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Shortening a Pan
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EMPIImp69
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:19 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

You need to hammer the front part which is square into a more rounder shape like the rear half in order to minimize the gap when welding the halves together. It is easier to hammer if you heat the half up a bit, take your time.
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phatbstrd
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 9:01 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Thanks, I'll give it a shot. All of the books I have read just said to slide it back together. They tend to leave out instructions on making it fit back together at the tunnel.

Thanks again for all your help and quick response.

Matt
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mach4
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 23, 2007 8:01 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you use this cut plan it will fit together a lot nicer.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

I've forgotten where this came from originally, but it is a very well thought out plan. The jogs put the two halves together as close as possible with a minimum of persuading.

This picture shows how close the two halves on the tunnel will match

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


There are a few pictures on our build site that might be helpful

http://www.mach4.com/manx/week2.htm
http://www.mach4.com/manx/week3.htm

Good luck
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rick.d.brown
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 1:14 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's a picture of part of my chassis being shortened by Volksmagic in the UK:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


For an overview of a few different chassis shortening methods, see...

http://www.shining-wit.net/rick/buggy/design/body

There's also a full slide-show of my chassis being shortened, using the 'Volksmagic' method, at the bottom of the page.
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shermer-high
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 24, 2007 8:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is how I did mine.I drilled out the spot welds on tunnel and separated upper and lower.This helps with tunnel alignment and ads strength.Then I used extra tunnel piece to make reinforcement.My dads buggy was done in the 60s with straight cut and arc weld not very pretty.When the car was hit head on at 45 the shifter area shattered and bent the frame head but never hurt the weld.

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manxbuggy
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 25, 2007 11:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

There is a lot of great information in this thread that I wish I had when I shortened the pan for my buggy. I used the delta cut method, but also removed the top side of the tunnel from the handbrake to just forward of the shifter and moved them back about 6 inches so the handbrake is about 1 inch forward of the VIN stamp. This made the driving position more comfortable for me as my seats sit low and all the way back on the stock tracks, I don't have to reach for the shifter. A $30 4 inch grinder from the local home improvement store with thin cut-off wheels made for quick, clean cuts with minimal grinding needed for final fitting. The cautions about not cutting the control tubes inside the tunnel are a good thing to remember. A little persuading with a 2 lb. sledge after tack welding got everything lined up pretty well for final welding. I had a lot of trouble getting my shifter rod cut and re-welded with the right alignment until somebody recommended using the $10 adjustable weld-on shifter adjuster.

Next time I will use the laser layout method for cut lines, move the shifter back an additional 2 inches by removing the extra space between the shifter and handbrake, add a gusseted (doubled thickness) round access hole for clutch cable replacement on the passenger side of the pedal assembly, and reinforce the clutch cable tube at the pedal.
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lostinbaja
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 26, 2007 5:38 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

When properly welded, butt welding the panels is just as strong as the "Volksmagic" method but alot quicker and easier. The "Volksmagic" method will look cleaner when completed because of the one piece tunnel bottom.
I have seen a buggy the went off the road at 50mph, backwards into a ditch. The shortening job was nothing more then a straight cut across and weld, no gussets and no tabs. The tunnel ripped in half at the "E brake". The tunnel weld was straight and uneffected.
I think people are reading way too much into thie shortening process. All the different cutting methods do is basically make the finished product more asthetically appealing, not stronger. The E brake area of the tunnel is not as strong as a butt welded tunnel.
Jerry...
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Oil_Eater
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PostPosted: Mon Apr 09, 2007 6:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Putting the halves back together Reply with quote

phatbstrd wrote:
Everything went well with the cutting, but the shape of the tunnel halves obviously doesn't match up. Is it correct that I need to do some reshaping on the back half to match the front, or am I missing something?


You are correct.
I'm going to "steal" the images of DSC's pan to point things out.

Here you can see where the two halves are put back together and not yet welded. See the difference in the width of the tunnels? By the e-brake, it is flat with squared off shoulders while the rear portion of the tunnel is rounder in the shoulders. Its probably just what yours looks like.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.




Now take a look at the same pan welded. If you look closely, you will see a "strap" of tunnel waste material cut and shaped to fit over the square shoulder of the front portion of the tunnel. It spans over the rounded shoulder of the rear portion of the tunnel and makes it reinforced in that area as well as transitioning the two slightly different shapes:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Do your self a favor though and keep the metal as close as possible to the tunnel when you weld it. If you build up the patch too much, you won't be able to slide your stock seats back very far, and can make it difficult to fit aftermarket seats.

Hope this helps,
Jay
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widefive63
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PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: The Z cut: almost 10 year old now Reply with quote

Hi to all

Thanks to all for your feedback on the Z cut method I describe in my home page ďhttp://www.dunebuggynostalgia .comĒ( http://membres.lycos.fr/dbn/) .

