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dantrefethen
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Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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vdub
Samba Member
Joined: September 07, 2003
Posts: 442
Location: Valley Springs, Ca.
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dantrefethen
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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 Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 9:33 pm Post subject: 1838 badge |
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This is now going for $100 on E-bay
Are they wasting thier money?
I have not seen this badge before. |
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Herbie3Rivers
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Joined: May 07, 2001
Posts: 1271
Location: Pittsburgh, PA
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| Posted: Fri Jan 06, 2006 10:03 pm Post subject: |
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With those badges it's kind of touch and go. I personally have never seen one like that myself with the employee # (I assume). There are some good reproductions out there, and some bad ones. That could possibly be a real deal judging by the price, and the aging to it.
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Visit Herbie the Love Bug at LoveBugFans.com |
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kafer53
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 904
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:45 am Post subject: |
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That was a real one. I have only seen 1 other in my time in the hobby. Anything with the nazi logo is truely rare and in high damand by the "vintage hobbyists"
I got outbid at the last second! 
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1953 Zwitter 11C (L73) |
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Naked
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2004
Posts: 568
Location: Lincoln, Ca
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 4:17 pm Post subject: |
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Im by far no expert in this field. But it looks like a bad copy of the corner stone pin. I would think if it were real it would resemble a genuine Corner stone pin. And not a knock-off. Look at the top of the swastika it doesnt even meet the cog. I could be wrong.
Here are a couple pics of my real Corner Stone Pin. Ive seen some of the really bad copies of the cornerstone pin (the type you can still pick up at the Bug O' Rama) sell for a couple $100's. If your not sure of its authenticity do not bid!
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68' Vert
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dantrefethen
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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| Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2006 5:06 pm Post subject: 1938 pin ? |
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Somebody spent $256 for this
I wonder what Bob (53 oval) thinks about this one.
Dan |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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It is a fake. Simon Mitchell (the real expert on these) sent me several pictures when "they" first came out. The crude stamping and improper pin attachment plus the wrong weight all pointed to a reproduction. Simon actually bought one and had it analyzed. The real worker's badge had the two sets of numbers; the first being the worker's number and the second.....the section where he worked. Under the numbers was a colored line that showed whether he was union or management. The weight is still the test.......over the years several fakes came out in brass and were too heavy......this latest fake is light but still not as light as it should be. I hope nobody in here got stuck with this one. I just saw this thread or I would have said something earlier. At least three of these have been on eBay German within the last two months. 
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do
Last edited by 53 0val on Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:02 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Sun Jan 08, 2006 11:01 pm Post subject: |
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I will bring a real cornerstone badge to the LAX show for anyone who wants to see and touch it. It's not for sale but I will be happy to field questions if you want to come by my table. 
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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vwovalguy
Samba Member
Joined: December 12, 2001
Posts: 462
Location: HOCKEY, MAPLE SYRUP AND RUSH
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:49 am Post subject: |
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Sorry......getting back to the employee badge........Another problem with that badge involves the pin or tac. The words Ges Gesch appear on the reverse of the badge or the tac. Those words have the same meaning as the term "patent pending" It was used on all items that were to be sold and proved that the manufacture paid the necessary duty to the goverment to allow the sale of those items so marked. These badges.....both the cornerstone badge, and the employee badge were never meant to be sold and therefore will not have any markings for those reasons. It one of the easiest way to eliminate the fakes. A real cornerstone badge is quite rare.......the employee badges are more common but also rare. The style of this badge was changed after the first year. The later badges have a "flying" VW symbol, but that is a whole differnt set of problems and a whole new thread in itself.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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kafer53
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 904
Location: Ontario, Canada
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
Sorry......getting back to the employee badge........Another problem with that badge involves the pin or tac. The words Ges Gesch appear on the reverse of the badge or the tac. Those words have the same meaning as the term "patent pending" It was used on all items that were to be sold and proved that the manufacture paid the necessary duty to the goverment to allow the sale of those items so marked. These badges.....both the cornerstone badge, and the employee badge were never meant to be sold and therefore will not have any markings for those reasons. It one of the easiest way to eliminate the fakes. A real cornerstone badge is quite rare.......the employee badges are more common but also rare. The style of this badge was changed after the first year. The later badges have a "flying" VW symbol, but that is a whole differnt set of problems and a whole new thread in itself. |
That's great info Bob! It's amazing how you know the differences. I thought that with the patina and markings, that was was real for sure.
