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cwo4smith
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003
Posts: 50
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 Posted: Wed Nov 09, 2005 10:09 pm Post subject: Steel Sunroof Installed (67 Bug) |
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After about two weeks, a couple of hours per evening, of fitting, eye-balling, stepping back, and looking at every doc I could put my hands on (Bentley 66-69 Beetle, Bentley 1300-1500, Bentley Type 3, Hot VWs Tech Edition, and every single "sunroof" post on Samba), I've got my sunroof in, sealed, working, and didn't scratch the paint... a couple of thoughts/observations on the adventure before I forget:
1. Original parts work best - I dunno why - I bought a nice set of sunroof parts from good vendor and, except for the center cover, all parts are original (used) VW.
2. Left is Left and Right is Right - the cable, the side runner, the corner tubes, the corner covers - it's easy to mix up the corner tubes (where cables run thru), you'll know you've got them on the correct corner if they lay flat and fit into the side runner and center housing.
3. The little ramps to the outside of the side runner and under the sliding roof get the back of the panel moving up, but the forward tension of the cable (as you're turning the crank) pulls the flippers up; the leaf spring is what puts tension on the flipper - going up (forward) and going down (back).
4. As noted in other discussions, a nice handful of lubricant (I used Mobile Synthetic) drawn down the cable to coat the cable, but do not completely load it up - a modest coating is fine.
5. When fitting the cable into the corner tubes and side runner - make sure the flipper's track/runner is on the top rail/slot - the bottom rail/slot is for the interior trim panel. I saw that the flipper track/runner had a plastic slide inserted - it did not seem to me that this was a fitting that required lubrication, so I wiped dry all lubrication on the runner and the track/runner slides over the runner fine.
6. A word on sunroof cables - I picked up a pair of after market (brand new) cables - my friend Dave, who helped me put the car together, spent about six hours trying to make those cables work - I wasn't there to watch, but given how hammered those cables were when I pulled them out, I would have to agree with him. So, on that account, I waited for (and went after) used cables listed on Samba. There is a relatively constant distance between the flipper and where the cable engages the gear at full shut; if you fit the cable into the sunroof, thru the tracks, etc... you'll find that point more or less on the cable - if the cable is going to be shot - it's going to be shot at that point - meaning the coils are too hammered to provide grip to the gear and the gear will ratchet - that's exactly what happened with the cables that came with the car. The Samba cables looked alot better at that point of intersection and, as a result, when I got everything fit up and aligned (per Bentley) I cranked the sunroof closed and the flippers came up smoothly without a hint of ratchet. I don't expect the "new" cables will last forever, so I'm going to get a couple of sets of currently available cables and I'll figure out how to get them to work when the time comes.
7. A word on roof adjustment - chances are, the front adjusters (whether screw wheel or phillips screw) have not been touched since new, but - given the play that comes in after 30+ years of the rear adjusters will probably need to be touched - this was what happened in my case. Once you see the flipper adjusters on the cable, the Bentley instructions will make perfect sense.
8. Felt seal - of all the aspects of the install - this was the most challenging - and, if I can muster up the courage - something I might redo... 1) the advice to put glue (3M -yellow- weather seal adhesive) on both the roof edge and seal, let them dry, and then put it on is exactly correct; 2) I really think, due to 1, this is a 2-person job that should be well-rehearsed before attempted - but once started - work smoothly and patiently. 3) the longer "front" seal that runs from side to front to side - should probably be notched on the lengths that go down each side of the sunroof opening (not the front) - the seal is effectively "straight" but the roof line in that direction is curved - I didn't do it - it looks "OK" - but that's an adjustment you might want to consider.
So - that's the story - I still have to put the interior panel in (when I get it back from the upholstry guy) - but have patience, walk away at the first sign of frustration, and give full thought to the task at hand - it'll come out fine. |
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Miguel Arroyo
Samba Member
Joined: April 02, 2004
Posts: 3122
Location: Miami Beach, Florida
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Excellent, how about posting some pics when you get it finished. And congratulations. |
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krlang
Samba Member
Joined: October 16, 2004
Posts: 228
Location: Commonwealth of Massachusetts
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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Great stuff,
I ran into a problem with the new cables I bought.
The ends were too big to go through my cable tubes.
