Beware of Lance Moeller - [email protected]

[RHarrington]

For those of you who remember the ad for the 76 Riviera Camper on this site 3 weeks ago, you may find this useful. There is a couple from Missouri who purchased this van under false pretences. As you may remember, the ad stated the van was ready to go and everything worked. Well, believing this guy LANCE MOELLER, they bought the van. They were only 20 miles down the road when they realized they may have been taught a very serious lesson. The electrical systems failed, the gas was pouring out from under the van, the heater cable broke and when they pulled over for gas, the engine was leaking oil (ad stated this was a new engine). Total BS from this guy. If you are considering buying anything from LANCE MOELLER, please take note. He has ignored all attempts to make this van "right". If you would like to view the original ad, pictures of the problems, and the awful reponses from LANCE MOELLER, please contact [email protected] --If you have had problems with this person or would like to help in our effort to keep this site for honest VW lovers only, please forward this to the report abuse page. After receiving this report through my club, I couldn't help but to expose this to help protect future VW buyers. I have sent to Limbo,Wetwesties,Neato, &volkswebbin. If you feel for these youngsteres, please send it to your club members. THX

His ads - http://www.thesamba.com/vw/classifieds/search.php?username=Lance+Moeller

[YellowSplittie]

Thanks for the info, but could you put his email address and name in the subject line to make it easier to search for later on?

From the rules for this forum:

You MUST include the person's email in the subject line or at least somewhere in the message body in order for the Classifieds Feedback search function to work.

[Gary]

Sounds like someone needs to take this guy to small claims court.
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[YellowSplittie]

It would be helpful for their case if the original ad were still available as evidence.

[campingbox]

[EverettB]

Deleted ad text and info is available on a case by case basis. This case would qualify.
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[Lance Moeller]

I would like to take this opportunity to respond to what is apparently a nasty e-mail complaint about me, which is telling less than one half of the story. I have no idea where it has gone or who has seen it, I only hope everyone who has seen it can see my reply here. I have been driving air-cooled buses since 1984. I helped start our local VW club, and served as president for 3 years. Over the past 10 years I have bought, repaired and sold 15 buses, mostly all campers. I have gone from simple R&R on engines, to complete bus disassemble and repaints, upholstery work, canvas replacement, etc. I would not install any part on a bus that I was going to sell, that I would not install on my own bus. The same goes for the quality of work I do. I owned the '76 Bus I sold Sara for over 2 years, during that time I worked on it and installed the best of the parts I had accumulated for this project (interior cabinets, bumpers, heat exchangers, etc.). When Sara first came to my home to look at the bus she was interested, but wanted some further work to make it the perfect bus for her. I agreed to do the work, and took her $200.oo deposit for the work. I obtained a foam cushion and upholstered it for an upper bed, I also replaced the fixed front passenger seat with a swivel model from a later bus. These jobs -- cutting the bulkhead, welding in the swivel, and reupholstering the new seat took a couple of days. A week later Sara arrived to drive the bus the 200 miles home to St Louis. Later that night I received an e-mail from her saying the bus had run "beautifully" and that the van might need a couple of "adjustments." The next day I called and spoke with her boyfriend, Heath, and learned of a gas leak and non-working lights. I became VERY concerned about a gas leak, as I know how easily buses burn (they did make it 200 miles though). After a few minutes discussing the firewall and gas tank connections I determined that the repair was beyond their abilities. I agreed to drive to St Louis, and 2 days later I did. I replaced the entire gas filler neck and fittings. I found a burned turn signal bulb, and a loose connection under the dash that was causing an intermittent brake light failure. I noticed an oil leak at the cylinder head O-ring, which I offered to r&r with silicone, but Heath declined. At the end of the day I asked Heath if he was OK, and if Sara was OK with the van. He responded "yes," and that they were happy I had come to fix the bus. About 5 days later I received an e-mail from Sara with a list of complaints (oil leak, low tires, no heat). I contacted a friend of mine in St Louis and received a referral to a VW shop. I called the shop and after a few minutes felt comfortable that they knew their way around a bus. I E-mailed Sara and offered her $200.oo which she could use at that shop for these and any other repairs she might like. I feel that this is generous considering the amount of work that is needed. I cannot see driving 400 miles round trip to replace a couple of O-ring, and to hook up the heater cables. I began to think from the roving list of problems that perhaps Sara likes the idea of a VW Bus better than the reality of a VW Bus. I stand behind my work, and will fix any material thing that is wrong with the bus, but I do not feel that I should be responsible for someone else changing their mind. At this point I have spent nearly $400.oo preparing the bus to her specifications, and making repairs that I feel are honestly needed. I have offered another $200.oo for her to use at her discretion. I offered to help her sell the bus if she no longer wants it, relisting it on theSamba, or on eBay if she is in a hurry. The title has now been signed by her and that has to be dealt with. I offered to buy the bus back, but at a lower $ amount, considering the trouble and expense I will have. I am simply not is a position to sell a bus, then buy it back at a $500.00-$600.oo loss. Especially when there is nothing wrong with the bus. Everything I put in the ad was true. The E-mail going around about me says that I have made no attempts to make this right, are the actions I have described above no attempts to make this right? It also says the bus began to gush oil and gas 20 miles from my home, if this is true why did they drive the nearly 200 miles back to St Louis instead of returning to my home? I am doubtful that a bus gushing gas and oil would make it 200 miles. By her statements I now believe that Sara has never owned a VW, and apparently has some unrealistic expectations. I am also troubled that I am now reading this complaint against me from a 3rd party, whom I have never met or dealt with. Before commenting, I would ask everyone to hear both sides of any story.

