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WaterboysSuper71
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2005
Posts: 97
Location: Chandler, Arizona
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 Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 10:39 am Post subject: Beetles and Fires? |
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How susceptible is a Beetle to catching on fire. Every once in awhile I run across a story in the forum that ones Beetle caught fire. Is this a common problem? What can be done to help prevent a fire from occuring  |
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Patty B.
Samba Member
Joined: July 14, 2005
Posts: 2181
Location: Brampton, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: some causes of fires |
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Most captions for those pictures or stories go like this 'See what happens when you don't move the fuel filter away from the engine!'. Move it away from the usual spot between the distributor and the coil and clamp it in where you do put it. Check that the metal tube the fuel line enters the carb is tight -some tend to loosen with age. Check the fuel pump to be sure no bolts have loosened--on my '69 the four little screws on the very top came loose enough to rattle, I smelled the fuel before a fire luckily. And I guess just plain old time and heat on old rubber fuel lines can cause a crack and leak. I believe most people carry fire extinguishers with them just in case.
Of course I'm one to talk, I have yet to move the filter myself! What the heck, my battery won't hold a charge this year so I haven't gone anywhere boo hoo. |
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Delaware Dave
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2003
Posts: 359
Location: Delaware, USA
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 11:52 am Post subject: |
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It happens all too often. Just recently two members have lost their bugs due to fire.
The best advice is this. Follow the guidelines set up by the more experienced members for the forums. In a nutshell:
1.If your fuel filter is located in the engine compartment, relocate it to the fuel line under the tank.
2.Replace all your rubber fuel lines on a schedule, say, every other year, or more often if they look/feel hard, cracked etc... (Don't forget the line from the pan to the engine firewall, just at the rear axle)
3.When replacing fuel lines, use the good stuff. The Euro line is fabric coated on the outside, usually gray in color. 5mm internal diameter for carb setup, 7mm for fuelies.
4.Use good hose clamps at all connection points. I use clamps from the local Mercedes Benz place, and they work perfect. Just ask for fuel line clamps. They will be kind of gold in color, and have a clamping band all the way around them. They close with a phillips head screwdriver. They will have an actual MB part number. Don't let then give you a generic hose clamp. (Generic will work okay, but it defeats the purpose of going to MB in the first place).
5.Check the rubber grommet that protects the metal fuel line as it comes through the engine firewall from rear axle area. Replace it if it's worn or old and cracked. That metal line can wear through at this point and cause a leak.
6.No matter what, carry a fire extinguisher!
_________________
\X/ Delaware Dave
'71 Standard Beetle Project
'69 Type 3 fastback (sold), '65 Standard Beetle (sold),
'05 Passat 1.8 Turbo, '97 Jetta Tdi (sold) |
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Miguel Arroyo
Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2004
Posts: 3122
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Delaware Dave wrote: |
It happens all too often. Just recently two members have lost their bugs due to fire.
The best advice is this. Follow the guidelines set up by the more experienced members for the forums. In a nutshell:
1.If your fuel filter is located in the engine compartment, relocate it to the fuel line under the tank.
2.Replace all your rubber fuel lines on a schedule, say, every other year, or more often if they look/feel hard, cracked etc... (Don't forget the line from the pan to the engine firewall, just at the rear axle)
3.When replacing fuel lines, use the good stuff. The Euro line is fabric coated on the outside, usually gray in color. 5mm internal diameter for carb setup, 7mm for fuelies.
4.Use good hose clamps at all connection points. I use clamps from the local Mercedes Benz place, and they work perfect. Just ask for fuel line clamps. They will be kind of gold in color, and have a clamping band all the way around them. They close with a phillips head screwdriver. They will have an actual MB part number. Don't let then give you a generic hose clamp. (Generic will work okay, but it defeats the purpose of going to MB in the first place).
5.Check the rubber grommet that protects the metal fuel line as it comes through the engine firewall from rear axle area. Replace it if it's worn or old and cracked. That metal line can wear through at this point and cause a leak.
6.No matter what, carry a fire extinguisher! |
Excellent well written advice. I would only add to periodically check the condition of the fuel lines (say monthly, or before/after a long trip). Good luck. |
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Max Welton
Samba Member
Joined: May 19, 2003
Posts: 10697
Location: Black Forest, CO
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Glenn 
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 5:53 pm Post subject: |
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Normal maint, change the 30+ year old fuel hoses and carry a fire exstingushier.
