Winston's New Cluster: The Good, the Bad, and the Blinkey

[msinabottle]

Well, Winston--my '84 Westy-- got his first test drive today since installing the new cluster and tach. I had to wait for the new AFM and Coolant II sensor to arrive.

The engine ran great, my friend the gearhead says that the new AFM seems to make Winston more responsive--and my friend's been wondering why the old one that finally died was set on 'full rich' at over a mile above sea level.

Two problems, though, that I place before you all in the hope of useful wisdom. The worst I've mentioned before--Winston's 'new' coolant LED flashes and keeps flashing. We drove him for about 15 minutes today, and it flashed merrily the entire time, EXCEPT when we turned on the headlights. Then it went RIGHT off. Lights off again, back comes the flashing red 'coolant' LED light. The temperature needle itself moved and responded as the engine warmed up, perhaps not accurately, I don't know.

That leads to the 2nd problem. When we turn on the headlights--I'm running Hella H4's with Terry K's relay kit to spare the light switch--the new tach suddenly registers 1/2 the RPM's it was reading before. Still revs and records the RPM's, just half down.

At an idle, we turned on Winston's lights and his flashers, and everything worked, with the changes noted above. The 'coolant' LED only flashed at start-up, previously.

Some of it COULD be the coolant! I haven't topped Winston off since the new rear heater core and I also lost about a pint of coolant when I changed the Temperature II sender just today. I'll add more 50/50 Prestone Green tomorrow.

My guess would be a ground to the new printed circuit--I'll check that tomorrow, if I can, following the brown ground wire off the T1 connector for starters, and checking all connections that I can find. Anyone have a better idea?

I'd be very grateful. The news could be worse. He's drivable, just now.

[r39o]

You have a ground problem with your cluster. You are going to have to look VERY closely at the foil and determine where you got something wrong. You could also have a bad track (open) on the foil too. You may have to bench check it using an old harness and simiulate the various functions.

But, at first blush, you got some wire wrong or a missing connection of some simple thing. Later after you are sure all the circuits leading to the cluster are good, then you will have to work on the cluster.

BTW: You have a PM from me, too.

-Walt...
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[Dogpilot]

Winston sounds like this turkey E2 Hawkey (hummer) I had to deliver once from rework. I got a master caution light, with nothing on the idiot light panel. So being the clever test pilot, I pressed the "press to test" button, thinking the one that does not light up will be my emergency (burned out bulb).

Well, when I pressed the button, about 30 circuit breakers popped in the overhead, the instrument panel caught fire and the cockpit filled with smoke. Did I say this was at night in instrument conditions? I did make it to the ground in a more or less controlled fashion (ground controlled, no-gyro approach, compass, turn and bank and stopwatch), and it turned out the prop control was failing (the hydralic fluid, I know, it a weird system, was running down the prop).

None of the failures were related, it was a flubbed rewire.

Cheers,
james
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[r39o]

Dogpilot,

"Any landing you can walk away from......."

I can recall a few times having to run on mags only myself. Nothing as dramatic as you though. Then again, it happened to my brother that an engine sucked a valve and he was able to nurse it home too. Must be karma.

Maybe that is why I like sailplanes so much.....
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[Dogpilot]

My Birddog provided a nice heart stopper last year. The oil pressure line from the firewall to the gauge ruptured, pumping out all 12 quarts onto my feet and into the vacuum filter. Oh, did I say it was Hot oil? Glided into a small private field with the assistance of a radio relay between me and an American Airlines 757 and center. Capped the line, and flew on. Only bad side was, oil got into the instrument system through the vacuum filter and flooded the gyro and DG with oil. $675 to rebuild both.

There is always some 54 year old part waiting to fail to test my patience. This was my only civilian emergency, I've got over 100 field arrestments during test flying when I had some sort of low bidder crap fail on military aircraft.

