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vwsplitman Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2003 Posts: 322 Location: Plymouth, CT
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Posted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 12:00 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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If you put the silver MS primer on new metal, I would either rough it up with a 220 grit sandpaper, or use a good metal prep(phosphoric acid) to etch the metal for good adhesion and to get any oils off. When using the MS silver primer by itself and no topcoat, we recommend 3 coats. It doesnt need a topcoat. UV wont affect it. Ive got pieces outside on a daily basis for over 14 years with no bad affects . To topcoat do it within a couple of days. If not then scuff everything down and then topcoat . Done testing and the MS silver by itself easily outlasts epoxy primers and etch primers as far as rusting. Chuck |
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DurocShark Samba Member

Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 6635 Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 6:09 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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I wire wheeled first, but yeah. Cat piss away! _________________ No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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Chickensoup Samba Member

Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5390 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Mon Feb 24, 2020 5:04 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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Ok cool, I happen to like the silver. But will it work well if it take my pan down to bare metal, then prep it with something like phosphoric acid?
Thanks |
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DurocShark Samba Member

Joined: April 05, 2004 Posts: 6635 Location: Crappy town in a crappy state. But the beach is nearby, so I have that going for me.
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Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 8:44 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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Chickensoup wrote: |
question,
so i want to use master series for my chassis but should i just use the silver or should i top coat it? anyone w/ experience?
thanks |
I used it on interior and exterior rust. Even where exposed to the weather in the rain gutters it lasted several years (and Colorado weather as a daily!) until I sold my bus. So if you topcoat, it's because you don't like the silver look. It didn't need a topcoat in my experience. _________________ No boom today. Boom tomorrow. There's always a boom tomorrow. |
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Chickensoup Samba Member

Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5390 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Sun Feb 23, 2020 7:20 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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question,
so i want to use master series for my chassis but should i just use the silver or should i top coat it? anyone w/ experience?
thanks |
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Ceckert64 Samba Member

Joined: September 16, 2015 Posts: 2061 Location: Houghton, MI for now
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Posted: Thu Jun 27, 2019 8:55 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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Okay, I have read this whole thread, and now I’m more unsure of what to use than when I started. My situation is that I will be blasting the underside and wheel wells of my 64 while it’s upside down. My first question is should I use POR-15? The lower 8+ inches of my body had to be replaced, I will be using seam sealer, but I’m very paranoid about rust coming back. I’m using PPG paint 3 part system, epoxy primer, epoxy base coat, and urethane clear coat. My question is should I use this paint system and then put POR-15 over it, bare metal with POR-15 over it, or use the paint system I’m using and put a different type of undercoating on it (rust bullet, master series, etc)? Truck bed liner stuff? Also, what is a good seam sealer to use? I’m in Michigan and live on a gravel road so it needs to hold up to gravel and salt well. Any suggestions appreciated, thanks for the help! _________________ 1964 sunroof Beetle Restoration "Herbie"
“Joann” 1970 Elm Green Squareback
1972 Yellow Tin Top Westfalia -Sold
“Fitz” 1971 Westfalia Poptop
“Rome” 91 Syncro |
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Mike Fisher Samba Member

