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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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 Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 8:13 am Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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| bwaz wrote: |
| So I bought a stick width link pin beam with Avis style adjusters and 2" drop spindles. After installing it, and putting the adjuster to the heights position, I'm finding with 5" rims and 135 tires that I'm still getting some rubbing... somewhere. The top of the tires barely clear the opening of the fender curve and although I don't see any burn through on the paint, I assume with my weight in the car (165 lbs) it's enough to put it lower when turning. Have to still drop the rear one notch which I hope brings the nose up a bit. I think I'm at the max of the grub screws to the leaves in the opening of the adjusters. Other than another beam or adjuster removal/repositioning, can you pull the grub screws an drill new indents in another position to gain more range? I know it's the lazy way, but if I have to pull everything I'm going to miss a bunch of summer drive time. |
5” or 5.5”? Are these widened stock wheels? My guess is the problem you’re seeing is because the wheels are wider but the backspacing is stock. This is essentially kicking the outer edge of your tire 1” out on each side. Add the kick out for the spindles and the outer edge will rub. A lot of adjustable beams, even at their highest setting are still lower than stock. Your choices are getting a narrower beam, taking the spindles off and hope this brings the wheels in enough to clear, get narrower wheels, get wheels with more backspacing.
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1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:01 am Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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| bwaz wrote: |
| So I bought a stick width link pin beam with Avis style adjusters and 2" drop spindles. After installing it, and putting the adjuster to the heights position, I'm finding with 5" rims and 135 tires that I'm still getting some rubbing... somewhere. The top of the tires barely clear the opening of the fender curve and although I don't see any burn through on the paint, I assume with my weight in the car (165 lbs) it's enough to put it lower when turning. Have to still drop the rear one notch which I hope brings the nose up a bit. I think I'm at the max of the grub screws to the leaves in the opening of the adjusters. Other than another beam or adjuster removal/repositioning, can you pull the grub screws an drill new indents in another position to gain more range? I know it's the lazy way, but if I have to pull everything I'm going to miss a bunch of summer drive time. |
What wheels are you running? The wheel offset is a very important part of the fit calculation. Stock Bug wide 5 bolt pattern wheels have a 33mm inboard offset, meaning the center of the tire is 33mm inboard of the face that attaches to the drum. This is referred to as ET+33. Common VW aftermarket wheels in the wide 5 bolt pattern typically have an offset ranging from ET+12 to ET+25, so they will push the tire out between 21mm and 8mm each side.
Stock Bug wheels are 4 inches wide (fit 135's nicely) and are ET+33 so that may work to get you the tire clearance needed. Coker tire also sells a 125R15 tire, slightly smaller, but it needs to be on a wheel not over 4.5 inches wide. Replacing your wheels with another type may get the the clearance needed, I chose the Empi slotted mag type wheel in part because it was ET+23 so only pushed the tires out 10mm each side. Your drop spindles added a little outboard push on each side, how much depends on who made them. If you have converted the front to disc brakes they tend to push the wheels out some too, how much depends on the kit.
Redrilling the indents on the front beam isn't an option. The best quick fix is in the wheels and tires.
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:49 pm Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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5" Empi brm's. 135 tires, stock drums. I didn't want the narrowed beam look for this car. Looked for 4 1/2" brm's for the front but couldn't see any for sale new or used.
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 3:54 pm Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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| bwaz wrote: |
5" Empi brm's. 135 tires, stock drums. I didn't want the narrowed beam look for this car
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A 2” narrowed beam barely looks narrowed. Not many options. Either get used to rubbing or raise it back up.
For reference my 64 with a 2” beam, dropped spindles and 5.5” rims with 185/55/16’s
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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EVfun
Samba Member
Joined: April 01, 2012
Posts: 5481
Location: Seattle
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| Posted: Sun Jul 22, 2018 9:44 pm Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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| bwaz wrote: |
5" Empi brm's. 135 tires, stock drums. I didn't want the narrowed beam look for this car. Looked for 4 1/2" brm's for the front but couldn't see any for sale new or used.
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Beautiful car, but your combo is not an easy fit. Those wheels are typically ET+14, so they push the tires out 19mm compared to stock. The drop spindles push the wheels out a little more, perhaps 6mm. That would put each tire 1 inch out toward the fender lip. Those wheels look cool, but I would recommend you either choose a different wheel or choose to narrow the beam 2 inches.
If you can find the point of tire contact you can better determine what you need to change for clearance. There are shorter tire options, the smallest typical tire for a 15 inch rim is a P145/65R15, about an inch shorter than the 135R15 size.
