Front main and rear main seals 100% yes replace those.

Timing chain/belt and adjuster yes

Oil and water pump potentially depending on ease of service in vehicle or if it’s driven by timing chain/belt

TPS and idle air control yes.

O2 replace for sure

Temperature sensors no. Thermistors will usually last the life of the engine

Crank/cam position sensors no. Hall effects will usually last the life of the engine. I’ll usually pull them out and clean the tips and inspect for metal shavings.

Spark plugs yes but usually won’t waste my time on coil packs unless I get an ignition issue on start up.

Injectors no but I always check spray pattern before first startup. Usually it’s pretty clear if one is clogged or sticking and the can be cleaned most of the time. Verifying your injectors work properly can save you a ton of frustration if you have an issue on startup.
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Silverghost500
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PostPosted: Tue Jul 19, 2022 4:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

I agree. Change items that will be hard to reach post conversion, maintenance items, or parts to extend the engine's lifecycle.

Also agree about replacement parts being hit or miss. Especially Bosch.

The reason I asked the question is that it seems there are a number of drivability issues with some conversions shortly after or a few years after, and it seems like it's with items that probably should have been replaced at the time of the conversion.

Of course a lot of the issues could boil down to the quality and care of the conversion itself. If an installer just grabbed a junkyard motor and slapped it it, that will eventually catch up with whoever owns the converted vehicle down the road.
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1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
Honda K24A converversion in-progress
3-Speed Automatic

Von Westy YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbhyZYxJEQrUuLnMbLleeIA
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Silverghost500
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:16 am    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

@GoEverywhere, how is the Megasquirt working out for your van?

That's another thing I'm seeing. Older wiring, OEM ECUs etc. causing fits or wearing out.

I'm wondering if the future of conversions is heading to new aftermarket ECU and wiring options?
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1986 Volkswagen Vanagon Westfalia "Von Westy"
Honda K24A converversion in-progress
3-Speed Automatic

Von Westy YouTube Channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbhyZYxJEQrUuLnMbLleeIA
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jlrftype7
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:33 am    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

Silverghost500 wrote:
@GoEverywhere, how is the Megasquirt working out for your van?

That's another thing I'm seeing. Older wiring, OEM ECUs etc. causing fits or wearing out.

I'm wondering if the future of conversions is heading to new aftermarket ECU and wiring options?
I think it will have to be if there is no easy or affordable to get an ECU back into reliable working for a daily driver. Or associated critical parts that tie into a system and aren't easy to substitute.
This was something we in the Industry were all looking at years ago when Engine Management became the norm versus rebuilding an old school vehicle that had simpler electrical systems and few relays. You couldn't stop the progression of more and more electronics, but you could see how it was going to complicate things as the vehicles got older to the point of possible restoration time years later.
Supply chain issues now start much sooner than before, and that was happening even before Covid issues- one supplier goes out of business due to a variety of reasons and a chain of events happens to a vehicle's production after that.
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GoEverywhere
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 6:50 am    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

Silverghost500 wrote:
@GoEverywhere, how is the Megasquirt working out for your van?

That's another thing I'm seeing. Older wiring, OEM ECUs etc. causing fits or wearing out.

I'm wondering if the future of conversions is heading to new aftermarket ECU and wiring options?


Absolutely fantastic. Its by far the best mod I've done to any classic vehicle ever. My van was the first Megasquirt install I'd done, since then I've done it on 3 other classic cars and a motor scooter.

My engine has a decent sized camshaft in it, which meant the stock EFI wouldn't work with it. It ran ok on carbs when I first put it in but it idled poorly. Now it idles smooth as silk, it starts easily, tuning it is as easy as pulling out my phone or laptop, it self tunes for atmospheric conditions, I can run a full gauge cluster on my phone mounted underneath my mirror which gives me a TON of info about what the motor is doing and to top it all off my gas milage went WAY up because I can tune it to have a 'lean burn' map for cruising. My last long trip I averaged 27MPG!
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space
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 20, 2022 7:14 am    Post subject: Re: Used Engine Electronics For Conversions Question Reply with quote

Silverghost500 wrote:
Those of you who have performed, or frequently perform engine conversions, did you replace items such as crank, cam, oil pressure & temperature sensors, and items like fuel injectors? Or did you leave them in place as you received the engine?


My swap kept the sensors
replaced the timing belt
kept the water pump (i dont trust aftermarket pumps)
2005 2.5 JDM
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