Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Shortening a Pan
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Forum Index -> Kit Car/Fiberglass Buggy/356 Replica Share: Facebook Twitter
Reply to topic
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
Q-Dog
Samba Member


Joined: April 05, 2010
Posts: 6698
Location: Sunset, Louisiana
Q-Dog is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Nov 22, 2015 9:04 am    Post subject: Re: Shortening a Pan Reply with quote

A hydraulic failure will leave you with no brakes. If you think you might ever use the car on the street, you need a mechanical parking brake.
I had cracks around the e-brake handle when I bought my buggy. I welded them up and they cracked again, so, here is how I finally fixed mine. Turn Key Manx does something similar on every chassis they build.

First I made a template and bent up this.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Then welded and cleaned with a flap disk.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
Brian

'69 Dune Buggy
'69 Beetle Convertible
'70 Beetle
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
buellfuel
Samba Member


Joined: November 12, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Michigan
buellfuel is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 11:36 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a Pan Reply with quote

I am not really concerned about a parking brake, I only run it to and from the dunes, about a mile or so and then on the dunes. I am planning on a cutting brake and then I could run a single lever infront of the cutting brake cylinder to operate both back brakes.
I forgot to take my camera today. we have brackets tacked on the front to hang the king pin axle to the ball joint front end.
When I was looking for a pan to modify I would find a rusted out back or a good front or vice versa, this was the closest pan I could find in my area. Unfortunately it was hit in the front end on the right side. Getting everything right today was quite problematic trying to get things to fit.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
BIGMIKEY
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2007
Posts: 750
Location: NEPA
BIGMIKEY is online now 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:50 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a Pan Reply with quote

What will you do for a parking brake?

Mike T
_________________
BIGMIKEY

Deserter Series 1 project.
1973 Beetle Driver, Marina Blue.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
buellfuel
Samba Member


Joined: November 12, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Michigan
buellfuel is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 9:06 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a Pan Reply with quote

Thanks for the reply and the diagram!
One of the reasons I went without the E brake handle was because the old pan cracked right through the opening for the handle and just ahead of the weld in front of the splice, plus the seats are too large for the car and there is very little room between the seats for the handle.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Dale M.
Samba Member


Joined: April 12, 2006
Posts: 18342
Location: Just a tiny bit west of Yosemite Valley
Dale M. is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Nov 21, 2015 8:13 am    Post subject: Re: Shortening a Pan Reply with quote

Nice looking work but where is E-brake handle/assembly.... The reason you probably did not get any answers, is probably becasue you inquiry was written more as comments than questions.... Also attaching you questions to old threads sometimes they get ignored..... Because of all the old "stuff" that precedes your question(s)....

And by the way, this is where and how the traditional and considered "standard" way of where and how to shorten VW pan...

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Dale
_________________
Lives his life vicariously through his own self...
1970 "Kellison Sand Piper Roadster" For Street & Show.
============================================================
All suggestions and advice are purely my own opinion. You are free to ignore them if you wish ...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
buellfuel
Samba Member


Joined: November 12, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Michigan
buellfuel is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Nov 20, 2015 10:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a Pan Reply with quote

Well...No one answered! I took a drive and measured up my Sand Shark. I compared that to the new pan I bought and started marking it out. I have a friend that owns an automotive machine shop and builds some pretty incredible hot rods so I took it over to him tonight. The pan needed to be shortened 14 1/4 inches, just like most of the tub buggies. We shortened the portion of the tube where the square portion was removing the hand brake bracket area. We got it cut apart, saved the clutch and throttle cable housings and even the stock fuel lines. Then we removed the heater cable housings and parking brake housings and put it back together. It went together pretty good. Since it is a ball joint pan and I am running an aluminum king pin front end I bought some very nice king pin to ball joint adapter brackets that we will mount upside down so the axle will be mounted about an inch lower on the pan raising the front of the tub up slightly.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
buellfuel
Samba Member


Joined: November 12, 2015
Posts: 4
Location: Michigan
buellfuel is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Nov 12, 2015 6:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Shortening a Pan Reply with quote

My first post!
I was measuring up my old pan to cut a new tube down to size.
Two things.
1. on an interesting note the old pan had cracked on the top part of the tube through the hand brake cutout. I felt twisting when I was running the buggy up hills and such. I would just weld it up but the front axle is falling off and there is a ton of rust up front.
2. Those of you who have used a perimeter 1X2(or something similar) what kind of pointers can you give me. I was planning on cutting down the new tube and following the outline of the body starting at the rear axle and running the tubing to the front axle. I was also thinking about using a flat aluminum or similar material for the floor pan instead of cutting down a stock style pan.
Thanks!
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
EVfun
Samba Member


Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 3583
Location: Seattle
EVfun is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 08, 2013 6:18 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

My frame was shortened years ago and it was a strait cut with a 4 inch by 6 inch (roughly) doubler welded over seam on the bottom of the tunnel. I haven't had cracking except from the bottom of the floor pan lip to the doubler in the bottom (only part way but on both sides.) Those areas don't line up perfect and did crack. I rewelded the seams after dressing the edges to get clean steel.

