Lead Metal work. Anyone in the NE?

[Airsick]

I want to use lead instead of bondo on my split and was wondering if anyone up near or in New England could PM me so I could ask some questions. Anyone doen this lately? Can you still get the material easily?

[johnshenry]

You can still get leading supplies at places like Eastwood, but most places don't do this. Good panel work and it is not needed. A good bodyman will use body filler often, but rarely more than 1/32" thick.

Leading is often done for custom rooflines and cowls on custom bodies and "fabbed from scratch" panels. And even so, a REAL good panel maker can make anything with a planishing hammer and english wheel to the point that lead is not needed....
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[RareAir]

Evercoats Metal-2-Metal body filler is the 21st Century answer to lead.

[Airsick]

Evercoats Metal-2-Metal
Will this give a metal like finish?

[johnshenry]

No it doesn't. It is basically body filler with particulate aluminum alloy added to it. And it doesn't feather down (get sanded down to tissue paper thickness) as well as "regular" thickness. I use Evercoat's "Rage" filler, it does.

Again, bodywork, properly done, should not require filler of greater thickness than 1/16', nominally 1/32".
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[Airsick]

I'm going to be going bare metal and at that stage I want a perfect raw metal look. I will be shooting paint later. I need to fill some holes.or low spots below double skinned areas. I need a product I can sand or file and you won't see the difference between that and the sheetmetal.

[johnshenry]

Don't know of anything that will fit that bill, and if you use filler to fill "holes" you are gauranteed to get bubbling under the (eventual) paint. Holes should be filled wil metal patches or small holes can be filled with a MIG attached to a skilled hand......
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab

[steven wood]

Do you want to be able to strip the paint off this entire car then clear it? Drive it as Bare Metal? then the only thing you can go with is lead. You will still see the lead.

[Airsick]

Yeah, I know John. I will weld first but there may be low spots from heat distortion, but Steven is on the right track.

[steven wood]

I was going to do that too! but changed my mind. Theres a picture of a split done like that on the forum somewhere. I had it on my screen saver for a long time. Do you plan on clearing it so it stays shiny or let it go so it looks like a rusty rat rod?

[Airsick]

It will be shiny until I finish all the bodywork than it will get color. I saw that split. It had ghost flames though.

[steven wood]

That wasn't the same car. This car was located overseas. That car with the ghost flames I believe is in Florida and is a '47

[crotchsplit]

yeah, that '47 split in bare metal with flames belongs to Kip in Sarasota, Florida. it is one solid car too, no rust! speaking of which, his big pre-Bug Jam party is tonight, there will be probably 200 cars there with about 10 splits. bonfire, beer, live band, cool vw's, great party.

[nlorntson]

Lead offers better long term adhesion to the steel. Even properly applied, plastic on metal allows moisture to form in between.

IF you can find someone who knows how to do leading, let them do the work.

Just say no to plastic!

[Hebster52]

[steven wood]

I completely disagree. It would be nice to use lead, but bondo is ok too. You have to prep your metal, work it, shrink it, high spot and low spots....whatever. You just can't cave it and pave it. If you apply bondo to "hot" then you will make condensation between the cold metal and hot bondo. I know a few OG body guys that have done both and believe me, there body work don't show after a few years even if they use bondo.

[Brezelwerks]

Ok folks, Brezelwerks best kept secret #38 here....

The debate over plastic vs lead vs metal impregnated fillers has been over awhile now. Alot of the best shops have put both their TIG and MIG welders out to pasture with Steelaloy or Alumaloy (www.alumaloy.com, and don't forget to watch the video demos there to believe it). Much wider range of applications than anything at 5x the ease of any welding since you can apply it with a propane torch. Both alloys melt at about 50% the melt temp of the base metal (steel or aluminum), and either alloy bonds to the base metal stronger than a welded joint.

Now, if your're going with a brushed metal look clear coated keep in mind that either alloy will likely be a shade or two different than the basemetal, but a hell of alot closer than lead would look, or any other filler, so in this case seems like the best solution.

Now, while its a great solution, you still have to grind it, block sand, etc to get the features you want, and each works almost identical to the base metal (which lead and steel WON'T do which is why that is a lost art today). So you still need the right hands to do the finish work, that will never change, but for doing state of the art fine joining or filler work this is it.

Purist welders of course love to speak out against the stuff (as you would suspect their jobs are in jeopardy), and some other purists absolutely want a steel to steel (MIG or TIG) fix (but even then steel MIG wire isn't the same steel as the stamped steel either). So, its a question today of where you want to draw the line, and nomatter what you do, you will never have a factory original fix, so from there you decide.

Technology is changing everthing today, in fact new body panels on collision work are hung with adhesive now, and even adhesives now are stronger than welds. In fact Volvo and Saab won't allow fixes with adhesives since the bond is so strong it disturbs the car's builit in crumple zone mechanics, so with these cars and a few others, having to use weaker steel welds are required to make joints collapse as designed, so the definition of "welding" is fast changing.

Good luck and have fun.
Gary

[johnshenry]

[Hebster52]

Yes, off course there are exceptions too, but if one does it your self and dont't know what you do there may/will appear spots... Especially if you apply too thick layers at once..

JH, your car is stunninglooking!
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~Kris~
The Hebster52
The 912ST
The KidVRod project
The 356 Pre-A replica,SOLD
The 1966 Kommanderwagen, SOLD
The Doppel -67, SOLD
The Singlecab -72, SOLD

[johnshenry]

Thank you Hebster. That Diamond Green color is very nice on a bright sunny day. It was painted by a friend of mine in 1999 who owns a body shop and has been doing body work for 17 years (he is the one in the pic). He really knows what he is doing. And aside froma few chips, that paint (Spies Hecker Urethane 2 stage) has held up amazingly well.
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John Henry

'57 Deluxe
'56 Single Cab