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Changing Winston's Gearbox/Transaxle Oil
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nice post...and nice work.

Happy Tranny!
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randywebb
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 3:50 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dhaavers wrote:
Before the blaster, hit the plugs with a shot of brake cleaner.
You want to make sure all the gunk is out of the hole for your wrench;
plus the PB Blaster won't have to work it's way through all that extra crud.

PB Blaster is like the old joke about voting: "Do it early and often".
I usually spray the offending fastener several times, starting about
a week before any major wrenching like this. Couldn't hurt...


PS - That BTDT link was my bible for my first time at this. Good stuff!


Good Advice. I'd use a bristle brush and/or some engine degunking spray if it is really nasty.

Also, yo want to tap the fastener (plug) with a metal hammer each time you spray the pentrating oil.

BTW, WD-40 is not an effective penetrant - use Kroil, PB BLaster, or one of the other dozens of penetrating oils designed to loosen bolts.
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Bruce Wayne
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 4:29 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Nuthin2It wrote:


The Bentley Manual says the fluid capacity for a 1985 model 4-speed manual transmission is 3.2 qt. This is less than the original capacity specified for the transaxle. The reason given for this is to reduce shifting effort (the decreased volume is somewhat controversial) . The fill hole was not moved when this change was made, however, so the new specification volume is actually 9/16 below the fill hole. To measure this level, I used a tip from the late Capt. Mike Soehnlein at Westfalia.org. I cut about 4 1/2 off a coat hanger wire and bent it at a 90 degree angle so one end is about 1 long. Then I measured this end 9/16 from the right angle and cut a notch with a file. To finish it off I bent a loop at the other end for a handle. To measure the level I put the end of the tool into the fill hole and hold it level. The fluid clings to the wire to show the level.

I tried to carefully measure the fluid I added to the transaxle. After adding 3.2 qts., I used the measuring tool; the fluid was barely on the end. I kept on adding fluid until the level was exactly 9/16 below the fill hole. It took 3.9 qts. I don't know why I had to add more than the spec, but since the only reason for adding less than originally specified by VW is to reduce shifting effort, I 'd rather have more than less in the transaxle.


my brand new German Transaxle tranny took 3.9 as well.
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tclark
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:12 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

And after u spend all that effort getting the fill/drain plug out use some nickle based anti-seize on those fill/drain threads then next time (24 mths) u r good to go
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Sat Aug 24, 2013 9:13 pm    Post subject: Swepco 210 Reply with quote

I need to find a source for Swepco 210 in the Denver area and put 3.9 quarts of that into Winston. I could have used the funnel gadget (clever!) when I put a container of BG MGC into the dino-oil Larry Blazer & Co. put into Winston's rebuilt transmission after the 3/4 Slider Syncro Hub went. I can't say that things drastically improved, in fact, I've found the transmission just a tad more 'grabby' and at times harder to shift... But it does shift and run pretty well. I could perhaps put in another tube of the stuff, I may not have put in ENOUGH of it...

Anyway, I have the recommendation for Swepco 210 from none other than AA Transaxle's Daryl. I may have to get the stuff shipped in. Tempting to have someone put him up and just suck out the dino oil, I had... a lot of fun... doing what started this thread. But the funnel gadget is a clever one, I had a funnel on a hose, it popped out almost instantly and... You know the rest of the story.

Best!
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 6:22 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

The best price I found online for Swepco 201 was at Paragon Products:

http://www.paragon-products.com/SearchResults.asp?Search=swepco&Search.x=11&Search.y=5
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Ahwahnee
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:32 am    Post subject: Re: Swepco 210 Reply with quote

msinabottle wrote:
... I had a funnel on a hose, it popped out almost instantly and... You know the rest of the story...


I have used the gear oil IV and find it works well, but lately have used this as I had a vehicle diff that could only be accessed from below:

http://www.harborfreight.com/oil-suction-gun-95468.html

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't use it for suction (a long slow drain is so much more complete) but do use it to load & pump. Holds a bit more that a pint so 6+ cycles would be needed.
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Wildthings
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PostPosted: Sun Aug 25, 2013 8:56 am    Post subject: Re: Swepco 210 Reply with quote

Ahwahnee wrote:
msinabottle wrote:
... I had a funnel on a hose, it popped out almost instantly and... You know the rest of the story...


