Torque engine build

[BirdLives]

I'm posting this here because you guys seem to know torque better than anyone. I do not want to race, my wife says I drive like an old man. What I do want, is to rocket up these STEEP hills around here, instead of having to go 30mph in 2nd gear when the speed limit is 45. This will be my first engine build, going in my 67 ghia. Any advice is greatly apprecieted.

Here's the plan:

85.5 "A" p&c, 76mm crank (probably from DPR), stock cam

Single port heads, Dual Kadrons and SVDA (probably from AJ Simms)

VW mexico "collector type" exhaust w/J-tubes (I know, $40 at swap meet, what can I say?)

Am I on the right track? Specifically, should I consider an aftermarket cam? Would the heads benefit from "porting" by AJ or someone else?

Thanks, Ryan

[keifernet]

I think you may have meant to post this in the performance /engines forum...

I can move it if you did.

[BirdLives]

The reason I posted here is: in all my searches, I have found the type 2 advice to be much more useful than the type 1 for what I'm trying to do. I was worried if I posted there I would get answers like "that's a bus engine, you want 44 IDFs & a 120 cam", etc. etc.

[keifernet]

[BirdLives]

I've been searching the forums and contemplating this engine for almost a year, "long time listener, first time caller" right? I have found some great stuff in the performance forum, but more low-end torque related info here.

My goal is to get feedback from you bus guys who know how to build torque rather than horsepower. I even thought about pretending to have a bus! Sorry for breaking the rules , just want a specific audience.

[stevemariott]

[incynr8]

I think you should consider a webcam or engle 100 over a stock cam with that engine combo. The header exhuast may overscavange the stock cam's profile leaving you short, the 100s and webcams are not severe, and retain good torque.

THE SP idea is excellent, and dual kadrons or solexes should do to feed that displacement. I would also avoid lightened flywheels to keep the weight of the rotating mass a bit more stock as well, but that is likely optional on a ghia.
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[BirdLives]

Thanks guys, I knew you were out there .

Is the idea with the engle 100 to help the top end without hurting the low end? I've also heard of split-duration cams that increase the lift on the intake only, like a web 218?

I'm reading that thread on the shoptalkforum - thanks Steve - I don't venture beyond the samba much.

[incynr8]

Jake raby used to offer an 1800 SP T1 with enlarged valves, mild cam (webcam 218 I think...) and dual carbs with header exhuast for a torque monster bus motor.


The stock cam is likely a mistake with an enlarged piston size, exhuast, AND dual carbs, in my opinion. It would give you good down low torque, but fall short as the engine move up to it's power ranges. Stock cams seem to fall on their face around 2500 rpm, and it's all lost torque after that, hence slow and low up hills.

however you sure dont want something ridiculous., no Z35 for you. Your light car is an advantage, and is more tolerant of more severe cams, to a point. I think if you stay sensible with camming you can leave the valve sizes alone, up to around 1776-1800.
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Do it right, or don't bother.

[VWBusrepairman]

I'd go all stock on the internals...cam, crank, etc. and the idea of using 85.5mm piston, cylinders is a good idea. I like the vacuum advance dist. and the dual carb idea as well. Consider an electronic ignition and you should have a good setup for plenty of torque and reliability. I've always liked the single port engine better... good choice.

[BirdLives]

Is there any point in having the single port heads "ported"? I know they produce higher fuel mixture velocity already, would it just be a waste of money?

Also, I have a dual-relief "H" case that I am hoping to re-use if it looks OK after tear down. Will I run into problems there, seems like most people are using the later cases.

[incynr8]

Get your H case deepstudded then, as long as it specs and is super clean it should be ok, since it is dual relief already. New cases are nice becuase you can use the Type3 oil filler block off plate to hold a Berg temp sender, and they are deep studded.

As for the heads, I would make certain they are CCed to match and built well, match porting increases flow and efficency to a point, there are a few schools about it. Mostly a race thing, but not necessarily so. The CCing and blueprinting of measurements, along with balancing is the highest concern.
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Do it right, or don't bother.

[BirdLives]

This is great info...

I will be using a cw crank and have the rotating assembly balanced and the heads cc'd.

I'm planning on using 1.1:1 rockers, about .040 deck height and 8:1 compression.

Would I be better of with 1.25:1 rockers, or use 1.25:1 on the intakes and 1.1:1 on the exhaust? Would that have a similar effect to using a split-duation cam or is that crazy/impossible.

[incynr8]

You just went beyond me, I have complete ignorance on mixed ratio rockers, and the concepts of 'ideal lift' for that matter, other to know geometry is super important for head longevity.

Camming is really tough beyond the most simple concepts we have (shorter lift and moderate durations aka 'towing'/torque cams over mega lift 4500rpm race stuff), I would seek an expert with plenty of dyno time behind them for more reccomendations for a nicely balanced combo.

I like lower compression, like dish pistons low.
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Do it right, or don't bother.

[BirdLives]

The cam choice is really scary, so vital and so hard to change once it's in.

So you think I should shoot for more like 7.5:1 compression?

With the 76mm crank I'm going to have to use thick shims to get close to a .040 deck height. I was planning to talk to AJ about increasing the head cc's, dished pistons would make it easier - I haven't done much research but they seem kind of controversial. So you think I should shoot for more like 7.5:1 compression?

[stevemariott]

Call AJ and tell him what you're shooting for, and he'll give you his recommendations for cam, C/R, deck height, port work, etc. Your compression is going to be more dependent on what cam you use. Don't be afraid to post in the performance forum either, you'll probably get more response there.
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1963 Manx copy
1968 Bus

[BirdLives]

Thanks for the help everybody. I'm a real "detail" guy in general, but this engine designing stuff is SO complicated. So many variables and different opinions, I don't know how you guys did this before the internet.