I had a small filre, but it was due to a backfire igniting the air cleaner.
464,000 miles and never a fuel related fire.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
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bandi
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2005
Posts: 1064
Location: Campbellford, Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Aug 29, 2005 8:20 pm Post subject: |
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| I discovered a fuel leak around the accelerator pump diaphragm on my '66 1300, it looked minor, but after driving for a few minutes, the fuel was literally pouring out. Glad I noticed it! |
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WaterboysSuper71
Samba Member
Joined: August 16, 2005
Posts: 97
Location: Chandler, Arizona
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| Posted: Wed Aug 31, 2005 6:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks guys for all your advice and tips on how to keep my family and my bug safe. I will follow all advise. Seems like the first thing I need to do is get rid of that damn fuel filter! |
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Delaware Dave
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2003
Posts: 359
Location: Delaware, USA
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| Posted: Thu Sep 01, 2005 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| WaterboysSuper71 wrote: |
| Thanks guys for all your advice and tips on how to keep my family and my bug safe. I will follow all advise. Seems like the first thing I need to do is get rid of that damn fuel filter! |
I do hope you mean "relocate" 
_________________
\X/ Delaware Dave
'71 Standard Beetle Project
'69 Type 3 fastback (sold), '65 Standard Beetle (sold),
'05 Passat 1.8 Turbo, '97 Jetta Tdi (sold) |
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jgaudiello
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2005
Posts: 8
Location: WAFB, MO
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:04 am Post subject: |
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I'm a fairly new bug owner and am concerned that I may have a potential problem in this area. I want to make sure I know what I'm doing before I cause a fire instead of preventing one. My fuel filter is in the engine compartment and the rubber hoses are not clamped at the filter. I want to change it and put clamps on it but I have some questions. How do I clamp the lines without damaging them while changing the filter and what type of clamps should I use at the filter connections?
Thanks! |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 11:35 am Post subject: |
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Standard worm gear hose clamps work well. Don't use those cheap $0.50 filters. Get a Fram G2 like I use. The have a bulge on the end to prevent the hose from pulling off.
Use genuine German woven hose and not 1/4" rubber hose.
Having the filter in the engine compartment is not the problem. One problem is the brass inlet on the stock carb. Most are just pressed in and when you hand a fuel filter on it, they sometimes pull out due to the vibration and weight of the filter full of fuel.
Another major cause is the lack of normal maint.
Change the hoses every few years. Change the filter every year. Distributor cap and wires should also be changed so they don't arc.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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jgaudiello
Samba Member
Joined: June 12, 2005
Posts: 8
Location: WAFB, MO
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Thanks! Where can I get the woven fuel hose? |
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Delaware Dave
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2003
Posts: 359
Location: Delaware, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jgaudiello wrote: |
I'm a fairly new bug owner and am concerned that I may have a potential problem in this area. I want to make sure I know what I'm doing before I cause a fire instead of preventing one. My fuel filter is in the engine compartment and the rubber hoses are not clamped at the filter. I want to change it and put clamps on it but I have some questions. How do I clamp the lines without damaging them while changing the filter and what type of clamps should I use at the filter connections?
Thanks! |
Sounds like you're worried about fuel spilling while your changing the filter. The amount in the line isn't a lot, even with the big filter. I place a rag under the line, and slowly work the top connection off the carb, then tip it upside down, and drain out what I can like into a cup or something. The lawnmower doesn't care where it's next drink is coming from. Then I take the connection off the pump. The good fabric-braided 5mm fuel line is still very cheap, so I changing it every time.
I have to agree with Glenn. The cheap filter that is most commonly available doesn't have a bulb or a spur on it that grabs and hold onto the fuel line. Check this out:
The two on the right I picked up at a motorcycle shop last week. I'm thinking of trying the smallest one, next time I change filters. Either of the ones on the right are easier to see through, so I should see any crud if it builds up. I want to try the smaller one so that there is a minimum of weight on the brass inlet on the carb. They both have barbed ends so that when used with hose clamps, there's almost no chance of them coming off. You can use the small hose clamps that Glenn mentioned. I use ones from Mercedes Benz (I used to work there) just because I like them better.