Joined: January 30, 2006 Posts: 18023 Location: Eugene, OR
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Posted: Mon May 06, 2019 8:44 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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fubar1962 wrote: |
I was browsing through the helpful posts about rust proofing. Has anyone used the sealant where the guy cuts the boat in half and reseals it with the product? I have used just the rattle can product for my wheel wells of my 71 Bay Window. Seems to work fine...so far. I also used the 'fat mat' for the entire interior panels, when we completed the ground up. It really cut the road noise a bunch.
On another note, does anyone know where I can get a reman steering gear box for my 71 T2 Bay Window? The PO installed a TRW which is adjusted out to its max. I want 'power steering' back. Thank you in advance. Cheers. |
Place a WTB ad for a steering box in the Bay Window 'parts for sale' Classifieds.  _________________ https://imgur.com/user/FisherSquareback/posts
69 FI/AT square Daily Driver
66 sunroof,67,70,71,71,71AT,72,72AT,73 Parts
two 57 oval ragtops sold
'68 Karmann Ghia sold
Society is like stew. If you don't keep it stirred up you end up with a lot of scum on the top! - Russ_Wolfe/Edward Abbey |
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fubar1962 Samba Member
Joined: June 13, 2016 Posts: 1 Location: Portland Oregon
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Posted: Thu May 02, 2019 11:39 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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I was browsing through the helpful posts about rust proofing. Has anyone used the sealant where the guy cuts the boat in half and reseals it with the product? I have used just the rattle can product for my wheel wells of my 71 Bay Window. Seems to work fine...so far. I also used the 'fat mat' for the entire interior panels, when we completed the ground up. It really cut the road noise a bunch.
On another note, does anyone know where I can get a reman steering gear box for my 71 T2 Bay Window? The PO installed a TRW which is adjusted out to its max. I want 'power steering' back. Thank you in advance. Cheers. |
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rodeking Samba Member
Joined: October 09, 2017 Posts: 375 Location: FL, Ontario
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Posted: Sun Feb 03, 2019 9:30 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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After reading this whole thread all I can say is that the very best rust preventive coating, bar none, is hot dip galvanizing. Nothing else compares.
I rebuilt a 1990 F150 4x4 and I disassembled and blasted the complete frame and had it hot dipped for $250 about 8 years ago. Then I shot it with epoxy and black urethane, it will last pretty much forever.
Not sure if that would be possible on a bug pan without it warping though.. the hot dip tank is about 800F. |
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scrivyscriv Samba Electrician

Joined: October 04, 2011 Posts: 3223 Location: Memphis
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Posted: Sat Jul 14, 2018 12:39 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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c21darrel wrote: |
I have used muriatic acid and dont like it for a couple reasons. Unlike phos acid I cant add water to dilute and pour it out on the ground... |
Add baking soda to it until it stops fizzing.. then it's safe to pour out on the ground. _________________ Robert in Memphis
Dünkelgrügen 1967 Java Green bug thread
Engine rebuild thread
If you're ever in the Memphis area, you are welcome to stop by for advice and help. |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:51 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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Right now I'm mixing my own acid blend and don't see any benefits for more than %30 muriatic acid. Usually I cut phosphoric acid with a little vinager and or muriatic acid which seems to work the best. When it stops being effective I wash it off ,let it dry and go at it again. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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c21darrel Samba Member
Joined: January 22, 2009 Posts: 8223 Location: San Dimas
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Evil_Fiz Samba Member

Joined: May 06, 2011 Posts: 1094 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 9:29 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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theKbStockpiler wrote: |
You must have a few rust buckets on your hands as well... |
Nope, just one Ghia with less rust than most. I am mainly treating the hardware with the vinegar dip. The bigger parts I an blasting to A) clean them and B) profile the metal for better MasterSeries adhesion.
theKbStockpiler wrote: |
The issue I have with Muriatic acid is it's not much better than vinegar, it adds as much rust as it takes off unless you neutralize it somehow and don't let it dry out. |
I have found that even if I just rinse the parts I dipped in vinegar and leave then sitting out, they don't tend to develope too much flash rust.
Thanks for the detergent info. The Eastwood After Blast Cleans the de-rusted parts, converts any microscopic rust, and leaves behind a Zinc coating. It claims to promote paint adhesion; that is yet to be determined.
Cheers,
Emil _________________ “…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 7:54 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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You must have a few rust buckets on your hands as well Evil! I should ask the samba to rename this forum ,'the rust and dent forum'.
I'm using Arm and Hammer powdered laundry detergent.
I'm using it to neutralize the massive flash rusting from Muriatic acid though.
The issue I have with Muriatic acid is it's not much better than vinegar, it adds as much rust as it takes off unless you neutralize it somehow and don't let it dry out. You can't leave it unattended ,let it dry and no one wants to watch acid work on rust for very long.
I'm trying to supersede sandblasting if I have the time to wait for the acid to work as effectively as possible. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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Evil_Fiz Samba Member