[Gary]

Stick with the facts. You wrote way too much extraneous information that doesn't help your case. Copies of e-mails from the buyer would be most helpful.
_________________
West Virginia State Board of Education v. Barnette, 319 U.S. 624 (1943)

[Chuck S]

Pictures don't lie-- Take bus to a few mechanics in your area and get quotes. This will require hours of labor to address these issues--oil,electrical and gas tank -- Accumulate all info and head to court!!

[RHarrington]

Just to clarify- I have posted this concern as a caution. Beware of this seller. Do your homework. I did read both sides of the issue per the emails both sent- that are available @ [email protected] --Even if we are to assume Lance Moeller is telling the truth in his recent post, then why wouldn't he fix all problems - or offer enough $$ back to properly fix. Offering $200 would have offended me as well. It appears Lance Moeller feels he is the victim. Are you NUTS? The bus needs lights, heat, gas filler hose, and engine seal attention just to come close to the ad you posted. Any respectable person would say bring it back and I will fix. There are two sides. Read the emails sent to Lance Moeller from Sara and you all decide for yourself. By reading the new post from Lance Moeller, This man is in denial. He had the fortitude to say THERE IS NOTHING WRONG WITH THE BUS again! BEWARE!!

[Gary]

[YellowSplittie]

I'm curious why you are being the buyer's mouthpiece in all this. It would have more effectiveness if it wasn't a third party making the accusations. Have the buyer step up and present the evidence!

[SChrismore76]

Hello to all…. Please take a few moments to read my half of this story – I, Sara Chrismore, the buyer of the 1976 VW Riviera from Lance Moeller. On November 4 2005 Heath and I traveled to Lance Moeller’s home in Springfield Missouri to look at a 1976 VW Riviera. After talking with Lance and him assuring me that this bus was mechanically sound, that I could drive from Oregon to Maine, I gave to him $200 as a deposit to hold and to make changes and repairs to the bus for full asking price.
Upon returning to Lances house on November 17th the date we agreed to, not all requests were completed, but once again was assured by Lance that this bus was in excellent condition mechanically, so I decided to wave the smaller cosmetic problems and proceed with the purchase with Lance’s word that he would guarantee his work. We pulled away from Lance’s home to the first gas station to fill the gas tank (12 gallons), and air up the tires. We immediately smelled gas, but thought nothing of it. Gas gauge registered ½ tank when filled. We drove approximately 100 miles and refueled with 10 gallons because the gas gauge was showing empty. Heath stated at this time there was no heat as well. As Heath pulled away, I noticed fuel pouring out the back end, we pulled over, and couldn’t find where the leak was coming from, thought it possibly was overflow, and decided to proceed on. After another 90 miles, the gas gauge showed empty again, I noticed as heath exited off the highway that the bus had no rear lights. As he was filling the tank, I noticed that gas was pouring on the ground from behind the back quarter panel. I called Lance from this very spot, and told him of the pouring gas, no heat, and no the lost electrical systmem. I asked him right then if he’d buy this vehicle back, and he stated he would consider it, however he stated to me let me try to make things right first. We arrived home and parked. The next morning, we awoke to find oil leaking on the ground in multiple areas as well as a small puddle of gas. The bus also at this point would not start. As we were outside trying to make sense of these multiple problems, we spoke to Lance and he tried to walk Heath through the process of reaching the gas tank. Again, we asked Lance to buy this vehicle back, and he stated that he wanted to come out to fix the problems. Lance did come and we were grateful. When he pulled off the neck and checked the rubber connection from neck to tank, Lance and Heath both agreed that it was dry-rotted. He pulled out another neck assembly, and Heath and Lance noticed that the rubber adapter also had cracks but not all the way through, but was in better condition than the one he took out – and that’s the only thing he had to fix it. He brought out an additional part to eliminate the points – which he left with us until he came back the following weekend to fix the oil leaks. Lance stated that the main seal was leaking as well as the pushrod which he wanted to rig with silicone. Heath declined and said, “why don’t we fix it right when you come back to fix the main seal?”… Lance agreed. Lance then asked if we were ok with the bus – and Heath replied, “Yes, when all these problems are fixed.” Lance went home and did not return. To this day…. We are still without brake lights, and heat, it continues to leak oil, and the smell of gas is overwhelming. I called him daily per cell phone and home phone as well as emailed him for 9 days without response from Lance. He finally emailed me on November the 29th and as follows is all correspondence from that point. We called the place he suggested per email, and to fix the main seal leak will be at least $320 for labor alone and that will not fix the pushrod leak. Lance 100% new that this was my first VW bus and that I was a traveling Registered Nurse, needing a sound reliable bus to drive cross-country. I've made peace with the fact that I paid for a misrepresentation of the bus I was buying. I am only listing this to keep others from experiencing what I have experienced. However, I love my bus, and when she truly is in excellent condition, and truly ready to go, I do believe that we will have good times and memories made to last a lifetime. Happy Travels to all! The correspondence between us is as follows, however, I'm unable to copy the pictures of the bus in Lance's ad.


