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Bryan67
Samba Member
Joined: January 01, 2003
Posts: 2940
Location: Fresno, Ca.
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 Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| I think any bus w/out reduction boxes and a stock 1600 is labored let alone with a 36er. Just getting on the freeway would be agony. |
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EvilBus
Samba Art Critic
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 1523
Location: Texas Damnit!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 9:23 am Post subject: |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
| EvilBus wrote: |
there's a bit of work in setting up a 40HP judson on a 1600.
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A Judson on a 1600 engine just opens up a whole new can of worms...I've yet to see a 1600 Judson set-up that works reliably. Of course if anyone knows of one I'd be very interested to hear about it. |
Well I've talked to two folks who have done it. There isn't any complaints as far as it being reliable, at least from what they tell me. I may try it on another bus I have. If you certainly want more power, there's less expensive ways such as going to a 1915 and more carb.
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John Moxon 
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 10:23 am Post subject: |
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[quote="EvilBus"]
| John Moxon wrote: |
| EvilBus wrote: |
A Judson on a 1600 engine just opens up a whole new can of worms...I've yet to see a 1600 Judson set-up that works reliably. Of course if anyone knows of one I'd be very interested to hear about it. |
Well I've talked to two folks who have done it. There isn't any complaints as far as it being reliable, at least from what they tell me. I may try it on another bus I have. If you certainly want more power, there's less expensive ways such as going to a 1915 and more carb. |
Setting-up on a 1600 isn't uncommon, just going all the way and overdriving them is unusual. The heat sink fins are just too small to channel away the heat so some other method of cooling the casing has to be devised. Certainly stock 1600 manifolds and carbs can't be used either so where it's simple on a 1200 be prepared for a challenge if you want to overdrive.
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John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
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EvilBus
Samba Art Critic
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 1523
Location: Texas Damnit!
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| Posted: Sun Sep 04, 2005 2:38 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="John Moxon"]
| EvilBus wrote: |
| John Moxon wrote: |
| EvilBus wrote: |
A Judson on a 1600 engine just opens up a whole new can of worms...I've yet to see a 1600 Judson set-up that works reliably. Of course if anyone knows of one I'd be very interested to hear about it. |
Well I've talked to two folks who have done it. There isn't any complaints as far as it being reliable, at least from what they tell me. I may try it on another bus I have. If you certainly want more power, there's less expensive ways such as going to a 1915 and more carb. |
Setting-up on a 1600 isn't uncommon, just going all the way and overdriving them is unusual. The heat sink fins are just too small to channel away the heat so some other method of cooling the casing has to be devised. Certainly stock 1600 manifolds and carbs can't be used either so where it's simple on a 1200 be prepared for a challenge if you want to overdrive. |
They've used European 1300 CC Dual port manifolds and 30/31 Pict carbs. I don't know about overdriving it, but the air charge coming in does provide some cooling. I hadn't expected the overdriving issue, just stock pulleys are being used.
Like I said, I've thought about it for two years and have seen it done. I'd be curious in doing it to see what would happen. Like I said there's less expensive ways of getting power out of a 1600.. Going with a 40+ year old supercharger still has it's coolness factor.
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Bongo
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2004
Posts: 872
Location: Egå, Denmark
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 12:18 am Post subject: |
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Isn't it refreshing to talk about spending so much time, money and energy to get 4 or 5 extra hp and a couple of lb/ft of torque, in theses days of stock 450 hp 3 litre Audis & BMWs. FFS I even had 160hp in my diesel transporter. No, 36-40hp is much more fun 
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1964 Standard
1962 Single Cab
2002 Golf St.Car |
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John Moxon
Samba Moderator
Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 4:24 am Post subject: |
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| EvilBus wrote: |
They've used European 1300 CC Dual port manifolds and 30/31 Pict carbs. I don't know about overdriving it, but the air charge coming in does provide some cooling. I hadn't expected the overdriving issue, just stock pulleys are being used.