I feel real sorry for those poor sods flying the stuff now, it is just older not any better than when I got out a few years ago. Most of the aircraft flying in the fleet should be scrapped, they are way over their service life. We just really haven't bought any new aircraft since Bush Senior. Just a few here and there to replace attrition. Flying the crap and the increadably low pay and no benefits anymore make me wonder why anybody still does it. There are a few of us still do it for patrioism, but the general public and the politicians don't really care. They vote themselves fat raises and great health benefits. The National Guard and Military don't get shit! They just get the crap beaten out of them for whatever fools errand they come up with.

My apolgies for railing.

I'm actually in a great mood, the Syncro no longer leaks. Had a great weekend camping in it south of the White Mountains (was on the curviest road I can remember, speed limit of 10mph and it was optimistic). Had some great observing with the scope. I promised some pics, but I had technical difficulties with my brain and the camera.

Cheers,
james
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[msinabottle]

I continued my efforts at, y'know, actually trying to solve my problem--not that I haven't been flattered by Winston's comparison to vehicles costing orders of magnitude more.

I tested the coolant level sensor by plugging, unplugging, and shorting it. Nothing affected 'the blink.' Then I unbolted the console, you have to leave the T1 plugged in with the engine running for this, and tested the voltage regulator on the back of the new printed circuit. My tester is analog and not that precise, and it SEEMED to read 11 volts--10.5 or 9.5 is too much or too little. I cleaned and swapped out the identical relay from my old console, which had no weird manifestations, it read the same and 'the blink' continued.

Next I cleaned the T1 contact with non-plastic-eating contact cleaner, then I groped around above the fuse box for the #43 relay, the coolant sensor relay, and unplugged it. If the light kept blinking, it was supposed to be a bad capacitor within the very gauge itself. Well, 'the blink' continued. I did clean the contacts on the relay and plugged it back in. I also put a toothed washer on a ground the folks who installed the aftermarket stereo had put in.

I tried tracing the circuit in the blue printed circuit from the relay pin, I found that it terminated in a rusty nut and bolt and removed those and scoured 'em with contact cleaner and steel wool. I have no idea of how to use my Ohm meter to check for a short. I finally decided to just put everything back together and try again later.

Well--when we started him up again to go to the post office, he's running SUPERBLY, the light... soon went off. It would go on if we adjusted the dimmer switch on the light switch, and if we turned on the lights, it would blink for a bit, then stop, while the tach dropped back down again as it had before. The only other freaky thing we noticed was that the instrument panel lights don't work at all.

I did trace the wiring to the ground, the relay, as far as I could--but the relay worked perfectly before the new printed circuit, and the temperature needle on the new gauge moved and believably to the half-way point.

I think it may be a bad connection in the new printed circuit, or, indeed, it could be a bad capacitor in the tach/fuel/temp gauge. Still very open for useful input. A very minor problem after installing a re-furbed part doesn't QUITE seem, to me, to equal every relay in a plane popping, but I cheerily confess my ignorance of such things. I'm just desperate for informed input about VW Vanagons.

Until I get those instrument lights on, admittedly, the whole LED bulb issue there is moot. Put in all new conventional bulbs when I put the cluster back together. Also put lots of Kroil on the oxygen sensor--It's still happy where it is. I'll just keep soaking it, and try it on a hot exhaust.

And I am tired.

[r39o]

james,

I understand. Trust me. Not only is the equipment, but the dingdongs doing the "service by the book" would never have noticed that oil line might be a bit weepy and needed looking at, as an example. They are young kids who might have actually changed the oil in their car once. The truly good ones leave as fast as they can, because even if they did spot that leaky line, it would not be on the schedule and hence they would not be allowed to fix it. Plus, I know for a fact, they will over work anyone who actually knows something.

I am certain many aircraft that crashs are maintainance related.

