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New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy!
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Stocknazi
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 4:22 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

Do you believe the original finish on the nails was brass plated?

I cleaned up a few og nails today and they look like they are possibly zinc plated.

I found some brass plated linoleum nails at the hardware store that look very close. Probably as close as one could hope for when matching up 50 year old hardware. They make a zinc plated version as well.

Would these be the same nails that attach the rack tag?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 09, 2016 7:33 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

How long is it before someone does a home "how to" brass plate nails for Westies using a home made furnace in the garden! Very Happy
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 10:24 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

burwin wrote:
How long is it before someone does a home "how to" brass plate nails for Westies using a home made furnace in the garden! Very Happy

I was wondering why Westfalia wouldn't have used solid brass nails. Plated brass on steel just comes off with the tap of a nail set or hammer and the sides scrape off as it goes through the metal opening trim. I know brass is soft but surely Westfalia would have pilot holed them.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 1:53 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

Its just a tiny little pin nail, probably 1/16" or 3/32" or so, I can't imagine they would bother with a pilot. I can't remember whether we used brass or brass plated, and can't remember what was in there originally. I know I saved the originals, but I think they are in a box half way across the country.

I'm sure like everything I spent way too much time to try and find the best possible match, and in the end settled for something I thought was less than perfect. I'm sure it bothered me for as long as it took for me to fuss over the next thing I needed to find. And so the pattern repeats.
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:11 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

Rusty original subhatch trim nails from my 65' so-35:


https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1584240.jpg

https://www.thesamba.com/vw/gallery/pix/1584239.jpg


Last edited by oakman on Sun Dec 11, 2016 4:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Stocknazi
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PostPosted: Sat Dec 10, 2016 3:38 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

campingbox wrote:
Its just a tiny little pin nail, probably 1/16" or 3/32" or so, I can't imagine they would bother with a pilot. I can't remember whether we used brass or brass plated, and can't remember what was in there originally. I know I saved the originals, but I think they are in a box half way across the country.

I'm sure like everything I spent way too much time to try and find the best possible match, and in the end settled for something I thought was less than perfect. I'm sure it bothered me for as long as it took for me to fuss over the next thing I needed to find. And so the pattern repeats.


^^^^^I know this pattern quite well. I spent 2 hours comparing nail heads/finishes. Those subhatch pics are very helpful, thanks.

The original nail is very close to a US spec. 15 gauge linoleum nail/pin nail; they are also called a windowshade bracket nail. They are steel. The closest match was found at Walmart. They are brass plated steel.
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Stocknazi
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 5:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Clara wrote:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Greg, do you remember what order you installed the sub hatch aluminum trim? Front/Rear pieces first, or side pieces first?
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Clara Premium Member
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 8:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I remember that before straightening the trim it fit together easily. After straightening it it was kinda a pain. They kinda squashed it into place.
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 06, 2017 11:49 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

I don't. I think I was able to study the scratches at the ends and determine what order they went in. I hand polished that stuff. Usually I like to make aluminum very shiny but I didn't want to fade the patterns. We also thought about sanding it out nice and redoing the machine turning but at the end of the day it felt right just to leave them with the imperfections and just polish them out by hand.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 07, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

campingbox wrote:
I don't. I think I was able to study the scratches at the ends and determine what order they went in. I hand polished that stuff. Usually I like to make aluminum very shiny but I didn't want to fade the patterns. We also thought about sanding it out nice and redoing the machine turning but at the end of the day it felt right just to leave them with the imperfections and just polish them out by hand.
Yeah, the side pieces are tight. I am installing them in the opposite order that I removed them. I removed the side pieces first. I straightened my trim as best as I could; they did look like they were forced into place. You have to bend the 2 ears on each side piece down to get them in/out so I want to get them in place properly on the first attempt.

I wonder if annealing the 2 ears would make them less likely to break bending them back to allow the trim to slide in?

I cleaned mine with a rag and lacquer thinner, then made one good pass with aluminum polish to clean off some of the oxidation. I did not want to use anything that was abrasive like steel wool.

