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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5150
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:22 pm Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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Do you believe the original finish on the nails was brass plated?
I cleaned up a few og nails today and they look like they are possibly zinc plated.
I found some brass plated linoleum nails at the hardware store that look very close. Probably as close as one could hope for when matching up 50 year old hardware. They make a zinc plated version as well.
Would these be the same nails that attach the rack tag? _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Bendango Samba Member
Joined: September 04, 2005 Posts: 593
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Posted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:33 pm Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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How long is it before someone does a home "how to" brass plate nails for Westies using a home made furnace in the garden! _________________ I want a real garage.
WANTED - [WTB] 55-62 Bus Thin Lip Package Tray SWR
Getting Used - SWR 60 westy copy built by vw ( apparently )
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=320866
Braukuche wrote: |
Where did you find the elephant dick? |
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BarryL Samba Member
Joined: November 01, 2004 Posts: 14269 Location: Casa de Oro, California
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:24 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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burwin wrote: |
How long is it before someone does a home "how to" brass plate nails for Westies using a home made furnace in the garden! |
I was wondering why Westfalia wouldn't have used solid brass nails. Plated brass on steel just comes off with the tap of a nail set or hammer and the sides scrape off as it goes through the metal opening trim. I know brass is soft but surely Westfalia would have pilot holed them. |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10196 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:53 pm Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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Its just a tiny little pin nail, probably 1/16" or 3/32" or so, I can't imagine they would bother with a pilot. I can't remember whether we used brass or brass plated, and can't remember what was in there originally. I know I saved the originals, but I think they are in a box half way across the country.
I'm sure like everything I spent way too much time to try and find the best possible match, and in the end settled for something I thought was less than perfect. I'm sure it bothered me for as long as it took for me to fuss over the next thing I needed to find. And so the pattern repeats. |
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oakman Samba Member
Joined: February 05, 2014 Posts: 1715 Location: Edge of the Desert, Ca
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5150
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Posted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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campingbox wrote: |
Its just a tiny little pin nail, probably 1/16" or 3/32" or so, I can't imagine they would bother with a pilot. I can't remember whether we used brass or brass plated, and can't remember what was in there originally. I know I saved the originals, but I think they are in a box half way across the country.
I'm sure like everything I spent way too much time to try and find the best possible match, and in the end settled for something I thought was less than perfect. I'm sure it bothered me for as long as it took for me to fuss over the next thing I needed to find. And so the pattern repeats. |
^^^^^I know this pattern quite well. I spent 2 hours comparing nail heads/finishes. Those subhatch pics are very helpful, thanks.
The original nail is very close to a US spec. 15 gauge linoleum nail/pin nail; they are also called a windowshade bracket nail. They are steel. The closest match was found at Walmart. They are brass plated steel. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5150
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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Greg, do you remember what order you installed the sub hatch aluminum trim? Front/Rear pieces first, or side pieces first? _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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I remember that before straightening the trim it fit together easily. After straightening it it was kinda a pain. They kinda squashed it into place. _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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campingbox Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2000 Posts: 10196 Location: Petaluma, CA
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Posted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:49 pm Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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I don't. I think I was able to study the scratches at the ends and determine what order they went in. I hand polished that stuff. Usually I like to make aluminum very shiny but I didn't want to fade the patterns. We also thought about sanding it out nice and redoing the machine turning but at the end of the day it felt right just to leave them with the imperfections and just polish them out by hand. |
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Stocknazi Samba Member
Joined: June 18, 2004 Posts: 5150
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Posted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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campingbox wrote: |
I don't. I think I was able to study the scratches at the ends and determine what order they went in. I hand polished that stuff. Usually I like to make aluminum very shiny but I didn't want to fade the patterns. We also thought about sanding it out nice and redoing the machine turning but at the end of the day it felt right just to leave them with the imperfections and just polish them out by hand. |
Yeah, the side pieces are tight. I am installing them in the opposite order that I removed them. I removed the side pieces first. I straightened my trim as best as I could; they did look like they were forced into place. You have to bend the 2 ears on each side piece down to get them in/out so I want to get them in place properly on the first attempt.
I wonder if annealing the 2 ears would make them less likely to break bending them back to allow the trim to slide in?
I cleaned mine with a rag and lacquer thinner, then made one good pass with aluminum polish to clean off some of the oxidation. I did not want to use anything that was abrasive like steel wool.
These trims are a PITA for sure; taking them off, and putting them back on. This is the first sub hatch structure I have completely rebuilt. You were very correct in saying it's a ton of work. _________________ WANTED:
58 Westfalia cabinet knobs (3 needed), roof rack, and (7) privy tent poles (silver painted).
"When the people are afraid of the government, that's tyranny. But when the government is afraid of the people, that's liberty."
"Resistance to tyrants is obedience to God."
Thomas Jefferson |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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Due to the tire wear issue, we have barely driven this bus since last summer. But what to do? If we throw new tires on, they will wear out too. The rears were really bad after about 17K miles, while the front had loads of tread left.