I don't want to rant, but it is pretty bad.....
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[bljones]

keep the verbosity coming!

your detailed descriptions of your travails make for some great reading, and your dogged persistence is admirable. keep it up.
_________________
OG JHC
Author of Original Rant #1
"It stingd itself to dead... now that is control on you"

2%

[Dogpilot]

Did winston's old cluster have any personality? If not, then the problems would be isolated to the new one. To detect a short with your multimetr, set it to Ohms, then when a circuit is open, it will usually read a high number or something to indicate infinity. When you have a short, it will read zero or close to it. Reading across a light bulb or the like will be 8-20 ohms. A LED will be infinite in one direction and a low number when you reverse the leads.

I think you can use the temp module from your old cluster to substitute out. I would also swap out the light switch with your old one if you have it.

The instrument lights go to a grey with a blue stripe wire to the dimmer (normally). The bulbs are notorious for not working. They are also wired so that a break in the foil ground, for example would make all the downstream bulbs to not work. You can take out the cluster, attach two leads to either side of the foil for a removed instrument light and see if the other lights work if you apply power.

Find the ground wire in your plug (usually brown), test it by checking with your multimeter to a body ground. Then find ground on the foil by corrisponding the connections. then follow it around the foil with your meter and see what may be broken or corroded. It shold read zero or near zero if the connection is good. You can use a pencil eraser to clean the foil of corrosion.

On the other subject, suprisingly 97% of all aircraft accidents are due to no fuel, or fuel in the wrong tank and not being used. Fuel exhaustion is the leading cause. Actual mechanical issues are a very small part, weather is the second biggest killer.
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[msinabottle]

The old console behaved perfectly, as far as I can tell. I shall follow your suggestions here gratefully.

I only got the tach/fuel/temp gauge and housings, an LED clock that doesn't work, and the blue printed circuit when I bought the tachometer. All the other switches are from the old cluster, and the harness was only changed in the order of its connections. I can test that ground wire, though, now that I know what the devil's involved in doing it.

My late Uncle was in the Air Force at the time of the B-58 Hustler. The engines on that plane were so powerful that if one of them cut out, a very early computer had to feather its opposite promptly to prevent a flat spin. Of course... The plane couldn't fly with two engines out...

Tomorrow I can finally reinstall Winston's refurbed central storage cabinet.

[Dogpilot]

The B58 Hustler was the coolest looking bomber ever built. Really fast with no range. Apparently it could only drop bombs in the United States if it went supersonic. The guys that flew it were extreme thrill seekers, it landed at 200+ knots and had this clamshell thing that would enclose the pilot when he ejected at high speed. It was unfortunate if things were hanging out when it closed. If you ever go to Tucson, go to the Pima Air Museum, they have one of the few remaining examples. It is really awesome, be sure to check out the tires, they are about 18" in diameter and there must be like, 20 of them per gear!

Good luck on the console.

Cheers,
James
_________________
Geology with a Syncro rocks!
86 Syncro Westy AKA "The Bughunter"
98 Disco I
08 Range Rover SC
08 VW Rabbit S
1951 O-1G

[pocvw]

I like the B-52, myself. During the first Iraqi war, those things would take off from New Orleans, bomb Iraq, and fly back home to New Orleans. Not to bad for a 50+ year old plane! Also, these things are scheduled to be our main heavy bomber into the 2030's.
_________________
Life is a garden - dig it!

1980 VW Westfalia

[buspor63]

Rob,
You are doing great! You defintely get the determination award! I was lucky with my guage swap I guess. I did take it out of a running '85 bus, install it in my '85 bus to check it out, then swap it into the '84.

Worst case may be the foil is bad. Keep chipping away.

[msinabottle]

Tomorrow I go hunting grounds and shorts and tracing circuits on the foil. Since I do seem to have gotten some improvements by cleaning things here and there, I may do more of that. Another thought is to put the brown ground wire in pin #2 of my new T1 straight to a chassis ground. That would almost certainly improve my current flow. Current theory is that my whole console is starved for power.

I wish I knew what I was doing, though. Did have a triumph, in that Winston's center cabinet--with a new faceplate and a door installed in that--is now installed. The only trace of the A/C left in it is the warning sticker.