I think that it went for way too much money for a fake, but maybe not.
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1953 Zwitter 11C (L73) |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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You have to remember that "patina" is the easiest thing to fake. Throw it out in the garden.........get your dog to pee on it, put it in orange juice......I assure you that you can age anything with just a little effort. As far as the money goes......That much and more have been spent on fake cornerstone badges for years. When that kind of money can be made with just a little effort.........you can bet the crooks will try.
In the last ten years I have only know of four real cornerstone badges that were actually bought and sold. All were in advanced collections and were well known for many years. The one Bill Derricks sold was in the worse condition and he got $260 for it over five years ago. The most recent real one sold for $500 and that was a good deal. The worker's badge was not a very good reproduction to begin with. It lacked the line I mentioned and was poorly stamped and had the incorrect pin. If that were a real badge it would have never made it to eBay. There are standing offers of over a $1000 for the ones in collections and several buyers in line. None of those "players" were bidding on this badge.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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dantrefethen
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Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 6:53 pm Post subject: fake workers badge |
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Thanks for the volumes of education, Bob !
I had never heard of a Workers Badge and now I at least know enough to
not be taken.
Basicaly, if its on e-bay, seriously question authenticy.
Dan |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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PM me Dan if there is ever a doubt on a badge. I'll be happy to tell you what I know.
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"What a fool believes he sees, no wise man has the power to reason away." Dobee, Dobee, Do |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
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Location: Irvine, CA
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dantrefethen
Samba Member
Joined: April 28, 2004
Posts: 729
Location: Boise Idaho
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 10:46 am Post subject: Fake pins |
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I have never seen the star shapped one.
What is it supposed to be?
The ground breaking pin is not even close. Even I can see that.
Dan |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:37 pm Post subject: |
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It's a fantasy piece. The star behind a medal or badge is usually given for a German order. The Order of VW never existed.  It was just someone's idea of a joke and over the years people now think it's something special. The bottom of a fake cornerstone badge was cut off and put on a star casting. It's just more crap.
Makes you really question the rest of the stuff he sells doesn't it? If you're willling to charge someone $500 for a couple of obvious fakes, what else are you charging them for. 
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Last edited by 53 0val on Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:52 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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53 0val
Samba Professor
Joined: July 03, 2003
Posts: 11396
Location: Irvine, CA
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| Posted: Tue Feb 07, 2006 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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| 53 0val wrote: |
| I will bring a real cornerstone badge to the LAX show for anyone who wants to see and touch it. It's not for sale but I will be happy to field questions if you want to come by my table. |
I've got table #29. I'll bring a cornerstone badge, a stampbook and a couple of KDF postcards if anyone is interesting in seeing the real stuff with the correct stampings. I also will bring some of the most faked VW badges so you can see the real ones of those as well.
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15 windowdelux
Samba Goober
Joined: February 06, 2001
Posts: 432
Location: Hastings, Nebraska
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| Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 9:41 pm Post subject: |
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Just a word about my expreience with buying on of these badges, I bought a fake one about 5 or 6 years ago on ebay from a guy in Poland. I just liked the look of it, didn't really care if it was legit or not. I probably got 10 emails from 3 or 4 guys telling me it was a fake and not to do business with the guy selling it. I don't know if anything has changed but I'm sure if you bid on it you will get bombarded with emails about its originality that is if its a fake.
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