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jmfoust
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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 Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:04 am Post subject: 1 dead, 2 dead, DeadHead |
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'80 ac Vanagon federal model
Took yesterday off from work to see if I could figure out why my Vanagon was running so poorly. No power when the engine is cold, little power when warmed up. I've also had to richen the mixture and advance the timing to keep it running. I did couldn't get any compression on cyl. 1 & 2. So I did a valve adjustment, replaced tube o-rings, replaced valve cover gaskets. Got it running, but still no compression on the right bank. So it's running on two cylinders - no wonder there's no power. Valve train seems good, rockers are working. Valves appear to be opening and closing. My question is how would you lose one whole side of the motor? I can only come up with a massive failure between the the two cylinders in the head. I don't have massive crankcase pressure or any blow-by. The right side heat exchanger doesn't even get warm. Number two spark plug looks as new as it did out of the box  1 & 2 were always a little low on compression - but now it's just gone.
jamie
des moines, iowa |
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wileysc71
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Madison, AL
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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This may be a long shot since it's only the 1/2 head, but if that head ran hotter than 3/4, it could have stretched the head bolts enough to lose compression. You can take off the rocker and re-torque the nuts under the rocker and give it a shot. If they don't torque, then they have pulled loose. Of couse, you'll have to adjust the valves again after doing this.
May be worth a shot.
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~ Sean
'71 Super |
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Zeen
Samba Member
Joined: July 24, 2004
Posts: 1308
Location: The Sunny Part of Michigan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 9:55 am Post subject: |
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Let's start with the basics. Compression comes from:
- air comes in
- combustion chamber is sealed (valves, piston rings, head/cylinder joint)
- piston goes up
One of those things isn't happening.
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The consequences of your decisions should not be confused with fate. |
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jmfoust
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 12:41 pm Post subject: dead head |
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| wileysc71 wrote: |
This may be a long shot since it's only the 1/2 head, but if that head ran hotter than 3/4, it could have stretched the head bolts enough to lose compression. You can take off the rocker and re-torque the nuts under the rocker and give it a shot. If they don't torque, then they have pulled loose. Of couse, you'll have to adjust the valves again after doing this.
May be worth a shot. |
From everything I can recall doing and checking, it sounds like the next course of action will be to torque the head. I'm wondering if the p.o. had the cyl. gaskets installed, and over time they have been eaten up, causing the loss of seal at the cylinders.
jamie |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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I would say you dropped the seats(bad cooling on that side, hows the engine seal?) or cracked head. there should be no gaskets, just steel shims if anything. and each cylander has it's own. I would take the head off and inspect it.
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=139054
Funny I guess they don't want to help the aircooled vanagon people in the baywindow forum no more. No worries there are alot more people frequenting this forum now then there used to be, just post here.
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wileysc71
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Madison, AL
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
| Funny I guess they don't want to help the aircooled vanagon people in the baywindow forum no more |
I replied while it was still in the Bay forum.  I just wasn't sure if it was the same setup as my bay.
| mightyart wrote: |
| I would say you dropped the seats |
That's a possibility. I had a similar situation on my super beetle. After getting compression back after retorqueing the head, I found a dropped exhaust seat on #4 exhaust. 1/2 head was loose too though and those seats were fine. He may get lucky. I'm just glad Keifernet suggested I try that trick before pulling the engine to inspect everything.
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~ Sean
'71 Super |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:31 pm Post subject: |
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| Pull that head ASAP, then you will know why... |
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| wileysc71 wrote: |
I replied while it was still in the Bay forum. I just wasn't sure if it was the same setup as my bay. |
yes the early aircooled vanagons (80-early83) have the same engine(with a few small diffrences) as the late bays.
When I first got my 81 Westy the Vanagon/eurovan forum was a ghost town, lucky to get more then one post a day.
So I used the bay forum alot to find out what was the deal with my strange aircooled beast.
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wileysc71
Samba Member
Joined: March 13, 2005
Posts: 660
Location: Madison, AL
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:41 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
lucky to get more then one post a day.
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Maybe there will soon be more posters from my neck of the woods. For the last 5 yrs here I think I saw one AC Vanagon. In the last several months I've seen probably half a dozen.  I just enjoy seeing any ACVW.
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~ Sean
'71 Super |
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jmfoust
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:44 pm Post subject: moved? |
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I really wish this post wasn't moved. I posted here for a reason - the same reason I belong to the bay groups. Most Vanagons are watercooled. The vanagon community isn't really up to snuff on the ac knowledge, or do you get many replys. In case everyone needs a reminder - they use the same type iv motor (later years). Maybe you bay guys are getting a little splittie attitude! Had this been a vanagon specific question, I would understand. When I need ac experts, I always post here.
jamie |
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MrBreeze
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Joined: October 06, 2002
Posts: 5541
Location: Lawn Guyland, Noo Yawk
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 1:55 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
| Funny I guess they don't want to help the aircooled vanagon people in the baywindow forum no more. No worries there are alot more people frequenting this forum now then there used to be, just post here. |
Geez, guys, don't be so dang sensitive. I moved it in here because it's the VANAGON forum and I figured he'd get more exposure in here. I left the link in tha Bay forum so those who were helping could continue to do so.