And guess what I am?

[r39o]

You know over the years I have built up many clusters. Little things like missing washers on the terminals on the flex circuit or bad crimps on the pass throughs on the flex could cause issue. Sometimes a crimp on one of the resistors would be weird. So you have to look on the flex at the connections.

Now I forget, does the Vangaon have the "voltage stabilizer" (3 terminal voltage regulator) on it? You should be sure that little gem is working.

I think there are some trouble shooting guides in the Bentley for the cluster, too.

It is not that hard. Once you find the real problem and fix the root cause, you will say: "duh!"
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[msinabottle]

I did check the panel voltage regulator and swapped it with the one from my old cluster, which worked fine, as far as I could tell.

One unpleasant additional development--now the radio's not working. Possibly it hasn't since the new cluster--I haven't tested it 'til today. But the cluster and the radio aren't on the same circuits. The most likely explanation for that is that I dislodged the wires that feed the radio, which is aftermarket and was, I can tell, installed by hacks, during my last foray in and around the fusebox. I'm really looking forward to running the radio off the auxilary battery, when I get that installed, that'll clean out some of the rat's nest behind the dash and give me some more room under there.

I'm trying to find the wiring for the long-gone air conditioner and completely disconnect that. I can see the wires that go to the dealer-installed switch, I'll have to trace them. I think they may have been cut, but they could be draining current and/or shorting, and I've got problems enough already.

Fuel gauge does seem to be working. I found one of my fuses with the element popped off the back of the plastic body--so that there was no conductivity. It didn't fix the radio, but it might have fixed the dash lights. Couldn't test it in broad daylight.

We took Winston to a distant hardware superstore to get a bottle of 3M Marine Fiberglass Polish and Restorer for Heavily Oxidized finishes. Guess what that's for? First 10:1 Simple Green dilution to clean off the dirt, then the 3M stuff until I had to quit due to cold wind and darkness. Got about 2/3's done. The stuff does seem to take off quite a bit of gunk, although the result isn't as white as I might have hoped. It's very smooth and even though.

Tomorrow I will try and get back to the electronics.

[msinabottle]

Today I disconnected every brown wire I could find on the two 'multi' grounds, cleaned them with a wire on a Dremel, cleaned the grounds themselves with contact cleaner, and reassembled. No improvment at all.

I also cleaned the main bulb lead into the blue printed circuit. I don't think the intstrument light panel bulbs are lighting. The Tach still drops to half power when I turn on the lights. So, it was a lot of difficult painful work for nothing.

I should also note that my aftermarket radio is now no longer working. I may have neglected to reattach its ground after the first disassemble, so I re-attached that after grinding that ground down to bare metal before reattaching. Then I found that one of the spade connectors on the radio had come loose. I put on a new one.

One of the two power wires is supposed to be attached to an 'always on' circuit, the other to the switched circuit. I have no idea if any of those connections are correct, I suppose I can test down the line of them for current with Winston's power turned off. The radio may be fried, I have no way of knowing. It requires a special key to be removed from the dash. I don't have that key.

Needless to say, I am very, very discouraged. It was very cold out there, today.

[Michael J]

The instrument cluster wiring is not associated with the radio (except for maybe the lighting) - at least, not unless someone has made changes from factory wiring.

You did not mention - what model year is the new instrument cluster from? There are differences in the 14-pin connector between model years, and between US/Canadian/Euro models.

Michael

[Ericthenorse]

What kind of stereo do you have?? I do a lot of stereo work, and I might have the right "key" to remove yours.. Free if you want it..
_________________
'69 bug--rusty as hell
'91 vanagon carrat-slammed,5 speed,4 wheel disks,17x8.5's

[mightyart]

You should be using your old blue wiring harness thing, I think that's most of your problem. Use only the new tach.
For a special key for your Radio? if you mean one that slides in the rectangle hole on each side of the radio, I just use my handy VW key, it's a copy I can just slide it in and push towards the outside of the case and my radio slides right out.
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