I had some more significant cracking where a PO cut hole was cut in the top of the tunnel by the pedals. I cut the cracks open with a dremel and a drill and welded those up, then welded a patch from another tunnel to get rid of the hole. If you must have access holes in the tunnel I recommend making them with a hole saw -- smooth and round. A square hole directly in the top of the tunnel is clearly a bad idea.

Welding up the tunnel opens it up to rust near the seams. That factory finish is amazing, even a rusted out '59 parts car I bought (the kind of car where you can see 3 tires from the drivers seat and have rust holes in the rain gutters) didn't have any rust inside the tunnel. I vacuum up some rust from the inside of my buggy frame every 3 years or so and it is stored indoors.
_________________
Wildthings wrote:
As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
kustoms
Samba Member


Joined: November 20, 2003
Posts: 1371

kustoms is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 8:40 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here is how "VW" would do it.
http://www.tjkustoms.com/pdf/1%20vw%20chassis%20shortning%20by%20VW%20PDF.pdf
_________________
Google this.
"Bread and Circuses"

And wondering what the heck happen to my Samba post count?!?
Tom Thompson
Tijuana Kustoms Inc. (TM)
1-516-338-8746
www.tjkustoms.com
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Classifieds Feedback
oldschoolsdime92
Samba Member


Joined: November 09, 2010
Posts: 100
Location: dayton ohio
oldschoolsdime92 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Jan 16, 2011 6:42 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I got my buggy already in buggy form. It needed floor pans, and I am debating which method to use to shorten the floor pans up. It appears it was originally built using the straight across method. Do you guys think if i use a different method on the new floor pans, it will give me trouble?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
joescoolcustoms
Samba Member


Joined: August 08, 2006
Posts: 8838
Location: West By God Virginia
joescoolcustoms is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 5:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Neil Davies wrote:
Jimmler wrote:
The pan is not officially welded back together yet, so there's not much more to tell at this point. I have a broken clutch tube I'm repairing.

I probably will not brace over the weld with a section of removed tunnel. In this last picture you can see I left some "tabs" from the rear section. I think by bending those in and welding them to the sides of the tunnel, it will reinforce more than a strip across the top. The tunnel is stamped in that area that almost makes it look like those tabs are supposed to go there.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Most of the cutting was either by a sawzall or an air powered body saw from Harbor Freight. The tunnel is some pretty tough stuff. Buy plenty of blades. Also be careful not to slice the various tubes. That's the wrong place to shorten them! Wink


I like this overlap method - but to make it even stronger how about cutting a 3" hole in the outside tab and welding that all the way round. That way the tab is welded front and back.


This is how I did mine with only one exception. The two flaps went the opposite direction and contained the stock seat belt mounting holes. I holesawed two holes in the rear section for the seat belt nuts to go into and make the metal flush mounting.
_________________
UnKlear Racing TAT 2020
Bad News Racing 2018 NORRA 1000 3rd in class, 120/270 overall

Everyone is gifted. Some just do not open the package.

Looks like it was painted with a live chicken,polished with a brick and buffed with a pine cone
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Neil Davies
Samba Member


Joined: July 31, 2005
Posts: 381
Location: Kingswinford, West Midlands, UK
Neil Davies is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Sep 18, 2009 4:29 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Jimmler wrote:
The pan is not officially welded back together yet, so there's not much more to tell at this point. I have a broken clutch tube I'm repairing.

I probably will not brace over the weld with a section of removed tunnel. In this last picture you can see I left some "tabs" from the rear section. I think by bending those in and welding them to the sides of the tunnel, it will reinforce more than a strip across the top. The tunnel is stamped in that area that almost makes it look like those tabs are supposed to go there.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Most of the cutting was either by a sawzall or an air powered body saw from Harbor Freight. The tunnel is some pretty tough stuff. Buy plenty of blades. Also be careful not to slice the various tubes. That's the wrong place to shorten them! Wink