I have used the gear oil IV and find it works well, but lately have used this as I had a vehicle diff that could only be accessed from below:

http://www.harborfreight.com/oil-suction-gun-95468.html

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


I don't use it for suction (a long slow drain is so much more complete) but do use it to load & pump. Holds a bit more that a pint so 6+ cycles would be needed.


Yeap, that is what I have used for years. I shortened the hose to no longer than I need and remove the cap to fill it verses trying to suck the oil in. It takes a few trips under the vehicle to do the job so people who are not all that nimble may not want to go this method.
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msinabottle
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:30 pm    Post subject: Yep! Reply with quote

Finally did the math, and had a friend check it, I'll need another 6 oz. tube of that BG MGC to put in their recommended amount of that gear lube improvement concentrate into Winston's differential.

As I said, I'm not staggered by the improvement on the first tube, but, half of the minimum amount isn't a fair trial, and I may as well put in the full amount before I change out fairly new differential oil and put in the Swepco 210. I did check my notes, Daryl of AA Transaxle recommended that, not the 201.

Best!
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dobryan Premium Member
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PostPosted: Fri Aug 30, 2013 2:35 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Yep, Daryl recommended 210 for me also. Very Happy

(Now why Swepco made the numbers sooo similar....201.....210.....) Confused
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Alex Proulx
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:26 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Hello all,

I bookmarked this very informative thread a while ago for when it would be time to change my transaxle oil. Now is the time.

So today I started to look for SAE 80W/90 GL4 type oil and could not find it at NAPA, Canadian Tire or Carquest. Carquest has GL3,4,5 but I read here it is not recommended. Funny enough, the Volkswagen dealership near home has the right stuff but it is 20$ per liter.

Does anyone know a cheaper source for GL4 oil in Canada other VW?

Also I looked for a 17mm hex key for the transaxle plugs and it is bloody hard to find. The biggest one at NAPA is 16mm and all the other places I checked dont have anything bigger then 8 or 10mm.

Does anyone know where to buy such a large hex key?

Thanks in advance.

Alex
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chimivee
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:52 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex Proulx wrote:
Does anyone know where to buy such a large hex key?

Are you looking specifically for a hex key / allen wrench? You may have better luck finding a hex socket in that size. I've had no problem finding them at my local auto parts store. You'll need the socket anyway to stick on your breaker bar... And a tissue to wipe your tears when still can't get the sucker out. Wink
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MarkWard
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 12:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

You can make a tool out of a 10 mm bolt and two nuts. They should be 17mm hex. Word of caution, do not drain the trans until you can remove the fill plug. They can be seized pretty tight and it would suck if dumped the oil and could not refill it. I use Swepco 210 and before that was using RedLine MT90 I believe. Not sure what is available in your neck of the woods, but the VW stuff is not that bad a deal since you don't change it all the time like engine oil.
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Alex Proulx
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:07 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

chimivee wrote:
Alex Proulx wrote:
Does anyone know where to buy such a large hex key?

Are you looking specifically for a hex key / allen wrench? You may have better luck finding a hex socket in that size. I've had no problem finding them at my local auto parts store. You'll need the socket anyway to stick on your breaker bar... And a tissue to wipe your tears when still can't get the sucker out. Wink


The transaxle plugs are sunked in so really need an hex key like an allen wrench. Sockets of that size are indeed easy to find but of little use for changing the transaxle oil, unless I am missing something...
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex Proulx wrote:
chimivee wrote:
Alex Proulx wrote:
Does anyone know where to buy such a large hex key?

Are you looking specifically for a hex key / allen wrench? You may have better luck finding a hex socket in that size. I've had no problem finding them at my local auto parts store. You'll need the socket anyway to stick on your breaker bar... And a tissue to wipe your tears when still can't get the sucker out. Wink


The transaxle plugs are sunked in so really need an hex key like an allen wrench. Sockets of that size are indeed easy to find but of little use for changing the transaxle oil, unless I am missing something...


