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Topside oil filter
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Mon Dec 30, 2019 10:44 pm    Post subject: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

I did a bit of searching in the gallery and forums, and did not find any info about this filter system. So I figured I would make a thread about it.

I recall seeing these advertised, probably in the VW mags, back in the 90's. I think maybe Hot VW's may have done a tech article about them. I recall it being called the Topside Oil Filter, and they were marketed to owners of early bay buses as a spin-on and bolt-on filter for your hard working engine.

This one seems to have been made by "The Factory", so maybe my memories of them being called "topside" are too fuzzy.

Does anyone out there have more info about them to share? I plan to run this one on a gently used stock single port in my 68 single cab.

As you can see, the base takes the place of the oil cooler adapter thingy on top of the engine block, and a small section of the fan shroud needs to be cut away to make it work. I don't recall if the coil needs to be relocated or not.

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DrKamikazi
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:38 am    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

We just removed one of these from our bus to put the stock doghouse mount back on. It was installed with a cheap chrome aftermarket fan shroud and the cut to fit the filter left a lot to be desired. The way ours was cut and fitted it definitely lost a lot of cooling air around there, and that's right at the number three cylinder and head. I would fashion some kind of seal and cut as little tin as possible if I were going to out it back on.

Also ours was that exact model and was leaking all around the base, but we didn't install it so that could be PO error. Just something to keep an eye out for.

Our coil is mounted on the case by the distributor, and there's no mounts on the chrome shroud to reference but I would think it would be in the way. Someone correct me if this is wrong.
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:48 am    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

The shroud in the photos is already trimmed, and looks to have been done cleanly. No way to really tell until I have it all mounted up, but if it needs to be sealed better, I'll figure something out.

Remote mount for the coil won't be a problem, but looking at it with a stock shroud I am betting it will fit.

If yours was leaking badly, the seals were probably either shot, or pinched on assembly. I have done that with a stock oil cooler install. It sucks to have to tear things down again, after all that work. At least everything is nice and clean the second time.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:11 am    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

that looks like the worlds biggest mess to change the filter. interesting concept.

if I were to entertain that setup I would run a SPA and run hoses off to the side setting the filter vertical (I suppose horizontal would work too) so I could put a sawed off jug under it
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:30 am    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

skills@eurocarsplus wrote:
that looks like the worlds biggest mess to change the filter. interesting concept.

if I were to entertain that setup I would run a SPA and run hoses off to the side setting the filter vertical (I suppose horizontal would work too) so I could put a sawed off jug under it


If you let it sit/drain for 10-15 minutes before pulling it off, and stuff a rag under the bottom side, I am guessing it won't be too messy. We shall see.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:56 am    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

Neat idea, but its location in the oil flow would mean you only had filtering once the engine had warmed enough to start cooling the oil, though any filtration would be better than no filtration. The placement would also raise the temperature of the oil a bit by lessening the flow through the cooler during the transition period and then keeping the relief valve open longer.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

That’s a huge amount of crap and failure points to double the 2.5 liters of oil change from 3000 to 5000 miles, isn’t it?

The filter will cost as much as the oil saved !

Laughing
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 1:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

Abscate wrote:
That’s a huge amount of crap and failure points to double the 2.5 liters of oil change from 3000 to 5000 miles, isn’t it?

The filter will cost as much as the oil saved !

Laughing
It is only adding the failure point of the gasket for the filter and the filter itself, the rest is the same as an offset cooler adapter. That part of this filter mount is okay.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 2:31 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

great idea for someone in a really dusty environment. The stock dog house setup on my 1971 bus never had any wear issues from dirt. The crank never had to be turned. Oil was changed every 3,500 miles. Like Skills I see a an oil mess coming. Remember that oil is flammable if it gets hot enough like dripping onto the exhaust in mass. Seen it in racing enough times - oil on the headers and flames galore.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 3:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

Wildthings wrote:
Abscate wrote:
That’s a huge amount of crap and failure points to double the 2.5 liters of oil change from 3000 to 5000 miles, isn’t it?

The filter will cost as much as the oil saved !

Laughing
It is only adding the failure point of the gasket for the filter and the filter itself, the rest is the same as an offset cooler adapter. That part of this filter mount is okay.


