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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5994 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 8:34 am Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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That throwout bearing is rebuildable too. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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revhead Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Adirondacks of NY
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:42 am Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
That throwout bearing is rebuildable too. |
Seized up solid but I carefully worked the metal shields off and it’s soaking in diesel fuel. Can you still buy just the bearing? |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5994 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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Yes you can buy a new throwout bearing but the new ones available are not rebuildable and may or may not play well with that style of pressure plate. I have had issues trying to get a new style throwout bearing to work with the old style 3-finger pressure plate. If you do get a new one, go for a Sachs German one. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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revhead Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Adirondacks of NY
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 3:44 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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sjbartnik wrote: |
Yes you can buy a new throwout bearing but the new ones available are not rebuildable and may or may not play well with that style of pressure plate. I have had issues trying to get a new style throwout bearing to work with the old style 3-finger pressure plate. If you do get a new one, go for a Sachs German one. |
Can you purchased JUST the bearing and press it in the original housing? I haven’t seen one listed anywhere. Mine doesn’t move at all. Still soaking. I faced both the flywheel and the pressure plate this morning, sand blasted and zinc phosphated them and ordered a new clutch disc.
Thanks |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5994 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:35 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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There were two versions of that old-style throwout bearing (two that I know of anyway), they are both ball bearings but the older one has the balls in a metal cage while the later version has the balls in a plastic cage. Since yours is frozen I'm wondering if it's one of the older style with the metal cage.
It may not be salvageable if the balls are corroded to the cage. At least with the plastic cage, you don't have to worry about the balls seizing to the cage and you can pull it all apart and lube it back up.
You cannot buy just the ball bearings and cage for the earlier style bearing. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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revhead Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Adirondacks of NY
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Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:12 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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It appeared like a plastic cage. Other than grease that was hardened up I didn’t see corrosion. If it will free and clean up I will attempt a repack. Or were you implying that the plastic version was available? Thanks |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5994 Location: Brooklyn
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revhead Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Adirondacks of NY
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Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 2:14 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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Thanks. I had already carefully pried the metal shields off (I’ve done this before on GM idler bearings). It soaked overnight in diesel. I put it lightly in the vise and grabbed with channel locks and it still didn’t move. I scrubbed with a nylon brush, rinsed again then filled with PB Blaster. Try again tomorrow. |
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Double-Double Samba Member
Joined: October 25, 2019 Posts: 640 Location: Oregon
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Posted: Wed May 13, 2020 4:40 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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I have a 70 with the early style setup and looking to get a stronger pressure plate without going to a Kennedy stage 1 or something else as I still want ease of driveability on my car and don’t want premature wear or abuse. Has anyone ever used the “Porsche” style pressure plate from CB Performance?
https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1323.htm
It looks like it should be a bit stronger but not as extreme as some of the racing clutches. I just want something that hold a tad bit more as I am planning on a 1776 build and I currently have 215/75R15 BF Goodrich KO2 tires that weigh probably twice as much as the stock tires.[/i] |
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revhead Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2007 Posts: 9 Location: Adirondacks of NY
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Posted: Mon May 25, 2020 1:10 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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No go on that throwout bearing. Replacing. So since I liked the 9 spring pressure plate so much I decided to keep it. It and the flywheel cleaned up nicely. So I bought a clutch plate. It looks identical. Same diameter, springs, hub length, rivers, it just a tad thicker since the old one was warn of course. When I mount it with the centering tool however and tighten down the pressure plate, the three center arms on the enter plate push out to a point where it seems to be there’s little to no travel left for the throwout bearing to disengage it. It put the old disc back in and while it’s a little better it doesn’t seem great either. Kind of baffled.
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chgrec Samba Member
Joined: October 29, 2016 Posts: 103 Location: Fernandina Beach Fla
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 9:09 am Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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Posting this question here since I think I may have a mismatch, or at least want to rule that out.
I installed my B series 1600 (from early 1968) into my 63 bus with a 1966 transaxle and the clutch would not release even with the pedal set to proper height. Engine starts fine in neutral and the gears shift fine if the engine is off but pressing the clutch in and trying to shift while the engine is running, you can feel the gear trying to engage
I figured the pilot bearing froze up or something so I pulled the engine out The pilot is fine and rotates well when using the alignment shaft. It seems I have the proper throw out bearing & lever (the lever is a new part and not clipped in yet so it looks off), clutch & pressure plate...I just need confirmation just to make sure after reading all of these posts!
I'd hate to put the engine back in until I can figure out what is sticking or causing the clutch to not release, any ideas?
Thanks!
_________________ Life's to short to drive a boring car!
Follow my latest project: https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=668542&highlight=
My previous project: http://www.mgexp.com/journal/chgrec/ |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5994 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:24 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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revhead wrote: |
No go on that throwout bearing. Replacing. So since I liked the 9 spring pressure plate so much I decided to keep it. It and the flywheel cleaned up nicely. So I bought a clutch plate. It looks identical. Same diameter, springs, hub length, rivers, it just a tad thicker since the old one was warn of course. When I mount it with the centering tool however and tighten down the pressure plate, the three center arms on the enter plate push out to a point where it seems to be there’s little to no travel left for the throwout bearing to disengage it. It put the old disc back in and while it’s a little better it doesn’t seem great either. Kind of baffled.