These trims are a PITA for sure; taking them off, and putting them back on. This is the first sub hatch structure I have completely rebuilt. You were very correct in saying it's a ton of work.
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Clara Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 7:07 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

Due to the tire wear issue, we have barely driven this bus since last summer. But what to do? If we throw new tires on, they will wear out too. The rears were really bad after about 17K miles, while the front had loads of tread left.
Looked for pair of Goodyear High Miler 6.70-15s, but they are not available new anymore. Put up a wanted ad, and found one, in California. That we can pick up at Kelley Park. But we still need to get there.
And we want to get there in this bus.
Leaving Tuesday the 18th.
With a caravan of 7 or 8 VWs. The Northern contingent arrive about 1:30 or 2pm, defined by a ferry schedule.

Actually checked the rear toe, it was 5/16" in, the Cragar Kombi, the Gold Mine, and Cuddy's bus were all 1/8" out.
I had never checked rear toe before.

The tire wear was caused by the tranny being moved back by the adapter for using a tunnel case tranny in a split case tranny bus. This altered the angle of the swing axles and the tires slightly.

The first pic might not look so bad, but it wore to the flat areas between the strips, and the second pic shows the unworn tires. What a difference! Can you tell which two are the rear tires?

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 8:14 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

the front ones look perfect. what air pressure are you running?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

Yes, there is lots of tread left on the fronts. Tire pressure was fine. I wish it was that easy a problem to fix.
The rear toe on the bus was 5/16" in, which was well off. I believe this wore the tires out early.
Bentley spec says it should be 0.5mm to 4.0mm toe out.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

The gallery auto corrected the image to become sideways, sorry.

So, should we swap to a split case tranny?
Or maybe drill the spring plates to move the RGBs a bit back. If so, how far back do the spring plates need to move?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

When I aligned these buses and all aircooled VW's in the early 80's, we set the rear to 0 toe in/out. If we set them to 1/8" out on the rear, we'd get inside tire wear.

I can't recall on 50's bus but are the spring plates not slotted to shift them to set the toe?
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

Clara wrote:
Yes, there is lots of tread left on the fronts. Tire pressure was fine. I wish it was that easy a problem to fix.


Clara,

i was simply curious to know what air pressure you are running in the fronts.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

mandraks wrote:
Clara wrote:
Yes, there is lots of tread left on the fronts. Tire pressure was fine. I wish it was that easy a problem to fix.


Clara,

i was simply curious to know what air pressure you are running in the fronts.

oh, I forget . It might have been 32psi.

I found that those tires were too tall for the gearing/ engine combo. The bus had a 63 one ton trans installed by the PO. We put a 1600 in. First we had 205-75 15 tires, and that was nice. I loved the look of these 6.70 tires on Paul's 57, and we got some. I think they would have been better with the 1.40 boxes than the 1.26 boxes.

The other buses with 1/8" toe out do not have funny tire wear. We have driven the Cragar Kombi about 64K miles since 2009, no funny rear tire wear with that rear toe, which is in spec by the book. We did wear out a set of tires though, and replaced them.

No, the spring plates are not slotted. Stock 55-67 spring plates have circular holes.
Next step: slot spring plates...

My math suggested 0.170" elongation of the holes.
Any guesses on how that went? Show your math!

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

here's the answer to your problem Clara, just kidding, or maybe not, this came in a torsion housing I bought a while ago, it looks like they were running a late style tranny in and early bus with this home made plate, it looks ghetto as shit, but it's not pushing the tranny back


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Clara Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

So with the ovaled holes, the boxes moved back:
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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It was not enough to get the rear wheel alignment in spec.

EPIC FAIL!


I did not want to oval it anymore; I was concerned about the boxes falling off the end of the plates. SO argghhh!
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:23 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

Next plan... take the tranny out of the 58.
It was freshly rebuildt and never driven on. It was actually the one out of teh orange Boise Wholesale Dry Goods van. When we got that bus, it had no reverse. We swapped out for another, and took this to Jack at Wolfsburg Motorworks. He rebuildt it, and it got an NOS reverse/first slider, among other bits.

Greg pulled it out and I stripped the 1.40 boxes off
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 1:26 pm    Post subject: Re: New Bus- '56 Springframe Westy! Reply with quote

Oh no! It had no bowden tube bracket!!!


found one on another bus!
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