By hex socket I think he means a hex shaft that is housed in a socket so you can put it on a ratchet or better yet a breaker bar. It is not a socket in the sense that it fits over a nut or bolt head. If you find a 17mm hex key ('L' shaped) you likely won't be able to get the drain and fill plug off since they usually are in there very tight and you'll not have enough leverage... Good luck. Very Happy
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Building a bus for travel in Europe (euroBus)
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371

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Alex Proulx
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

rsxsr wrote:
You can make a tool out of a 10 mm bolt and two nuts. They should be 17mm hex. Word of caution, do not drain the trans until you can remove the fill plug. They can be seized pretty tight and it would suck if dumped the oil and could not refill it. I use Swepco 210 and before that was using RedLine MT90 I believe. Not sure what is available in your neck of the woods, but the VW stuff is not that bad a deal since you don't change it all the time like engine oil.


That is brilliant, great idea rsxsr Surprised I will do just that. I might bite the bullet and go with the VW oil, it will make the van happy for sure.
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex Proulx wrote:
chimivee wrote:
Alex Proulx wrote:
Does anyone know where to buy such a large hex key?

Are you looking specifically for a hex key / allen wrench? You may have better luck finding a hex socket in that size. I've had no problem finding them at my local auto parts store. You'll need the socket anyway to stick on your breaker bar... And a tissue to wipe your tears when still can't get the sucker out. Wink


The transaxle plugs are sunked in so really need an hex key like an allen wrench. Sockets of that size are indeed easy to find but of little use for changing the transaxle oil, unless I am missing something...

Sorry - it's probably just my misunderstanding/msiuse of the terminology. I was trying to distinguish between using this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


versus this:

Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.


Just trying to clarify whether you were looking for a hex key for a socket wrench, which are off-the-shelf items at my FLAPS. (perhaps not where you are though) Sorry for the confusion.
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Alex Proulx
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 1:25 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

dobryan wrote:
Alex Proulx wrote:
chimivee wrote:
Alex Proulx wrote:
Does anyone know where to buy such a large hex key?

Are you looking specifically for a hex key / allen wrench? You may have better luck finding a hex socket in that size. I've had no problem finding them at my local auto parts store. You'll need the socket anyway to stick on your breaker bar... And a tissue to wipe your tears when still can't get the sucker out. Wink


The transaxle plugs are sunked in so really need an hex key like an allen wrench. Sockets of that size are indeed easy to find but of little use for changing the transaxle oil, unless I am missing something...


By hex socket I think he means a hex shaft that is housed in a socket so you can put it on a ratchet or better yet a breaker bar. It is not a socket in the sense that it fits over a nut or bolt head. If you find a 17mm hex key ('L' shaped) you likely won't be able to get the drain and fill plug off since they usually are in there very tight and you'll not have enough leverage... Good luck. Very Happy


Ahh I see, sorry Chimivee, I could not find anything 17mm that looked like a key or allen wrench or what not that would fit in the transaxle plugs anyway. The trick below by srxrs will do just fine.
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dhaavers
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PostPosted: Wed Oct 30, 2013 4:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I had no luck when I tried the 10mm bolt trick. My plug was quite plugged.

I took my (cheap: Harbor Freight) 17mm hex bit socket & pounded it out of the socket fitting.
That by itself was short enough to clear the drain plug, and worked easily with a 17mm wrench on the bit.

Try it - you'll like it. Cheap, too...

http://www.harborfreight.com/9-piece-38-and-12-drive-metric-hex-bit-socket-set-67880-html.html
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PostPosted: Thu Oct 31, 2013 5:23 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

Alex Proulx wrote:

Does anyone know a cheaper source for GL4 oil in Canada other VW?
Alex


Check your FLAPS for Royal Purple. It is a combined GL4/5 rated oil, which some say is verbotten...but the label specifically refers to it being brass/bronze friendly, which was the issue with GL5 IIRC...

....and hey, my bus shifted noticeably nicer with fresh oil.

Be sure to remove the filler plug first!!
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