Joined: May 06, 2011 Posts: 1094 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:54 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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I have been doing something similar to "theKbStockpiler."
For submersible parts my process is:
- Wire brush heavy rust
- Soak in vinegar for several days
- Wire brush to remove rust residue, rinse in 50/50 water/antifreeze, repeat until clean
- Soak in Eastwood After Blast for 12 - 24 Hrs
- Wipe dry, wet with After Blast, repeat until clean
For non-submersible parts my process is:
- Media blast with crushed glass
- Wet with After Blast, wipe dry, repeat until clean
The Eastwood After Blast appears to be doing a good job of keeping the parts rust free. As an experiment I wiped one part with a wet towel and left to air dry, and handled another part with bare hands (natural body oil present.) Neither part is showing signs of surface rust.
...We're all in this together,
Emil _________________ “…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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Evil_Fiz Samba Member

Joined: May 06, 2011 Posts: 1094 Location: Jacksonville, FL
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Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2018 4:31 am Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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theKbStockpiler wrote: |
I recently discovered that powdered laundry detergent completely stops flash rusting. First rinse and brush with water ,then soak if you can, and or brush on 1/4 cup of the detergent to 1 gallon of water for a few minutes and then rinse again with water.  |
What brand detergent are you using? I am curious to know what ingredients are involved. _________________ “…It's not just about what's interesting. It's also about what's helpful, and it's helpful even if it helps just one other guy working on a Ghia.”
kiwighia68
See my build on TheSamba at:
The K_R_A_K_E_N_N : a 70 Ghia Convertible reinterpreted |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2018 8:12 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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My rust removing adventure continues. If acid stops being effective on a piece you're working on, wash it with the detergent I previously mentioned and let it thoroughly dry. The rust will then act like a sponge and absorb the acid and be effective again. _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Sat Feb 03, 2018 10:54 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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I recently discovered that powdered laundry detergent completely stops flash rusting. First rinse and brush with water ,then soak if you can, and or brush on 1/4 cup of the detergent to 1 gallon of water for a few minutes and then rinse again with water.  _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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theKbStockpiler Samba Member

Joined: July 07, 2012 Posts: 2316 Location: Rust Belt
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Posted: Thu Jan 25, 2018 6:42 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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I was using a mix of 70% phosphoric acid to 30% muriatic( I found this ratio works the best usually) but I tried vinegar instead of the muriatic. It worked about as good and does not evaporate so there is less danger of breathing the fumes. I don't think muriatic acid works that well on it's own and gives off a lot of fumes making it a big hassle. Muriatic acid does not seem to be able to penetrate the surface at all where as phosphoric will. Vinegar is a lot cheaper at about 15% the cost. I'm going to try to do a mix of 70% ,15% and 15% for a while.  _________________ My beetle is not competing with your beetle. I have the yellow beetle in my town. There is a red one, a green one ......
Use all safety devices including a mask. |
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TomWesty Samba Member
Joined: November 23, 2007 Posts: 3494 Location: Wyoming,USA
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Posted: Mon Jan 15, 2018 6:39 pm Post subject: Re: Rust Prevention Product Testing |
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If it is submersible I use Evaporust. As an example, the galvanized bars in my roof rack on my '71 Bay bus had worn through the galvanizing and were growing surface rust. I found a polyethylene toy sled that was long enough to accommodate the bars and poured in enough Evaporust to submerge them and let them sit for a day. The Evaporust removed the rust and and turned the steel a grayish color. I pulled them out and rinsed them with water and quickly dried them. After that I sprayed them with Rustoleum cold galvanizing spray and didn't expect much from it. It does have a high Zinc content. I was amazed that after the first coat that it looked and felt very much like hot galvanizing. I gave it 3 coats and they look like new. the Evaporust is about 27 bucks a gallon. It is a rust remover. I also have used an Ospho type converter called Oxygone. it is cheaper than Ospho and seems to work pretty well. _________________ If you haven't bled on them, you haven't worked on them.
Visit: www.tomcoryell.com and check out my music! |
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