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WTB: Bay Shore or Queensboro VW Frames
HBB 1984-2009
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:02 pm Post subject: Re: moved? |
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| jmfoust wrote: |
I really wish this post wasn't moved. I posted here for a reason - the same reason I belong to the bay groups. Most Vanagons are watercooled. The vanagon community isn't really up to snuff on the ac knowledge, or do you get many replys. In case everyone needs a reminder - they use the same type iv motor (later years). Maybe you bay guys are getting a little splittie attitude! Had this been a vanagon specific question, I would understand. When I need ac experts, I always post here.
jamie |
Well it ain't a ghost town here anymore, maybe it's time for a change.
there a few aircooled Vanagon owners that frequent this forum.
I think one of the moderators owns one.
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mightyart
Samba Member
Joined: March 24, 2004
Posts: 6188
Location: Portland, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:08 pm Post subject: |
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| MrBreeze wrote: |
| mightyart wrote: |
| Funny I guess they don't want to help the aircooled vanagon people in the baywindow forum no more. No worries there are alot more people frequenting this forum now then there used to be, just post here. |
Geez, guys, don't be so dang sensitive. I moved it in here because it's the VANAGON forum and I figured he'd get more exposure in here. I left the link in tha Bay forum so those who were helping could continue to do so. |
Just a bit surprised, I always got help when I posted, I used to tell other AC Vanagon owners with strange engine problems to post in the Bay Forum, lot's more aircooled people there. maybe I overreacted a bit.
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VWBusrepairman
Samba Member
Joined: July 06, 2004
Posts: 4726
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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It's because we are a level headed bunch in the bay forum. (or so the voices in my head tell me)
This is not to say other forums aren't as equally as helpful (though I don't post much in other forums since my experience concerns the bay bus)
some think we are a bunch of stink-foot hippies who smoke marijuana and are good for nothing, but there is a lot of good advice in this forum for all to enjoy.
Difference between bay owners and others is we don't care what VW you drive.
(took me until 2005 to accept the vanagon, though- it's a very different creature, to say the least). Mightyart- you rule! |
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MrBreeze
Samba Hitman
Joined: October 06, 2002
Posts: 5541
Location: Lawn Guyland, Noo Yawk
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:35 pm Post subject: |
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| mightyart wrote: |
| I used to tell other AC Vanagon owners with strange engine problems to post in the Bay Forum, lot's more aircooled people there. |
Maybe pushing the people the people to post in the Vanagon forum would help the forum grow, ya know, get those ac vanagon owners helping their own in here.
Always feel free to post a question in the bay forum. If I (or any other mod) feels it's more vanagon oriented, we'll move it in here and keep the link in there. This way you get the best of both worlds. Some advice for those who are gonna do that, make your title something that shows that, like "Vanagon AC question" or something like that, so everyone knows that it's something they'd like to help out on.
Not trying to make it a us vs them thing, heaven knows we catch enough of that. Just trying to help the forums grow 
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-=Rob
WTB: Bay Shore or Queensboro VW Frames
HBB 1984-2009
RW 1943-2011
ER 1964-2023 |
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Ericthenorse
Samba Member
Joined: October 03, 2004
Posts: 782
Location: Los Osos CA.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:46 pm Post subject: |
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I don't think we are having a problem here.... 22 new replies and new posts since I checked a 8 this morning... 
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'69 bug--rusty as hell
'91 vanagon carrat-slammed,5 speed,4 wheel disks,17x8.5's |
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lilweasel
Samba Member
Joined: April 15, 2005
Posts: 285
Location: Seattle, WA
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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| Aircooled vannies all the way! |
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vwjedi
Samba Member
Joined: November 29, 2005
Posts: 1463
Location: G-ville, FL - hopefully on a trail.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 5:10 pm Post subject: |
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I am gonig to go out on a limb here and actually try to help out.
I think you aren't getting any spark=no heat on that side. Check the basics first. How are you checking compression?
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1987 Wolfsburg T25 still riding out. A bunch of other VW's passed on... |
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lovedavdubs
Samba Member
Joined: April 30, 2004
Posts: 1597
Location: New York, NY.
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| Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2006 6:04 pm Post subject: |
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| lilweasel wrote: |
| Aircooled vannies all the way! |
Wahoo 
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82 Air-cooled Westy (Lola)...My other vehicle is a subway. |
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jmfoust
Samba Member
Joined: February 01, 2005
Posts: 130
Location: Des Moines, Iowa
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2006 10:10 am Post subject: took advice - no change |
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I re-torqued the head last night. No Change. She runs for a little while, but wants to die after a few minutes. I'm thinking burned valves. The motor had massive vaccum leaks when i bought it. It's given me a year and a half of good service. For only $500 bucks, that's not a bad deal. I'm going to go look at a '84 westy tonight for $700. I've had a diesel, aircooled, and now I'm looking at a wasserleaker. I'll probably keep the '80 ac since I've fixed everything on it, I'll find a decent used head and go from there - it makes a great work truck. I'll let you know what I find out.
jamie
des moines, iowa |
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