In fact, when I change fuel filters, I usually cut two new sections of line, attach them to the filter and put on the clamps on either end of the filter before I ever open the engine lid. All I have to do then is pop the old one off the carb and the fuel pump, and put the new one on. Takes only a few minutes, and if you make two filters like this, you can carry one in your trunk, just in case.
_________________
\X/ Delaware Dave
'71 Standard Beetle Project
'69 Type 3 fastback (sold), '65 Standard Beetle (sold),
'05 Passat 1.8 Turbo, '97 Jetta Tdi (sold) |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:39 pm Post subject: |
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Most catalog and online vendors sell German fuel hose. You can also get it from a vendor at a show.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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Delaware Dave
Samba Member
Joined: August 29, 2003
Posts: 359
Location: Delaware, USA
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:40 pm Post subject: |
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| jgaudiello wrote: |
| Thanks! Where can I get the woven fuel hose? |
My local Euro auto parts place has it, so maybe yours does too. The trick is to ask for the 5mm size, don't get the SAE stuff, it might be just large enough to slip off.
_________________
\X/ Delaware Dave
'71 Standard Beetle Project
'69 Type 3 fastback (sold), '65 Standard Beetle (sold),
'05 Passat 1.8 Turbo, '97 Jetta Tdi (sold) |
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 12:50 pm Post subject: |
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There's actually 2 sizes... 5mm and the large is either 7mm or 7.7mm.
For a stock engine, get the smaller.
_________________
Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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John M.
Samba Member
Joined: July 22, 2005
Posts: 3833
Location: Boulder, CO
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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I really like Bughaus.com. I ordered some 5mm German Braided Cloth Line for $3.99 a meter.
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Current: 1972 Beetle - 96V EV
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Desertbusman
Samba Member
Joined: June 03, 2005
Posts: 14655
Location: Arizona
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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Yep, a lot of them burn. Check out the underside of engine lids and around the engine compartments of a bunch of VW's and see the evidence. Of course you probably won't find blistered paint and soot in nice shinny restored ones. A lot of times it was a fire that prompted the restoration.
I have had the habit of checking the engine, on top and underneath, frequently. Everytime I stop at a highway rest stop and frequently at gas station fill-ups. One of the best preventions is keeping it all clean and spotless all the time. Then any kind of a leak (fuel or oil) is real quick and easy to spot. Also there isn't the slime and junk to burn. And just because it's a woven fabric covered fuel line doesn't mean it is good. Not all are German good quality. Some have been leakers real quick. Months, not a year or two. Keep it all clean and dry and a hose that gets damp or seeps is easy to spot. And every part of the whole system, from one end to the other, and every item involved, is a potential problem spot. Every clamp, screw, connecter, gasket, tube, hose, etc. Check them closely and often.
And there are a lot of other good posts on Samba. Here were a couple recently. I would be afraid to type in "fire" and hit the search button. Might just overload my computer.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=131189&highlight=
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=126925&highlight=
It's good this is a repeat topic. We need the reminder.
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71 Superbug
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Glenn
Mr. 010
Joined: December 25, 2001
Posts: 76941
Location: Sneaking up behind you
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 4:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Desertbusman wrote: |
| It's good this is a repeat topic. We need the reminder. |
I just made it a "sticky"?
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Glenn
74 Beetle Specs | 74 Beetle Restoration | 2180cc Engine
"You may not get what you pay for, but you always pay for what you get"
Member #1009
#BlueSquare |
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73speedbug
Samba Member
Joined: September 05, 2005
Posts: 71
Location: Back in the USA!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 10:52 pm Post subject: |
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| not only do you need to worry about gas fires, but under back seat fires. I was in need of a new battery on my 1st bug so being young and not doing my own work at thetime, I took it to sears for a new one. on the way back home with the wife and two kids strapped in the back seat, we heard a bunch of cars honking and my wife noticed smoke in the car. I pulled over and literally yanked my screaming kids out of the car and pulled my back seat out to find under the seat was on fire. i used my daughters jacket to put out the fire. Foud out they did not put the plastic caps over the battery and when I was going over bumps the kids bouncing was making the back seat springs hit the positive post on the battery. Sparking and igniting the burlap stuffing under the seat. Ruined all the wiring and heating my kids butts up real hot. Needless to say I chewed some sears ass and got a new battery and wiring. So check out under your rear seats and cover that battery. |
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