This method came to my mind almost ten years ago when I started my Manx project. At that time, I had no internet access but the few straight or angled shortening work I had seen in mags or on the rotten buggy floorpan I was starting from, told me I had to find something else. As I live in France were buggies are not very common I had nobody to advise me. I worked first with the enlarged picture of the vw pan were I tried different cutting lines that were cut with scissors for test fit. When I had the right line I started the real job.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As the floors of my frame were history I started by chiseling them away. The work became then very easy . I shortened the tunnel first and then I shortened each floor before welding them in place.

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I hadnít thought that the few snapshots taken then, later put online thru my small home page would almost ten years later inspire and help people building their buggy project. But thatís what internet is all about!

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All that said my Manx is still not finished (donít laught) but little by little I have managed to find all the neccessary parts to achieve my target , a mid/ late 60ís looking Manx. My last find is a NOS ABS dash found in Texas last week. What is missing is a only time! I hope someday I will find time to update my homepage to show the progress.

Best regards from France.

Nicolas
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benchracer1
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are the fuel lines located and how are they dealt with?
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manxdavid
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PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nicholas!!! Greetings from way back!!! Hows it going old friend???

Dave.
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JayinMI
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PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's how I did mine (based on Nicolas' style):

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1026...highlight=

I still haven't figured out my floors the way I want yet...I wish someone would actually supply measurements with those drawings. I think I'm going to switch to some diamond plate and rectangle tubing and make my own.

Jay
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just a quick question what do you guys measure off of to ensure that the frame gets welded square and doesn't look like it's going sideways down the road is there anything suitable to use as a reference spot measuring diagonally?
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mach4
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you leave the front beam on, you can simply measure from the top of the shock tower on the rear diagonally to the top of the shock tower on the front. If you don't want to be wrestling with the weight of the beam, you can do something like attaching a piece of pipe or a piece of wood to the front frame head to give you a reference point. Measure your reference points BEFORE cutting so you know the geometry of the cut pan will match that of the original. The second axis you can simply sight along your front reference to the rear shock towers. The third axis isn't as critical but for what it's worth, I build a jig out of angle iron that the two pieces could slide on to maintain longitudinal integrity.

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Image courtesy of DSC
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To ensure straightness I tack welded about a 8 foot pipe to the frame head channel and another one across the rear shock towers. By doing this you will greatly exaggerate the alignment angles and you will see any twist or turn from front to back or side to side.

Think about it.

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PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmler wrote:
The pan is not officially welded back together yet, so there's not much more to tell at this point. I have a broken clutch tube I'm repairing.

I probably will not brace over the weld with a section of removed tunnel. In this last picture you can see I left some "tabs" from the rear section. I think by bending those in and welding them to the sides of the tunnel, it will reinforce more than a strip across the top. The tunnel is stamped in that area that almost makes it look like those tabs are supposed to go there.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Most of the cutting was either by a sawzall or an air powered body saw from Harbor Freight. The tunnel is some pretty tough stuff. Buy plenty of blades. Also be careful not to slice the various tubes. That's the wrong place to shorten them! Wink


I like this overlap method - but to make it even stronger how about cutting a 3" hole in the outside tab and welding that all the way round. That way the tab is welded front and back.
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PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neil Davies wrote:
Jimmler wrote:
The pan is not officially welded back together yet, so there's not much more to tell at this point. I have a broken clutch tube I'm repairing.

I probably will not brace over the weld with a section of removed tunnel. In this last picture you can see I left some "tabs" from the rear section. I think by bending those in and welding them to the sides of the tunnel, it will reinforce more than a strip across the top. The tunnel is stamped in that area that almost makes it look like those tabs are supposed to go there.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Most of the cutting was either by a sawzall or an air powered body saw from Harbor Freight. The tunnel is some pretty tough stuff. Buy plenty of blades. Also be careful not to slice the various tubes. That's the wrong place to shorten them! Wink


I like this overlap method - but to make it even stronger how about cutting a 3" hole in the outside tab and welding that all the way round. That way the tab is welded front and back.


This is how I did mine with only one exception. The two flaps went the opposite direction and contained the stock seat belt mounting holes. I holesawed two holes in the rear section for the seat belt nuts to go into and make the metal flush mounting.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my buggy already in buggy form. It needed floor pans, and I am debating which method to use to shorten the floor pans up. It appears it was originally built using the straight across method. Do you guys think if i use a different method on the new floor pans, it will give me trouble?
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is how "VW" would do it.
http://www.tjkustoms.com/pdf/1%20vw%20chassis%20shortning%20by%20VW%20PDF.pdf
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