1976 Riviera Top/Westfalia Interior FS - $4800.oo
Completely redone and just finished this camper is ready to go. The body is excellent with no rust, and no bondo patched rockers, all solid metal. The body was stripped of all glass, door handles, turn signals etc, and was repainted inside and out, including the engine compartment and door jambs. New seals on the glass and a new tinted windshield. The freshly painted pop-top is a Riviera (opens straight up) with new seals and a custom cordura nylon (backpack material) tent. All the seats and folding bed were recovered. The interior cabinets are from a Westfalia (with the sink only, no stove) and are in excellent condition (no chips or peeling of the surfaces). The engine is a rebuilt 2.0 liter solid lifter engine with fuel injection. All fuel lines were replaced along with the points, condenser, wires, plugs, cap, rotor, alt belt, etc. New clutch disk and throw out bearing. Good used CVs, repacked with new boots. Rear wheel bearing repacked, new rear brakes and parking brake cables. New Boge Heavy Duty rear shocks. Gas tank removed, professionally cleaned and resealed with POR-15 gas tanks sealer. New Leistritz muffler, heater boxes are excellent. Tires are new or have less than 500 miles. All this work has just been completed, it has been over a year in the making. I have spent rougly 300 hours on this project, it is certainly the most aggressive project I have done to date. I have fixed everything I could find that needed it. Everything works and is in excellent shape. I am pricing this bus to sell. If you'd like to see it please e-mail or call so we can arrange it. I would prefer that you not travel with that kind of cash on you. Springfield has all the national banks. If after you see it you want to buy it we can go to the local branch of your bank and you can withdraw the funds and hand them to me in exchange for the clean MO Title that is in my name. Please don't waste your time and mine with any ridiculous check scams - I really don't even want the cash that is in your pocket, I'd prefer to get it from the teller at your bank. Thanks.



From : Sara Chrismore <[email protected]>
Sent : Monday, November 28, 2005 2:10 PM
To : lnwn4vws@aol.com
Subject : 1976 Riviera

Lance.... We've been trying to contact you through your cellphone, homephone and email and unable to reach you.... The bus has been sitting in the exact place that it was left because of many faulty problems: Leaking oil, floor is sopping wet from rainfall, having problems with lights again, no working heater, back flat tires, the crank for the loover windows on the sliding door are stripped out, and doesn't start up every time..... This isn't what I paid for - it's certainly a misrepresentation of your ad and the verbal agreement between us. You stated in your ad that "this camper is ready to go, everything works and is in excellent shape"....You stated that you wouldn't leave us with a non-functioning vehicle and you'd make things right ..I'm writing and pleading for you to contact me to "make things right".... The right thing for you to do is to buy this back from me.... fix the many problems... and sell it to someone who it won't fall apart on them on the way home.... and they can have initial happiness from Day 1.... This bus has only caused me anxieties and frustrations from 2 hours after pulling out of your driveway! I stressed to you that I was a travelling nurse and needed a reliable vehicle for the crosscountry road trips.... You assured me that this was the one! I'm at a huge loss here..... I should be happy with the purchase and be able to enjoy it... yet that it far far from the case here.... I haven't been able to even drive the thing! I beg you.... please at least contact me.... You told Heath that you'd shoot for next weekend (this past weekend) to work on the bus again and that you'd make things right.... yet you've not even called us to let us know anything of what you are thinking.... Frustration and dissappointment have flooded my head since November 17th..... Please call so we can make things right..... Sara


