Wasserboxer "big bore" question

[bljones]

It's good news/bad news time for my 86 syncro. The bad news is I have a head gasket leak. The good news is this gives me a legitimate reason to tear into the top end. The bad news is I am probably going to need new heads. The good news is it gives me a chance to do some other work. So i got to thinking...

Anybody have any experience with 2.2 l "big bore" slip-ins? Since the heads will be off, i figure i might as well take the next step, if it is worth taking.
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OG JHC
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[r39o]

Who supplies those?
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1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

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[bljones]

http://www2.cip1.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=ACC%2DC10%2D5213
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OG JHC
Author of Original Rant #1
"It stingd itself to dead... now that is control on you"

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[r39o]

$300 translates to cheap Taiwan crap. Most likely, the same as the $150 standard sets. You can not seriously believe you can get a quality set of custom jugs and pistons for only $300, do you?

Plus what compression ratio do you end up with?

Sounds fishy to me. I think I would pass and buy a set of quality pistons and have my jugs bored.

"You get what you pay for."
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"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[Phil G]

Just a few thoughts, not a debate . . .
It might be worth researching. I only paid about that for a beautiful set for a Syncro motor I freshened up a few years ago. And before Taiwan gets axed out-of-hand, they have actually manufactured some very nice stuff when well managed. They aren't in the business of casting novelty rubber dog shit anymore. We have a lot of nice 316 stainless marine fittings cast for us over there. The guy we get our Porsche cylinders from has state-of-the-art operations in San Francisco and Shanghai. That's who I got my last WBX barrels from. Makes some really nice stuff.
Basic good quality casting and machining is a no-brainer in most parts of the world these days. But with heads it's a bit different. Add bronze, spring steel, hardening processes, and moving parts, then suddenly a few sources are good (if you're lucky) and the rest crap.
If you get heads and have a headwork guy discard the valves, springs and guides for Manley's, you'll spend a few hundred more but come out ahead in the long run.
Again, just my thoughts on the subject.

Oh, and R39o makes a good point - compression ratio. Do your research on that.

But maybe the central point here should first be that of design before getting to the quality issue. The manufacturer of the cylinders has to get that increased volume from somewhere. If they are 'drop in', doesn’t that mean you are buying cylinders with a thinner wall? No bueno, senior.
Don't go this route. If you've torn down that much of your motor, spend another few hours splitting the case and sending the halves out to be machined for larger O/D barrels, and mill the heads accordingly. You can deal with compression adjustments at this stage.
. . . . . Oh go ahead and get a longer stroke crank and nice rods while you're at it, who's gonna know?

[r39o]

We've had reproduction parts made in Taiwan. Some excellent and some that do weird things down the road. FOr something as important as pistons and cylinders, I would not want to trust myself to gamble on them. I just don't have the time for such games. Do you want to be a long way from home on a vacation and have the engine crap because you cheaped out on something as vital as those? Not I. It makes no sense. There are no savings there.

Then again, you may get lucky. Who knows?

I'll state it again:

"You get what you pay for."
_________________
"Use the SEARCH, Luke" But first visit the Vanagon FAQ!

1990 Multivan EJ 22, Rancho trans 0.82 4th, Small Car front AC, CLKs w/ 215/65-16, homemade big brakes 303mm, Konis, Recaros, etc....

Click to see my ads for Cup holders, Subaru clutch fix and CLK wheels (no wheels currently)

[wbx]

[bljones]

Thanks for the responses.

r39o, I used to think the same way about chinese manufacturing, but now they scare the hell out of me. Their quality improvement curve is off the charts; chinese foundries and machine shops are legitimately becoming world class manufacturers. Chinese auto parts companies are far ahead of where they were a half decade ago, quality wise, and are showing a discomfitting willingness to provide what their western customers demand, quickly and cheaply. Remember what a joke we all thought japanese cars were forty years ago?

You are absolutely right about getting what you pay for. fast, cheap, reliable...pick two. That is why i ask my esteemed colleagues for their input.

Phil, i am waiting for cylinder specs- i am generally not a fan of air-cooled slip-ins, and i want to find out what the metallurgy and wall spec is, to see what the potential downside is.

WBX, i read the gowesty! info, and have decided to do some further research, because their info seems a little contradictory. In one paragraph, the author disses the dish as being too small, causing unacceptably high compression, then further on a piston comparison is cited, with different dish displacement quoted, which would dramatically alter the CR.
At a glance, the gains do not seem to offset the losses, but with the wind howling and the snow flying outside, this is a good time of year to sit at my desk and do some blue sky engineering.

I'd like to be able to wring better than 100 hp out of the engine without breaking the bank. Time to think about improving the head flow.
_________________
OG JHC
Author of Original Rant #1
"It stingd itself to dead... now that is control on you"

2%

[r39o]

[Ericthenorse]

I believe the saying is "Cubic inches costs cubic dollars..." I believe that Gowesty was using overboared cylinderss in the begining, but now are having custom cylinders made...Nice thick walls....
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