Yep, it really is no different (seal/leak issues) than the stock cooler adapter other than the filter O-ring itself.

Wildthings, I guess there should not be much concern about only filtering warm oil once the engine comes up to temp. Don't high performance filters for big engines do the same thing internally? Like an HP-1 and the like?

Does anyone here recall seeing these advertised back in the day? I would love to see a print ad or some literature about them.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:


Wildthings, I guess there should not be much concern about only filtering warm oil once the engine comes up to temp. Don't high performance filters for big engines do the same thing internally? Like an HP-1 and the like?

Does anyone here recall seeing these advertised back in the day? I would love to see a print ad or some literature about them.


I would only be concerned about what it might do to the oil temps, maybe nothing of note. No way to know for sure without trying it.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:18 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
Does anyone here recall seeing these advertised back in the day? I would love to see a print ad or some literature about them.

I do, it was sometime around 1998-2001, I'll see if I can find some of those old Mag's. I recall looking at that at the time and thinking it wasn't a bad idea, but not quite worth the $80 - $100 they wanted for it.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

This will be a stock engine, and I am not a guy to run temp gauges on stock stuff, but I do have a Berg temp sensing dipstick on the shelf. That would give a basic idea I suppose.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 4:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
This will be a stock engine, and I am not a guy to run temp gauges on stock stuff, but I do have a Berg temp sensing dipstick on the shelf. That would give a basic idea I suppose.


I would think that would give you sufficient info, I doubt that we are talking a 20°F rise in temps, probably 5°F or so. but one ever knows until they give it a shot.

I don't think you would have to be very inventive to figure out how to do a "clean" filter change. Maybe cut up a gallon oil or antifreeze jug and fit if up below the filter somehow to make a catch basin.
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cdennisg
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 7:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

Not that this engine is going together any time real soon, but I just remembered as I made a mental list of needed things to make it happen, I do not have the correct oil cooler seals for this job. I have used up my stock over the last few years on my projects, and those of others.

That said, can anyone recommend who might have good seals these days? With so much crap out there, I figured it was worth asking.

By the way, it is a late model case with large holes (10mm right?), just like the filter adapter thing and the cooler I will use.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:29 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

I’ve had a similar piece on my engine for almost 20 years. Seems to do a fair job, and my oil didn’t seem to run any hotter with it than it did without it. The oil mess is negligible as long as you put a bunch of rags underneath it to catch the drips. The one that’s on there now has been there for a couple of oil changes. That’s the main problem, sometime it can be a serious bitch to twist the filter off by hand. And it’s not easy to fit a filter wrench in there.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 9:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

tolstoy wrote:
I’ve had a similar piece on my engine for almost 20 years. Seems to do a fair job, and my oil didn’t seem to run any hotter with it than it did without it. The oil mess is negligible as long as you put a bunch of rags underneath it to catch the drips. The one that’s on there now has been there for a couple of oil changes. That’s the main problem, sometime it can be a serious bitch to twist the filter off by hand. And it’s not easy to fit a filter wrench in there.

Tolstoy


Looks like an endcap style oil filter wrench would work quite well at getting at the filter to remove it. I think if you plugged up the small end of an automatic transmission funnel and if necessary adapted the large end to fit close to the filter you could probably catch almost every last drop of oil when you change the filter.

This likely not the size filter wrench you need, but the same basic design.

https://www.walmart.com/ip/Oil-Filter-Wrench-End-C...01EALw_wcB
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

I own like three of the sliding ratchet style of filter wrench. I always forget the end cap style exists. I just need to remember to by one when I’m in a place that sells them.

Good call on the funnel.

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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 10:15 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

This is good feedback. Nice to see it tucked back in there doing its job.

And definitely get the end cap style of filter wrench. I have one for my wife's Toyota brand driving appliance and it makes filter changes much easier.
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PostPosted: Tue Dec 31, 2019 11:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Topside oil filter Reply with quote

cdennisg wrote:
. I have one for my wife's Toyota brand driving appliance and it makes filter changes much easier.

Sounds similar to my daughter's Corolla, there's no way your wrist can bend naturally to get any sort of torque on it, it's not buried in there, just too much other sh*t in the way to get a grip Twisted Evil
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