From : <LNWN4VWS@aol.com>
Sent : Tuesday, November 29, 2005 9:44 AM
To : [email protected]
Subject : Re: 1976 Riviera

Sara:
I am sorry to hear that you are not happy with the van. I am writing this reply as it is detailed and a written record is better than spoken word. I read your list of complaints which I am prepared to deal with, but since some of them are new you are presenting a moving target to me. I must admit I am concerned because I get the impression that you have made up your mind and that nothing I do will ever satisfy you. At this point there are 2 ways I am willing to go forward from here:

1) There is a well-reputed shop there in St Louis called Wolfsburg, located at 7830 Watson Road. I spoke with Don (phone 314-961-5637). They can make repairs to the oil leak and install the Pertronix points trigger if you like. I expect that $50 - $100 would cover any work that is needed. As for the flat tires, Heath mentioned it when you drove away from here and said it was not a problem to fix on your end. 2 cans of Fix-a-flat will cost $10.oo. If you want to have tubes installed in the tires you're looking at maybe $40.oo. There is a roof seal available from GoWesty or the Bus Depot for $20.oo plus shipping that should cure any water leaks. I will send you $200.oo which will cover these things and if after this work is done and you still don't want the van you will have no trouble selling it. I am willing to help you sell the van. I can relist it on the Samba and direct potential buyers to you. I could list it on eBay if you like (I'll want the $45.oo listing fee which I can take as a deposit from the buyer). You are going to have to get the title cleared up in order to sell it. That means going to the DMV, putting the van in your name, and asking for an Expedited Title which costs $5.oo. You will have the title back in 1 week. If we get to work on this now the van will be gone and you'll have your money before you leave for Florida. This is work for both of us, but I am willing to help.

OR:

2) If you insist that you don't want to do anything further on the van than you put me in an uncomfortable mess that I don't want to deal with either. The title has now been signed over to you and I will have to clear that up before I can resell the van. As for the money I have spent approximately $300.oo at this point ($200.oo on your requested work and $73.oo on the points replacement part I left with Heath) which I am out, so I am not going to return that. Reselling the van and bearing the entire expense and trouble is not something I want to do, and I do not feel is my responsibility, the situation is not as bad as you are making it out to be. Nevertheless, I will make the following offer; Bring the van and the title to me here and I will give you $1000.oo when it arrives at my house, and $3000.oo which I will send to you when I resell the van. I will make no guarantees on how long this will take, I will honestly pursue a new owner, but you will get the money when I get the money. Also the van must be in the same condition as when I left it there last week as I won't be responsible for the expense of any damage that may happen on the trip here (you insured it, right?).

I am hopeful you will consider keeping the van, but as I said I will help you resell it, and even pay for the small amount of work it may need (Option #1). I am not interested in spending $200.oo (Option #1)and then having you bring me the van at some later date to try and resell for you (Option #2). I'd bet that if you take the van to Wolfsburg and mention that you'd like to sell it that they would know someone who would buy it. Please try to keep a positive attitude about the van and we will work thru this ok.

I am going to extend this offer until Thursday, December 1. Please let me know in writing by e-mail which you prefer. If I don't hear from you by Thursday I will assume you are ok, and after that date I withdraw any further offer of help. I am not prepared to spend a lot of time discussing it on the phone.

Sincerely,
Lance


From : Sara Chrismore <[email protected]>
Sent : Wednesday, November 30, 2005 11:25 AM
To : lnwn4vws@aol.com
Subject : VW Bus