I like this overlap method - but to make it even stronger how about cutting a 3" hole in the outside tab and welding that all the way round. That way the tab is welded front and back.
_________________
'67/'68 Cal Look Beetle, 2007cc, 48IDFs, 14.4 @ 93mph, Oct 2017.
'68/'70 Karmann Beetle project, progressing slowly.
'86 Scirocco special project - still measuring up...
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
x2bj
Samba Member


Joined: November 04, 2008
Posts: 41
Location: crestwood
x2bj is offline 

PostPosted: Mon Apr 06, 2009 3:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

nice
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
MURZI
Samba Member


Joined: August 25, 2005
Posts: 4960
Location: Madisonville, La
MURZI is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 5:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

To ensure straightness I tack welded about a 8 foot pipe to the frame head channel and another one across the rear shock towers. By doing this you will greatly exaggerate the alignment angles and you will see any twist or turn from front to back or side to side.

Think about it.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

_________________
62 vert
2276
Timís welded heads
45 Dells
A1 sidewinder
Fk44 cam
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
mach4
Samba Member


Joined: February 26, 2006
Posts: 153
Location: San Diego
mach4 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 4:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you leave the front beam on, you can simply measure from the top of the shock tower on the rear diagonally to the top of the shock tower on the front. If you don't want to be wrestling with the weight of the beam, you can do something like attaching a piece of pipe or a piece of wood to the front frame head to give you a reference point. Measure your reference points BEFORE cutting so you know the geometry of the cut pan will match that of the original. The second axis you can simply sight along your front reference to the rear shock towers. The third axis isn't as critical but for what it's worth, I build a jig out of angle iron that the two pieces could slide on to maintain longitudinal integrity.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image courtesy of DSC
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
rustybutterknife
Samba Member


Joined: June 06, 2003
Posts: 487
Location: Georgetown, IN
rustybutterknife is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jan 18, 2008 1:42 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

just a quick question what do you guys measure off of to ensure that the frame gets welded square and doesn't look like it's going sideways down the road is there anything suitable to use as a reference spot measuring diagonally?
_________________
What, they don't sell purple locktite? Just mix the red and the blue together.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
JayinMI
Samba Member


Joined: July 18, 2007
Posts: 36
Location: Pontiac, MI
JayinMI is offline 

PostPosted: Wed Jul 18, 2007 2:15 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Here's how I did mine (based on Nicolas' style):

http://www.shoptalkforums.com/viewtopic.php?t=1026...highlight=

I still haven't figured out my floors the way I want yet...I wish someone would actually supply measurements with those drawings. I think I'm going to switch to some diamond plate and rectangle tubing and make my own.

Jay
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
manxdavid
Samba Member


Joined: November 24, 2003
Posts: 1806
Location: David Jones, Anglesey, North Wales, UK. Manxclub #678.
manxdavid is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 11:02 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hey Nicholas!!! Greetings from way back!!! Hows it going old friend???

Dave.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
benchracer1
Samba Member


Joined: September 24, 2006
Posts: 492
Location: ramona
benchracer1 is offline 

PostPosted: Sat Jun 23, 2007 10:34 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Where are the fuel lines located and how are they dealt with?
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
widefive63
Samba Member


Joined: April 22, 2007
Posts: 4
Location: France, 50 miles north of paris
widefive63 is offline 

PostPosted: Sun Apr 22, 2007 12:47 pm    Post subject: The Z cut: almost 10 year old now Reply with quote

Hi to all

Thanks to all for your feedback on the Z cut method I describe in my home page ďhttp://www.dunebuggynostalgia .comĒ( http://membres.lycos.fr/dbn/) .

This method came to my mind almost ten years ago when I started my Manx project. At that time, I had no internet access but the few straight or angled shortening work I had seen in mags or on the rotten buggy floorpan I was starting from, told me I had to find something else. As I live in France were buggies are not very common I had nobody to advise me. I worked first with the enlarged picture of the vw pan were I tried different cutting lines that were cut with scissors for test fit. When I had the right line I started the real job.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


As the floors of my frame were history I started by chiseling them away. The work became then very easy . I shortened the tunnel first and then I shortened each floor before welding them in place.

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I hadnít thought that the few snapshots taken then, later put online thru my small home page would almost ten years later inspire and help people building their buggy project. But thatís what internet is all about!

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


All that said my Manx is still not finished (donít laught) but little by little I have managed to find all the neccessary parts to achieve my target , a mid/ late 60ís looking Manx. My last find is a NOS ABS dash found in Texas last week. What is missing is a only time! I hope someday I will find time to update my homepage to show the progress.

Best regards from France.

Nicolas
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
Reply to topic    Forum Index -> Kit Car/Fiberglass Buggy/356 Replica All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: 1, 2, 3  Next
Page 1 of 3

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2018, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB