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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2023 1:08 pm Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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I just lowered my 74 super using adjustable struts (set to second notch from top), tapered sport springs, 7/8 front sway bar, caster fix bushings, rear 3/4 sway bar. I have American Eagle (EMPI clone) 8 spoke wheels (not sure of offset) with 185/65/15's all around and it rubs badly on both front fenders.
I bought a set of 4.5x15 et41 sport wheels to better fit the car (they were original for it). Wondering about ideal tire size. Would the 185/65/15's fit now, or do I need to go narrower? _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7306 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 5:45 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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Hmmm...I'm no expert but won't 185 rub on turns? I have my Supers lowered, not much, just like 1.5" or so using lowering springs on stock struts and both have 165/80/15 tires. My '74 has same tire size but the rear sport rims are 5" instead of 4.5" Tire fills the wheel well nicely.
My '75 has Topline lowering struts w/165/r15 tires, sits at least an inch lower then the other two. Tires don't rub, but I'd have to look later (it's raining now and the car is outdoors) to see how many notches it's been lowered. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 6:42 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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I'm considering the Nankang 145's in front and 165's in rear. _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7306 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:02 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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boxer74 wrote: |
I'm considering the Nankang 145's in front and 165's in rear. |
I've had much better experience w/the Nexen SB802. I've used the Nankang's in the past but felt their traction basically sucked as soon as there was a bit of wetness on the streets. My '73 is my all-weather daily driver so this was a big deal for me. But I'm not sure the SB802 is available in other sizes. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Fri Mar 24, 2023 7:15 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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A little more expensive here for me than the Nankangs. _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Tue Apr 04, 2023 7:29 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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Here's a pic of my 74 super with 155/60/15's on 4.5" ET41 sport wheels on the front and 185/65/15's on 5.5" ET40 sport wheels on the rear.
The front was lowered for this pic using EMPI adjustable struts on highest setting along with CIP1 red tapered sport springs. Unfortunately the strut inserts, which I believe are oil filled are shot. When pressed in, they can't be easily pulled out. I believe this causes the car to drop way lower than 3" (which I understand is the safe max lowering amount for 74+ supers). On bumps, I found the control arm contacts the steering drop arm.
For now, while I consider other options, I went back to stock struts with the tapered springs. This setup with the small tires does still lower the front end about 2"-2.5" but has a fairly large fender gap which I'd like to eliminate.
I have ordered some KYB excel-G front strut inserts and plan to use these with the adjustable struts on the highest setting along with sport springs.
Expected lowering math as follows:
Struts at max: 2" drop
155/60/15 tires vs stock 165/80/15: 3.1" less diameter divide by 2 = 1.55" drop
Sport springs: 0.75" to 1" drop, but with gas inserts, probably 0.75"
Total drop: 2" + 1.55" + 0.75" = 4.3" drop
This exceeds the safe max of 3" which has me thinking I need to put stock size tires back on, which would have the added benefit of returning accuracy to my speedometer.
But I do like the look of these small smart car tires and they are brand new...
Wondering what the samba folks have to say about this dilemma. _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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illcomm33 Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2015 Posts: 168 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:22 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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My goal is probably boring to most in this thread but I am looking to use the stock steel wheels on my 74 Super with Empi adjustable struts/stock springs to lower the front/make the bug more level, fill the top/bottom gap in the rear wheelwell withOUT re-indexing the torsion bars.
I was hoping to see some photos of how this might look with different tire options?
- 74 Super: 15" x 4.5 rims
- Empi adjustable struts (set on HIGHEST setting...my understanding would be about a 2" from-now ....drop.)
- Front disc brake conversion (if that matters for the tires noted below)
Tires in consideration: (% is diameter difference from stock)
165/80/15 (stock)
175/65/15 (5.7%)
175/70/15 (2.9%)
185/65/15 (3.6%)
185/70/15 (0.7%…Discount Tire website states "fits the original wheel...")
If you have a photo of your bug with any of those tires/EMPI strut drop would you mind posting?
I found this one on a different thread. The caption read stock wheels after drop (165R15) ...it looks nice/balanced.. but not sure about the how much drop and what type of drop (springs/etc). |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 6:56 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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illcomm33 wrote: |
My goal is probably boring to most in this thread but I am looking to use the stock steel wheels on my 74 Super with Empi adjustable struts/stock springs to lower the front/make the bug more level, fill the top/bottom gap in the rear wheelwell withOUT re-indexing the torsion bars.
I was hoping to see some photos of how this might look with different tire options?
- 74 Super: 15" x 4.5 rims
- Empi adjustable struts (set on HIGHEST setting...my understanding would be about a 2" from-now ....drop.)
- Front disc brake conversion (if that matters for the tires noted below)
Tires in consideration: (% is diameter difference from stock)
165/80/15 (stock)
175/65/15 (5.7%)
175/70/15 (2.9%)
185/65/15 (3.6%)
185/70/15 (0.7%…Discount Tire website states "fits the original wheel...")
If you have a photo of your bug with any of those tires/EMPI strut drop would you mind posting?
I found this one on a different thread. The caption read stock wheels after drop (165R15) ...it looks nice/balanced.. but not sure about the how much drop and what type of drop (springs/etc). |
I'm ultimately shooting for the same. About to set my adjustable struts up on highest setting with tapered springs and 165/65/15 tires. Will post pic when done and comment on ride quality. _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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illcomm33 Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2015 Posts: 168 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 8:12 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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Quote: |
I'm ultimately shooting for the same. About to set my adjustable struts up on highest setting with tapered springs and 165/65/15 tires. Will post pic when done and comment on ride quality. |
Thanks for the reply and looking forward to seeing the pics/hearing about the outcome. I should have also noted I am using the STOCK springs. |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7306 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2023 12:29 pm Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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illcomm33 wrote: |
Quote: |
I'm ultimately shooting for the same. About to set my adjustable struts up on highest setting with tapered springs and 165/65/15 tires. Will post pic when done and comment on ride quality. |
Thanks for the reply and looking forward to seeing the pics/hearing about the outcome. I should have also noted I am using the STOCK springs. |
On my '74 Super I have 5.5" rims in back with stockish Nexen SB802 tires. They fill in the wheel well nicely. Car is messy because I'm in the process of refurbishing it.
_________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:28 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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vamram wrote: |
illcomm33 wrote: |
Quote: |
I'm ultimately shooting for the same. About to set my adjustable struts up on highest setting with tapered springs and 165/65/15 tires. Will post pic when done and comment on ride quality. |
Thanks for the reply and looking forward to seeing the pics/hearing about the outcome. I should have also noted I am using the STOCK springs. |
On my '74 Super I have 5.5" rims in back with stockish Nexen SB802 tires. They fill in the wheel well nicely. Car is messy because I'm in the process of refurbishing it.
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What wheel width and tire size up front? Is it lowered? _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7306 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Thu Apr 13, 2023 4:56 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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Front has the same tires on 4.5" rims. It's lowered like 1-1.5" using lowering springs I bought from CIP1.COM. _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:03 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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Here's a before and after shot of some slight lowering on my 74.
Before (bottom):
Tapered sport springs in stock housings with stock oil-filled inserts and 155/60/15 front tires
After (top):
Tapered sport springs in adjustable housings on top setting with bilstein B4 gas inserts and 165/65/15 front tires
The change is subtle, but I like the slightly bigger tires and the fender gaps are roughly even front and back. The front end sits approx 2.5 inches lower than stock (before I used the tapered springs at all).
The springs may settle a bit, but I need to get an alignment soon. Thoughts? Should I keep it here, or go one notch lower on the adjustable struts?
_________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7306 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:19 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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I'd go a notch lower...
Nice Super btw! _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:21 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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vamram wrote: |
I'd go a notch lower...
Nice Super btw! |
That's kinda what I'm thinking. My wife won't be happy! Been messing with this too much. Gotta find some different spring compressors since these tapered springs are a pain with the set I've got. _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7306 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:35 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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You need this - a VW factory compressor, no problem w/the compressor hooks sliding around the spring!
_________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:38 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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vamram wrote: |
You need this - a VW factory compressor, no problem w/the compressor hooks sliding around the spring!
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I was considering something like this:
https://www.amazon.ca/ATPEAM-Macpherson-Compressor...mp;sr=8-11
The problem with the cheap 2-piece compressors is that the threaded rod is positioned too close to the jaws so when using it on these tapered springs, you end up rubbing and scratching the crap out of the upper and lower spring perches. You also need to alternate side to side with a box end wrench and the whole thing just frustrates me. Has to be a better tool for the job.
Taking the strut assemblies out of the car and re-installing takes no time, but fighting with my damn 2-piece compressors is the time killer. _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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vamram Samba Member
Joined: March 08, 2012 Posts: 7306 Location: NOVA
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 5:58 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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Ok- that is an awesome looking tool. Small, light (unlike the VW tool), looks like it would solve the problem of slipping springs. I'd love to know how it works.
boxer74 wrote: |
Taking the strut assemblies out of the car and re-installing takes no time, but fighting with my damn 2-piece compressors is the time killer. |
Not on the 3-point ball joint assemblies! Those are easy to remove, pain to replace. And I have to redo-mine after taking them apart a couple of weeks ago to replace bad ball joints and decomposed rubber tops below the strut bearing. I used these from Topline, which Jon wrote me to install a pair to a side, fat ends together, but this defeats the lowering springs I have and causes the front to bounce too much because they're hard urethane and super restrict the shock travel. So...I have to go thru the R&R again in the near future.
https://toplineparts.com/product/bump-stops-for-all-lowered-super-beetle-pair-87-0258-2/ _________________ Eventually, "we are what we pretend to be.’”
Give peace a chance - Stop Russian-Soviet Aggression!!
'74 Super 9/16 - present, in refurb process.
'73 Super - 6/18 - Present - Daily Driver!
'75 Super Le Grande...waiting it's turn in line behind '74.
Click to view image
Save the Supers!! |
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Back to top |
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boxer74 Samba Member
Joined: July 03, 2011 Posts: 709 Location: Ontario, Canada
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 6:02 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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vamram wrote: |
Ok- that is an awesome looking tool. Small, light (unlike the VW tool), looks like it would solve the problem of slipping springs. I'd love to know how it works.
boxer74 wrote: |
Taking the strut assemblies out of the car and re-installing takes no time, but fighting with my damn 2-piece compressors is the time killer. |
Not on the 3-point ball joint assemblies! Those are easy to remove, pain to replace. And I have to redo-mine after taking them apart a couple of weeks ago to replace bad ball joints and decomposed rubber tops below the strut bearing. I used these from Topline, which Jon wrote me to install a pair to a side, fat ends together, but this defeats the lowering springs I have and causes the front to bounce too much because they're hard urethane and super restrict the shock travel. So...I have to go thru the R&R again in the near future.
https://toplineparts.com/product/bump-stops-for-all-lowered-super-beetle-pair-87-0258-2/ |
I actually used those topline bump stops. But not a pair per side. I have only one per side with the smaller end facing up. Seems to work okay this way. No bottoming out. _________________ 74 Super
84 Westy |
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illcomm33 Samba Member
Joined: September 11, 2015 Posts: 168 Location: Colorado Springs
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Posted: Wed Apr 26, 2023 8:08 am Post subject: Re: Official "Super Beetle" lowering topic |
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boxer74 wrote: |
Here's a before and after shot of some slight lowering on my 74.
Before (bottom):
Tapered sport springs in stock housings with stock oil-filled inserts and 155/60/15 front tires
After (top):
Tapered sport springs in adjustable housings on top setting with bilstein B4 gas inserts and 165/65/15 front tires
The change is subtle, but I like the slightly bigger tires and the fender gaps are roughly even front and back. The front end sits approx 2.5 inches lower than stock (before I used the tapered springs at all).
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Looks good and thanks for posting.
What size are the rear tires?
Is it a common practice to mismatch front and rear tire sizes on a Super Beetle (after lowering just the front) so it sits level? (VS re indexing the rear torsion bar?) |
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