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| Wildthings wrote: |
| As a general rule, cheap parts are the most expensive parts you can buy. |
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Airkewld
Samba Member
Joined: November 14, 2003
Posts: 3152
Location: Goodyear, AZ USA
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| Posted: Mon Jul 23, 2018 10:41 pm Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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| bwaz wrote: |
| So I bought a stock width link pin beam with Avis style adjusters and 2" drop spindles. After installing it, and putting the adjuster to the heights position, I'm finding with 5" rims and 135 tires that I'm still getting some rubbing... somewhere. The top of the tires barely clear the opening of the fender curve and although I don't see any burn through on the paint, I assume with my weight in the car (165 lbs) it's enough to put it lower when turning. Have to still drop the rear one notch which I hope brings the nose up a bit. I think I'm at the max of the grub screws to the leaves in the opening of the adjusters. Other than another beam or adjuster removal/repositioning, can you pull the grub screws an drill new indents in another position to gain more range? I know it's the lazy way, but if I have to pull everything I'm going to miss a bunch of summer drive time. |
So the killer part of this is assumption. It can be assumed that the beam all the way would be at stock height with out drop spindles and 2.5" lower with drop spindles. But the new beam already have a built in pre-drop in them and they all vary. Lastly is going to be how much the original torsion springs have relaxed over the years. It is estimated that a stock tire gap on early beetles from the factory had a 6.5-7" gap between the top of the tire and the bottom edge of the fender. If you only measure the gap on your ride, you will find out how much lower the vehicle is in theory. IMHO, I would put new torsions in the vehicle to lift it up and go front there.
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bwaz
Samba Member
Joined: August 24, 2004
Posts: 1780
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| Posted: Sun Jul 29, 2018 8:45 am Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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After some research (and looking at the tires) the rubbing is from the bottom of the arch of the fender hitting the top/top outer edge of the tire. Driver side (with just me in the driver seat) is the worst when turning so I assume that extra 165 lbs drops that side a bit. Just trying to weigh the options as I really wanted drop spindles to help smooth the ride. It's down to narrowed beam, same lowered beam but back to stock spindles, back to stock beam and adding lowered spindles in. Thanks for the advice!
BTW, pulled the adjusters apart to be sure I was maxing out for height. Yes ;( |
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AlohaBuggin
Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2018
Posts: 6
Location: Edmond, OKLA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:40 am Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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This thread hasn’t been active in a while so I do apologize, but since this is the “lowering thread” I wanted to post in the correct place. I have a 59 with a 2” narrowed beam and it is adjustable. However, I cannot find info on how to lift the front end back up. They aren’t the puma style adjusters. It sits way too low to be a daily driver, which it is, and it scrapes on everything. Can somebody please help! I do plan on replacing the beam in the near future but need to lift it in the meantime. Thanks.
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Sharp64
Samba Member
Joined: August 27, 2015
Posts: 5304
Location: Central Florida
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 8:52 am Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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You’re missing the vertical grub screw that pushes the adjuster up to raise the front. I believe that is called an Avis adjuster?
_________________
1960 Indigo Blue Ragtop (Blue Barry)
1967 Ghia
1985 Westy Money Pit
“...some men aren't looking for anything logical, like money. They can't be bought, bullied, reasoned, or negotiated with. Some men just want to watch the world burn.” - Michael Caine |
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VOLKSWAGNUT
Fastest VW Belt Changer
Joined: October 14, 2007
Posts: 11056
Location: Flippin' a Belt........ .... Off-n-On ... NC USA
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:27 am Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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| AlohaBuggin wrote: |
| T Can somebody please help! I do plan on replacing the beam in the near future but need to lift it in the meantime. |
Yes.. missing the actual (lower beam) adjusting jack screw .. It should look like the top beam adjuster.. hope its not stripped.
Those are typical Sway A Way style adjusters and appears to be a replacement beam.
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Adjusters..
Sway-a-way
Select-a-drop
Avis or Berg.
Stock spindle
Drop Spindle
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
yes its an adjustable beam
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As for adjusting
| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
Red arrow adjuster jack bolt, Blue arrow "Grub" torsion bar centering bolt.
Having the fuel tank loose so it can be rasied will help access the upper tube adjuster and makes adjusting easier.
Raise the front of the car.
Loosen both locks nuts per tube (4 total 2 upper 2 lower) while holding the center (allen) bolts snug
Turn (out =lefty loosey to lower or in = righty tighty to raise) the adjusting jack bolt indicated by red arrow,
Adjust both beams preferably equally or as desired.
Lower car to allow torsions to settle, Jounce/Bounce the car.
Snug all lock nuts with vehicle lowered so torsions wont move when raised in the next step.
Raise the car and tighten lock nuts, but before tightening blue arrow lock nuts, be sure center "grub" bolt is still fairly snug
Lower car, roll it back and forth, or drive it back and forth and check height,
Readjust as required, or if its good, have the alignment checked. |
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TDCTDI
Samba Advocatus Diaboli
Joined: August 31, 2013
Posts: 12857
Location: North Carolina
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| Posted: Tue Apr 09, 2019 9:47 am Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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| VOLKSWAGNUT wrote: |
| AlohaBuggin wrote: |
| T Can somebody please help! I do plan on replacing the beam in the near future but need to lift it in the meantime. |
Yes.. missing the actual (lower beam) adjusting jack screw .. It should look like the top beam adjuster.. hope its not stripped.
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If it is, the nuts are usually just tacked in place & are easily removed with a couple of good strikes with a hammer & drift. There is usually enough of the tack weld in place to keep a new nut from spinning until you can get it tacked in place.
Lots of people leave the lower bolt out to keep the adjuster from being damaged when the car is excessively lowered.
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clay showalter
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2022
Posts: 4
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| Posted: Wed Jun 08, 2022 8:41 am Post subject: Re: Official "Link Pin" lowering topic |
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I am only looking to do 2.5” drop spindles stock width beam, maybe one notch in the rear and run Empi GT-5 wheels 15x5.5 with 4” backspacing. what size would I need to run up front? Thanks
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