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Yes that's the usual set-up but if they had run a boost gauge with it they might have been shocked to see the maximum boost with the stock Judson pulley was a big fat Zero!
Couple that with a smaller than stock manifold and carb I think your BD would see them off quite easily
| Bongo wrote: |
| Isn't it refreshing to talk about spending so much time, money and energy to get 4 or 5 extra hp and a couple of lb/ft of torque, in theses days of stock 450 hp 3 litre Audis & BMWs. FFS I even had 160hp in my diesel transporter. No, 36-40hp is much more fun |
If I didn't know you better Bongo I'd think you were extracting the urine. 
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John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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EvilBus
Samba Art Critic
Joined: June 18, 2004
Posts: 1523
Location: Texas Damnit!
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 6:17 am Post subject: |
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barnjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 212
Location: london
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 7:56 am Post subject: where was I |
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so What's the top speed from a Judson powered 30/36hp bus ?
Thanks
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Luca Brasi's got nothing on me
54 rhd Judson super narrowed
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John Moxon
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 9:12 am Post subject: Re: where was I |
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| barnjunkie wrote: |
so What's the top speed from a Judson powered 30/36hp bus ?
Thanks |
Well as you can see from this thread Trevor it's a bit of try it and see. It's not as if you're having to go out and buy a Judson kit especially for this project so you've nothing to lose by trying, except time.
The reason why nobody has come up with a definative answer is that your combination is a bit unusual. Most people with a 1200/Judson/Barndoor combination stick to stock transmission and are happy with the extra mid-range punch the blower provides.
Those who lose the transfer boxes go with an uprated engine an tranny so that's why you haven't got your answer. BUT...if you go for the unusual combo you could be setting a new trend
If you're worried about driving on the UKs crowded Motorways at 55, I wouldn't worry. We drove our Brazilian Kombi to Hessisch this summer at those speeds and it was a beautiful relaxing cruise.
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John.
Judson Supercharger Information on The Samba
My 1958 Shorrock Supercharged Karmann Ghia
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j.pickens
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2002
Posts: 9789
Location: Exit 7, New Jersey
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| Posted: Mon Sep 05, 2005 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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Hey, Evilbus,
I hadn't seen the photos of your Judson Barndoor setup.
VERY Nice!!!
And, yeah, kinda the whole point of the Judson thing is genuine vintage horsepower. That's why a Judsonized bus would most often be running stock or "stock style" engine and drivetrain components. If you just want horsepower, there are MUCH cheaper ways to do it, along with de-RGB-ing the drivetrain to get higher highway speeds the larger engines allow.
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| BeaterBarndoor wrote: |
i wish more people would actually drive their vws rather than just talking about what they have in the garage. |
| Red Fau Veh wrote: |
If you've seen one sunroof swivel seat kombi, you've seen them all!  |
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Bongo
Samba Member
Joined: December 03, 2004
Posts: 872
Location: Egå, Denmark
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 1:06 am Post subject: |
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| And, yeah, kinda the whole point of the Judson thing is genuine vintage horsepower. That's why a Judsonized bus would most often be running stock or "stock style" engine and drivetrain components. If you just want horsepower, there are MUCH cheaper ways to do it, along with de-RGB-ing the drivetrain to get higher highway speeds the larger engines allow. |
Exactly. The case for the defence rests.
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John Moxon
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Joined: March 07, 2004
Posts: 13952
Location: Southampton U.K.
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Scotty
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003
Posts: 1531
Location: Northampton - Uk
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 5:37 am Post subject: |
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| John Moxon wrote: |
Anyway Julian Hunt runs his Judson BD without reduction boxes Trevor, ask him what he got out of his and what tranny he uses. |
Nope, he stills has his reduction boxes, hence the mad angle of his rear wheels! Well he did run his judson....
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| EverettB wrote: |
I'd be curious to know the length of his tip.