Lance,

I appreciate you for at least finally contacting me and letting me know where you stand.... As for your Option 1 and Option 2 presented to us, I find them absolutely unacceptable, and they offer no help to resolve this problem...I'm at a loss for words and crushed by dissappointment from you and this purchase. Simply stated: The ad that you posted on the Samba.com was misleading and misrepresentative of the bus you sold to me. The van is not ready to go, the advertisement states that the van, not only is ready to go, but that everything works. We all know that is at the LEAST, a misrepresentaion of the facts. I have included a copy of your posted ad for your convenience. Oil leaks, gas leaks (still), the turn signals, brake lights, running lights, license plate light, and reverse lights don't work, the heater cable is faulty, the exhaust system leaks, and the van collects water inside the cabin after a rain! While giving us your sales pitch for this vehicle, we had a verbal agreement that you would guarantee your work - with a lengthy time being the only stipulation (you didn't want us coming back 1 year from now with problems), as well as if we were even in the area we could drop the bus by and you would check it out and tune it up ...HA! I called you from the highway on the way home from your house.... telling you of the multiple problems.... and you said " no worries Sara... we'll make this right"..... I asked you immediately if you'd buy this back from me.... you stated that you'd consider it.... but FIRST.... let me come fix the problems, and after that I will consider it.... Both you, Heath and I know now that at the time you were trying to sell the bus, the agreement was there - however from your last email, you now want everything in writing... proving verbal agreements mean nothing to you. What an expensive lesson Heath and I have learned. You stated that there would be no way to please me.... yet it would be simple - Give me money back making the price I paid for the bus worth it's value - and the money that I will spend to fix the bus - which should by the buses ad and Lance Moeller's word already be "ready to go!" I told you multiple times... I needed a vehicle that was ready to go.... a reliable vehicle.... a vehicle that could take me crosscountry.... you stated that you would drive this vehicle from Oregon to Maine! I appreciate you coming out to try to fix a couple of these items, however, the gas still leaks and you failed to back up your word - that you would be back to address the leaking seals. Your ad also states that you installed new points, yet you dropped off a part to eliminate the points all together, and if they were new why would you purchase a 75 dollar part to eliminate them? Apparently, you do not believe that there is anything wrong with your selling practices. Lance, this is no way to do business - especially in the VW family. Its very clear that you do not want to "make things right", that the options you offered to me are just a way to make yourself feel good about the enitre deal. After speaking to many folks in the VW family world about the case at hand, you should be ashamed of yourself. I feel that it is my duty to inform the VW world of the misrepresentation and lies presented to Heath and I. All correspondence will be forwarded to everyone I know in the VW clubs, including the samba, as a word of caution. This way folks can decide for themselves who is at fault and dishonest. What happened to Heath and I should never be allowed to happen to anyone else. I guess the old saying still stands.... "Buyer Beware"......Hope you're able to sleep well at night.
Taken for a ride,
Sara

[YellowSplittie]

Wow, it sure sounds like you didn't get what was represented.

Lots of questions here for Lance:

How does one install a cleaned and sealed gas tank and not take the time to put in a new filler neck?

How do tires with less than 500 miles go flat and the recommended solution is fix-a-flat or tubes?

How do new seals require replacements to stop leaks?

How do you install an engine and heaterboxes and not connect up the heater cables or at least notice they are broken?

[YellowSplittie]

Sara, did you ever settle this with Lance?

[Matt K.]

WoW, this is a hell-of-a-mess. From the ad that lance placed for the bus it sounded like everything had been pretty much restored and for the price you would think that was a steal. But really if you had put that much effort into this bus why would you over look the small things, certainly with all the work that he did to it he would know all the quirks and fix them before you list or be honest and descibe what it would truly need. Unfortunately there are alot of non-mechanical type people out there that would take people at face value and trust what they say is true. Obviously he knew the quirks and did not disclose them at time of sale, evidence of that is because he wouldnt take the bus back. If i had done that much work to a vehicle and new it inside and out i would be comfortable re selling it if they were not happy. Lance, buck-up and fix some of the issues especially the ones where someones safety is involved .....Good Luck Sara!
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[Behemoth]

I have no doubt we'll not be hearing from Lance again.
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[SChrismore76]

Hello to all... and thanks to those who lent an ear to my story. Your generosity has been greatly appreciated, and I'm honored to be part of the VW family and to have such an amazing support system. I thank the Samba family for that. Just thought I'd drop a line to let you know that I am well.... currently living in southern Florida and enjoying every minute with my beautiful bus. I never heard again from Lance Moeller since his last post on this site. Since then, I've had the following done: replaced all 4 fuel injectors, replaced the oil sending unit, replaced front brakes, hooked up heater boxes ( not that I need that anymore here in sunny Florida ) , blower hoses dry-rotted and replaced, rewiring of brakes, installation of exhaust gaskets, and the fuel line that leads to the fuel pressure regulator blew while traveling to Florida and was replaced. AYE! This girl is NOW certainly road-ready - and she proved that by traveling 1200 miles. I love my bus - she's most precious to me. Peace & Love to you all and Happy travels..... Sara

[Matt K.]

Well Sara glad it worked out, its too bad you had to go through all of that headache to get what you originally paid for in the first place...and now at least you know what has been done to it................good luck and many miles to you.
_________________
This is my 23rd year in the Auto Body/Paint Game!
*Take a look at some of my custom paint: http://s110.photobucket.com/albums/n119/mrpaint_2006/ .( NOTE: these are some older jobs but still neat.)