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As you tighten the bolts for the pressure plate, you are compressing the springs and this will naturally make the three arms pull in to where the center ring is kind of in the same plane as the rest of the pressure plate. That's normal.
Still plenty of travel for the center ring to go further when you push on the clutch. You won't be able to try it by hand, the spring tension is too great and you need the clutch pedal leverage to make it work.
I do hope you tested that new clutch disc to make sure the snout on it can fit all the way through the pressure plate center ring without rubbing. That can be iffy sometimes depending on how the clutch disc is made.
What you're describing sounds normal to me and your photo doesn't look as if anything is awry. You won't know for sure til you install the engine though. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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kreemoweet Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2008 Posts: 3897 Location: Seattle, WA
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:38 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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There are at least some "sprung" clutch disks that are not compatible with the
3-arm pressure plates, due to interference. You might have to use a "solid" clutch
disk with that pressure plate. I hope not, because I have one exactly like it, and
all my clutch disks are "sprung" like the one you show. _________________ '67 bug: seized by the authorities
'68 bug: seized by the authorities
'71 kombi: not yet seized by the authorities
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery! |
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sjbartnik Samba Member
Joined: September 01, 2011 Posts: 5994 Location: Brooklyn
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Posted: Wed Jun 10, 2020 3:53 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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After installing the engine, when you fire it up and push the clutch, if it goes SKREEEEEEEEEEEEEE then it's not compatible. _________________ 1965 Volkswagen 1500 Variant S
2000 Kawasaki W650 |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:14 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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Please Help
I have a 65 type 1 transaxle, a late model 200mm pressure plate without the ring, and the matching through out bearings. which clutch cross shaft do I need??
thank you _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15302 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 5:50 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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You can not use a late throw out bearing on an early transaxle. The late T/O bearing must also have the guide sleeve, and there is no way to mount it on an pre '71 transaxle.
You can get the P/P center ring seperatly to use with the early transaxle and T/O bearing. https://www.cbperformance.com/product-p/1315.htm _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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ashman40 Samba Member
Joined: February 16, 2007 Posts: 15982 Location: North Florida, USA
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 6:55 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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Chickensoup wrote: |
I have a 65 type 1 transaxle... |
Transmission determines the type of TO bearing release arm is needed. In your case pre-'71 TO bearing release arm.
Release arm determines what type of TO bearing needed. If your case, pre-'71 TO bearing.
TO bearing determines which PP is needed (with or without centering ring). In your case, PP with centering ring.
As suggested above, sometimes the PP can dictate which clutch disc will work/fit.
The flywheel will determine if it is a 180mm or 200mm diameter clutch disc and PP. _________________ AshMan40
---------------------------
'67 Beetle #1 {project car that never made it to the road }
'75 Beetle 1200LS (RHD Japan model) {junked due to frame rot}
'67 Beetle #2 {2019 project car - Wish me luck!} |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:39 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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awsome! thank you guys very much.
so i already own the stock original TO bearing as well as this one.
could you guys please identity which version the TO bearing pictured is? so in colaboration with my late model clutch, a centering ring, and a pre 71 TO bearing i should be set to go?
much thanks
soup _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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vwracerdave Samba Member
Joined: November 11, 2004 Posts: 15302 Location: Deep in the 405
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:15 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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Instead of being lazy how about you go back to page one of this thread and learn what YOU need. _________________ 2017 Street Comp Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble, OK
2010 Sportsman ET Champion - Mid-America Dragway - Arkansas City, KS
1997 Sportsman ET Champion - Thunder Valley Raceway Park - Noble ,OK
Featured in Dec. 2001 HOT VW's Magazine page 63
Watch my racing video's http://www.youtube.com/user/okvwracer/videos |
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Chickensoup Samba Member
Joined: January 06, 2018 Posts: 5368 Location: Good Hope, GA
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Posted: Sun Jul 12, 2020 9:19 pm Post subject: Re: Clutches - what pressure plate with what throwout bearing |
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vwracerdave wrote: |
Instead of being lazy how about you go back to page one of this thread and learn what YOU need. |
oh ok, thanks. or sorry? wasnt trying to offend any one. i dont see any of the pictures one page 1. all i see is white boxes with blue ? marks. thats ok tho, a quick google search gave me an aswer. _________________ -'85 c10 5.3 LS, 222 cam, long tubes, x pipe, 3 inch spin tech's
-'05 B5.5 TDI Wagon 17in sport rims ;EGR + BSM + ASV Delete, Stage-2 Tune, straight pipe
'65 Tourist Delivery Build
'66 RIP
'69 RIP
Hosea 4:6 "My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge" |
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