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http://scottys-stuff.blogspot.com/ |
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John Moxon
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Joined: March 07, 2004
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ROBERTOuk
Samba Member
Joined: February 26, 2004
Posts: 3
Location: london england ahhh not the usa " i wish"
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| Posted: Tue Sep 06, 2005 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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ahhh i tell ya what scrap the idea..give me ya barndoor..ill even come pick it up...might aswell through in the super charger just as a thank u for takin that heep of rust away for u ....the council would charge but not me 
Rob |
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barnjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 212
Location: london
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| Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2005 6:19 am Post subject: |
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| j.pickens wrote: |
Hey, Evilbus,
I hadn't seen the photos of your Judson Barndoor setup.
VERY Nice!!!
And, yeah, kinda the whole point of the Judson thing is genuine vintage horsepower. That's why a Judsonized bus would most often be running stock or "stock style" engine and drivetrain components. If you just want horsepower, there are MUCH cheaper ways to do it, along with de-RGB-ing the drivetrain to get higher highway speeds the larger engines allow. |
I already have the Judson and a 30/36hp bus engine
but the bus will be lowered and narrowed front and back
thats why there will be no reduction boxes/ gears
the gearbox and shafts will be from a 54 bug
so inkeeping with the 1954 parts
thanks for the input so far 
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Luca Brasi's got nothing on me
54 rhd Judson super narrowed
BDM Wannabe |
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barnjunkie
Samba Member
Joined: March 28, 2004
Posts: 212
Location: london
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| Posted: Fri Sep 29, 2006 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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I already have the Judson and a 30/36hp bus engine
but the bus will be lowered and narrowed front and back
thats why there will be no reduction boxes/ gears
the gearbox and shafts will be from a 54 bug
so inkeeping with the 1954 parts
thanks for the input so far [/quote]
I've been following this little no.
on KCW's site
Its owned by Rich ricobuggy SD
Someone please let me know how it drives??
this is straight axel and judson
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Luca Brasi's got nothing on me
54 rhd Judson super narrowed
BDM Wannabe |
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felix ehrhardt
Samba Member
Joined: January 16, 2003
Posts: 91
Location: Germany
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 4:51 am Post subject: |
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sorry I can give no know-how how it drives...
But something to the judson theme.Guys here in D are making repro Judsons.For stock and modified for 1600cc.
http://www.theluckybug.de/index.html
Hey that bd above looks perfect ! |
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ricobuggy
Samba Member
Joined: September 18, 2002
Posts: 53
Location: St. Charles, IL
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| Posted: Sat Sep 30, 2006 11:18 pm Post subject: Judson BD |
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That is my Judson BD that John built up. Take a look on their site for all the specifics regarding the entire bus set-up in the forums and pictures...
To give you your answer, I will prefice it by saying it is a bit hard to judge exactly the speed as the speedo is in km/h and only goes to 80. I manage to spin it completely around to zero without maxing out the pedal. This is a bit freaky... Also, with the rims/wheels being different than stock, that too has some effect on the speedo. I imagine it goes to 60-65mph. I have not really maxed it out as I am still breaking in the engine and Judson.
You need to identify what it is you want. The Judson is great for a vintage look and feel. It will not get you anywhere that much faster. If you want speed, put in a 1600 and be done with it...
Let me know if you want any more info.
Rich |
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Rusting Hulk
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Joined: August 20, 2002
Posts: 646
Location: Malvern UK
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| Posted: Sun Oct 01, 2006 2:34 pm Post subject: |
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I think the answer to get a higher cruising speed is in the gearing/final drive ratio if the gearing can be sorted so that 4th is tall, then the the bus wont be so restricted by the gearing.
Trevor i know Lee Griffith in Manchester has a stock 30hp still with reduction gears, he has messed with the gears to give a higher top end. His bus is a 57 i think. You could speak to him.
The thing is if you are loosing your reduction gears and using a splitcase trans you will need around the same as a 1640cc to pull the bus.
Simon
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His Judson isn't terminal...I think the injector tube in his carb worked loose and dropped into his Judson locking the vanes against the casing. He's had my Judson "Holdit Tool" for the last 18 months and still hasn't plucked up the courage to open it up to check the damage. 