I returned them and still have not finished the roof.
It slides back and forth by hand right now, cables later.
1300L as 3M calls it. Is supposed to be installed on each piece, let dry to a tack and then reactivated to install. It works great for Wing De-Ice Boots along with VW sunroof seals.
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67 Type I in Harley turquoise(1914CC)
"Then I landed on the water, Just about my favorite thrill....." -JB |
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sixfootdan
Samba Smartass
Joined: February 13, 2002
Posts: 4848
Location: \Lo*ca"tion\, n. 1. The act or process of locating.
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 5:01 pm Post subject: |
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I feel like venting, I have had all types of VW over the last 16 yrs and the '67 I have now is the first one with a steel sunroof. I got it closed and flush and I won't open it any more. Also, I'll never buy one with a steel sunroof again. Thanks 
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crazyeyes
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Thu Nov 10, 2005 7:57 pm Post subject: |
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| MEANIRISHMOFO wrote: |
| I feel like venting, I have had all types of VW over the last 16 yrs and the '67 I have now is the first one with a steel sunroof. I got it closed and flush and I won't open it any more. Also, I'll never buy one with a steel sunroof again. Thanks |
No shit. I feel the same way. But i cant get that son of a B!tch to close. I just want it to shut ant be done with it. I tried taking the cable guides out but i must be missing a screw or something. so now that its been mastered throw some help this way. Thank goodness I live in a place were it never rains. but i cant stand that anoying little rattle above my head. 
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cwo4smith
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 12:45 am Post subject: reply to krlang & crazyeyes |
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krlang - that bit about getting the cable end to run thru the tubes was exactly the problem my buddy Dave reported... he ended up grinding that end to about half original length - that got the end thru the tubes, but by then the coils were pretty well hammered out.
crazyeyes - the way the cable flipper works (as observed) is that the side ramps start the back of the roof up, the flippers start to straighten, and then the pull of the cable pulls the bottom of the flipper mechanism forward under the top of the flipper (attached to the sliding roof) straightening the flipper (perpendicular to the cable) and pushing the back end of the roof into position. As noted by others, the flippers have to start up at the same time on both sides to keep the process from binding, so that means you have to fiddle with the cables to get both flippers the same distance from the crank gear. Apart from that, if the cable coils are worn and the gear ratchets, there's no way the cable is going to pull the flippers forward to push up the back of the sliding panel. Some posts have suggested putting some very thin shim material between the cable and the bottom housing - to push the cables into the gear - apart from the adjustment hassle, the shim strategy might be worth a try. |
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TexasAirCooler
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 933
Location: Lone Oak, TX
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| Posted: Fri Nov 11, 2005 8:45 pm Post subject: |
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I've got a metal sunroof bug, I have bought that parts to make it work. Just waiting to finish other work to car before I try to put it in. Problem for me is the car must be painted before I do much with it. This is my first sunroof car. How hard is it to take this mess back apart once it is together. I want to make sure I can make it work before paint so if it's hopeless I can just install a glass pop up sunroof. Paint and go.
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Terry
Common Sense Is A Flower That Doesn't Grow In Everyone's Garden. |
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crazyeyes
Samba Member
Joined: August 22, 2005
Posts: 33
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| BeetleWarrior wrote: |
| I can just install a glass pop up sunroof. Paint and go. |
how much are those? that sounds like it would be easier. I like things to be easy. Oh wait, I forgot , i have a V-Dub. Nevermind.
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TexasAirCooler
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 933
Location: Lone Oak, TX
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:20 am Post subject: |
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I use to see them in Pep Boys auto parts stores in the truck section. I haven't been in one for some time. Not close to where I live now. They were right around "C" note then, about 5 years ago. Goodness knows what they are now. I know J.C.W. has a 18" x 28". But if I remember right the hole on my car is 20" x something.
http://www.jcwhitney.com/autoparts/Browse/tf-Brows...ID-2016272
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Terry
Common Sense Is A Flower That Doesn't Grow In Everyone's Garden. |
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Alan Willis
Banned
Joined: November 22, 2004
Posts: 4181
Location: booted from the SEWR and stalked in here
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:22 am Post subject: |
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Yes! Lets ditch the german engineered steel sliding sunroof for a JCW glass replacement!Seriously bro put the tools down,you arent worthy!   |
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sixfootdan
Samba Smartass
Joined: February 13, 2002
Posts: 4848
Location: \Lo*ca"tion\, n. 1. The act or process of locating.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:42 am Post subject: |
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Most of those aftermarket sunroofs are flat or have a slight curve that does not match the Bug's roof and make them look stupid once installed.