Looked for pair of Goodyear High Miler 6.70-15s, but they are not available new anymore. Put up a wanted ad, and found one, in California. That we can pick up at Kelley Park. But we still need to get there.
And we want to get there in this bus.
Leaving Tuesday the 18th.
With a caravan of 7 or 8 VWs. The Northern contingent arrive about 1:30 or 2pm, defined by a ferry schedule.
Actually checked the rear toe, it was 5/16" in, the Cragar Kombi, the Gold Mine, and Cuddy's bus were all 1/8" out.
I had never checked rear toe before.
The tire wear was caused by the tranny being moved back by the adapter for using a tunnel case tranny in a split case tranny bus. This altered the angle of the swing axles and the tires slightly.
The first pic might not look so bad, but it wore to the flat areas between the strips, and the second pic shows the unworn tires. What a difference! Can you tell which two are the rear tires?
_________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7050 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:14 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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the front ones look perfect. what air pressure are you running? _________________ regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:25 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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Yes, there is lots of tread left on the fronts. Tire pressure was fine. I wish it was that easy a problem to fix.
The rear toe on the bus was 5/16" in, which was well off. I believe this wore the tires out early.
Bentley spec says it should be 0.5mm to 4.0mm toe out.
The gallery auto corrected the image to become sideways, sorry.
So, should we swap to a split case tranny?
Or maybe drill the spring plates to move the RGBs a bit back. If so, how far back do the spring plates need to move? _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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wcfvw69 Samba Purist
Joined: June 10, 2004 Posts: 13389 Location: Arizona
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:47 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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When I aligned these buses and all aircooled VW's in the early 80's, we set the rear to 0 toe in/out. If we set them to 1/8" out on the rear, we'd get inside tire wear.
I can't recall on 50's bus but are the spring plates not slotted to shift them to set the toe? _________________ Contact me at [email protected]
Follow me on instagram @sparxwerksllc
Decades of VW and VW parts restoration experience.
The Samba member since 2004.
**Now rebuilding throttle bodies for VW's and Porsche's**
**Restored German Bosch distributors for sale or I can restore yours**
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**Restored Porsche distributors or I can restore yours** |
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mandraks Samba Member
Joined: November 28, 2004 Posts: 7050 Location: Lawrenceville, Ga
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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Clara wrote: |
Yes, there is lots of tread left on the fronts. Tire pressure was fine. I wish it was that easy a problem to fix.
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Clara,
i was simply curious to know what air pressure you are running in the fronts. _________________ regards
Uli
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'53 3-Fold Oval, L35 Metallic Blue, looking for a narrow hatch panel |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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mandraks wrote: |
Clara wrote: |
Yes, there is lots of tread left on the fronts. Tire pressure was fine. I wish it was that easy a problem to fix.
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Clara,
i was simply curious to know what air pressure you are running in the fronts. |
oh, I forget . It might have been 32psi.
I found that those tires were too tall for the gearing/ engine combo. The bus had a 63 one ton trans installed by the PO. We put a 1600 in. First we had 205-75 15 tires, and that was nice. I loved the look of these 6.70 tires on Paul's 57, and we got some. I think they would have been better with the 1.40 boxes than the 1.26 boxes.
The other buses with 1/8" toe out do not have funny tire wear. We have driven the Cragar Kombi about 64K miles since 2009, no funny rear tire wear with that rear toe, which is in spec by the book. We did wear out a set of tires though, and replaced them.
No, the spring plates are not slotted. Stock 55-67 spring plates have circular holes.
Next step: slot spring plates...
My math suggested 0.170" elongation of the holes.
Any guesses on how that went? Show your math!
_________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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BlastMasterMannyFresh Samba Member
Joined: November 21, 2001 Posts: 6102 Location: #31peach
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:26 am Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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here's the answer to your problem Clara, just kidding, or maybe not, this came in a torsion housing I bought a while ago, it looks like they were running a late style tranny in and early bus with this home made plate, it looks ghetto as shit, but it's not pushing the tranny back
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:11 pm Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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So with the ovaled holes, the boxes moved back:
It was not enough to get the rear wheel alignment in spec.
EPIC FAIL!
I did not want to oval it anymore; I was concerned about the boxes falling off the end of the plates. SO argghhh! _________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:23 pm Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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Next plan... take the tranny out of the 58.
It was freshly rebuildt and never driven on. It was actually the one out of teh orange Boise Wholesale Dry Goods van. When we got that bus, it had no reverse. We swapped out for another, and took this to Jack at Wolfsburg Motorworks. He rebuildt it, and it got an NOS reverse/first slider, among other bits.
Greg pulled it out and I stripped the 1.40 boxes off
_________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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Clara Samba Member
Joined: June 14, 2003 Posts: 12400
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Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! |
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Oh no! It had no bowden tube bracket!!!
found one on another bus!
_________________ The Obsolete Air-Cooled Documentation Project http://oacdp.org/ |
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