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Alan Willis
Banned
Joined: November 22, 2004
Posts: 4181
Location: booted from the SEWR and stalked in here
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 10:50 am Post subject: |
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| Whats wrong with the sunroof in your '67 meany? |
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sixfootdan
Samba Smartass
Joined: February 13, 2002
Posts: 4848
Location: \Lo*ca"tion\, n. 1. The act or process of locating.
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:07 am Post subject: |
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| Alan Willis wrote: |
| Whats wrong with the sunroof in your '67 meany? |
It's not a hardtop
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Alan Willis
Banned
Joined: November 22, 2004
Posts: 4181
Location: booted from the SEWR and stalked in here
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 11:33 am Post subject: |
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| Oh,ok.I can't drive hardtops;I'm clostrophobic! |
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TexasAirCooler
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 933
Location: Lone Oak, TX
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| Posted: Sat Nov 12, 2005 9:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Alan Willis wrote: |
| Yes! Lets ditch the german engineered steel sliding sunroof for a JCW glass replacement!Seriously bro put the tools down,you arent worthy! |
Didn't say I was going to get one. Rather make the factory one work if I can. I'm not so much worried about leaking because I can keep it under cover or in shop if I have to.
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Terry
Common Sense Is A Flower That Doesn't Grow In Everyone's Garden. |
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cwo4smith
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003
Posts: 50
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| Posted: Mon Nov 14, 2005 8:13 pm Post subject: Reply to Beetle Warrior |
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| BeetleWarrior wrote: |
| I've got a metal sunroof bug, I have bought that parts to make it work. Just waiting to finish other work to car before I try to put it in. Problem for me is the car must be painted before I do much with it. This is my first sunroof car. How hard is it to take this mess back apart once it is together. I want to make sure I can make it work before paint so if it's hopeless I can just install a glass pop up sunroof. Paint and go. |
Warrior - the sunroof assembly and roof panel was completely removed from the my car before prep and paint - the roof panel was prepped and painted at the same time.... the rest of the car was fully assembled before we tackled the sunroof - so we did not pre-install the sunroof before paint, but that might have been a better strategy.
It's not hard to take apart (or reassemble) - 1) detach and slide back interior trim panel, 2) remove cables from back of panel/slides-adjusters from front of sunroof panel, 3) carefully pull out the sunroof panel (lift up the front, and ease forward and out - this may be easier with two people), 4) unscrew all the metal screws holding down covers, guides, and runners - bag/keep safe, 5) lift/remove the center cover and metal cover (or clip if early car) - bag/keep safe, 6) lay a pretty heavy blanket across the front of the sunroof opening - lay into jambs and close doors to hold it in place, 7) with two folks, lift the cable assembly up and forward, taking the trim panel with you, and pull easy to make sure you bring along the plastic clips at the back of the aluminum runners, and 8) remove the felt seal.
From that point, you can easily disassemble and clean the components (cable tubes, runners, cables, etc), figure out what you may need to replace, etc. Installation is the reverse of that process (except I put the felt seal in last on install) - Bentley covers all of this - once you eyeball the components, the Bentley pics show make alot more sense. |
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TexasAirCooler
Samba Member
Joined: October 31, 2005
Posts: 933
Location: Lone Oak, TX
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| Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2005 4:44 am Post subject: |
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Okay, thanks
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Terry
Common Sense Is A Flower That Doesn't Grow In Everyone's Garden. |
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cwo4smith
Samba Member
Joined: July 02, 2003
Posts: 50
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bill may
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2003
Posts: 14160
Location: san diego,ca
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sixfootdan
Samba Smartass
Joined: February 13, 2002
Posts: 4848
Location: \Lo*ca"tion\, n. 1. The act or process of locating.
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2005 7:33 pm Post subject: |
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Does this metal tab that runs under the lift mechanism look right to anyone?
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