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Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA
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epowell
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:27 pm    Post subject: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

Can anyone give me the rundown on how people typical use propane for our cooking stoves? What kind of canisters (fotos, links), and where to buy, and where to get filled.

I am now designing my new kitchen cab unit and need to know the typical dimensions of typical canisters....

...also what kind of hook-ups are used. I will buy this stove probably... https://www.amazon.ca/Texsport-Compact-Propane-Out...&psc=1 will I have buy a special hook-up adapter?

Thanks!
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 9:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

Probably the most common is the disposable 1lb bottle. There's a legal refillable 1lb bottle now available.

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=1+lb+propane&adgrpi...507yz37b_e

Next are refillable bottles of all sizes made of steel and fiberglass. These have a different fitting than the 1lb cans. The 1lb bottles are super convenient but create waste. The refillable versions create less waste. A composite tank is lightweight but not expensive than steel versions.
https://www.amazon.com/17lb-Capacity-Lightweight-C...amp;sr=8-1

That stove you show uses the 16.4 oz (1lb disposable cans). The last photo of the package says this.

This stove doesn't cost much more but has wind screens and twice the btu per burner.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01N23DXND/ref=dp_cerb_1

An easy answer? Get a stove that runs off the 16.4 oz disposable or refillable cans.

That's a start. There's more to learn. Enjoy.
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E1
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 09, 2019 10:34 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

Hey Ed, are you looking to mount a propane stove in your custom cabinetry?

And attach it to a Westy propane tank under the van?

With all respect to Jim, the Coleman bottles are environmentally very poor, very expensive day-by-day, may not be easy to find where you are, and will totally shut you down if you run out of fuel at a bad time.

You might research options to use a Westy propane tank -- and possibly find a RV-style stovetop or better yet a Westy stovetop -- if getting lucky enough to find one.

Texsport has a long history of making really second-rate equipment, too. Based at least on some of their stuff I tried quite a while back, there's no way I'd trust any stove of theirs inside a van.

I have no referrals, Sorry, but with all you'll put into making a custom system I'd find the best stove you possibly can -- and one that's cheap to operate. Our fuel bill is roughly $4 per month cooking constantly in the van, and the idea of any larger propane tank inside the van freaks me out, honestly. They're pressurized bombs if getting into a crash.

All the Best.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 4:30 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

The safest is to get the proper propane tank and mount it as the factory did under the Van.

Some opt for the refillable five lb bottles which will need to be safelynstowed so as not to become a projectile in an accident.

The one lb bottles are sold almost anywhere, I really don't see them being hard to find. Even gas stations sell them if they have a store attached. (Not cheaply though)

As far as a stove, the BTU's are important. You don't want to be waiting an hour for a pot of water to boil on a low BTU unit.
That being said, you want flame adjustability too, something the cheap units do poorly at. Nothing more maddening than a roaring flame that you can't tame!
My unit had two different size burners, not two equal.

I purchased a stove similar to this link where EACH burner puts out 20,000 BTU, not the stove as a whole.

https://www.amazon.ca/Camp-Chef-MS2HP-Everest-Burn...8Y9TM2EJM7
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epowell
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:47 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

jimf909 wrote:

This stove doesn't cost much more but has wind screens and twice the btu per burner.
https://www.amazon.ca/dp/B01N23DXND/ref=dp_cerb_1

An easy answer? Get a stove that runs off the 16.4 oz disposable or refillable cans.


Thanks!
Does this MARTIN stove run off the refillable 16.4oz cans? It does not seem clear on the package.



E1 wrote:
Hey Ed, are you looking to mount a propane stove in your custom cabinetry?

I was not aware that Westys have their own propane tanks mounted underneath the van.... if you have one, how is it re-filled? What is it's max. capacity?


E1 wrote:

And attach it to a Westy propane tank under the van?
Our fuel bill is roughly $4 per month cooking constantly in the van.

How do you manage this?
In Europe...our total usage (a lot of daily cooking) came to about $10 a month (OK, very similar to you Very Happy ) using refillable 5KG canisters.

I am considering these https://www.amazon.com/Flame-King-Refillable-Propa...amp;sr=8-5 refillable 1LB cans... but would like to know:
- how much it costs to refill?
- where to refill - and if refilling stations are hard to find in N. America?
- if a stove which works off the disposable 1LB can will ALSO work the same way off of the refillable 1LB can?

If I go this way I would have 2 1LB refillable cans - and each would last us about one week, so that would mean that every 7 - 14 days we would need to find a refill station >>> this would be no problem if they are common place --- if not this could be a nightmare.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:55 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

If you want to use 1 lb bottles these guys are local to you and sell refillable ones:
https://propanedepot.ca/products/cylinders/cylinderpurchase/
They can help you build out your system too.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 9:58 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

I am also considering this 4 burner stove, which seems more solidly built - and price is still reasonable. Not likely we would use all 4 burners but a cutting board could be placed across the front to burners and used to chop veggies. Not much info on how this gets it's propane... 1LB cans again??? ...or? https://www.wayfair.ca/outdoor/pdp/cookinex-super-...html?piid=

But finally this one seems the best... in terms of price, look, and versatility.
https://www.amazon.ca/Flame-King-YSNHT600-Burner-C...EZ5696CM3H ...but it does not specify hook-up specs - just says "propane".
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epowell
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:29 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

photogdave wrote:
If you want to use 1 lb bottles these guys are local to you and sell refillable ones:
https://propanedepot.ca/products/cylinders/cylinderpurchase/
They can help you build out your system too.


OK, I just called these guys and got many answers -
20lb CANISTER IS STANDARD SIZE - $59 for FILLED CANISTER
7.5KG empty .8.3KG propane TOTAL 16kg
approx 18' high X 12 wide
FILLING COSTS $22 for 17 litres
which will last for: 4 months = $5/month


At the BBY store I can get adapters for going from the canister to whatever stove I purchase.

THANKS!
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:45 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

The refillable 1lb cans are designed to be refilled by the user, not a store (though I'm sure some will). So you'd still need to have either loads of refillables or carry a 20lb tank as well.

In your case, I'd be thinking of buying a second-hand Westy tank, as some people will buy a new one rather than tackle the surface rust on the older ones. You'd then clean it up and repaint it, replace the valves, and mount it under the van. This would be a 3 US gallon tank, containing 2.4 gallons when full at 80% capacity. This is about 10lb of propane, and possibly the cheapest way to have a long-term solution. Any propane supplier should be able to refill the tank.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:47 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

epowell wrote:
photogdave wrote:
If you want to use 1 lb bottles these guys are local to you and sell refillable ones:
https://propanedepot.ca/products/cylinders/cylinderpurchase/
They can help you build out your system too.


OK, I just called these guys and got many answers -
20lb CANISTER IS STANDARD SIZE - $59 for FILLED CANISTER
7.5KG empty .8.3KG propane TOTAL 16kg
approx 18' high X 12 wide
FILLING COSTS $22 for 17 litres
which will last for: 4 months = $5/month


At the BBY store I can get adapters for going from the canister to whatever stove I purchase.

THANKS!

How are you going to legally carry that tank? You'd need a firewalled compartment with venting direct to atmosphere.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 10:52 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

Ed, a standard Westy tank is 3.3 gallons but shouldn't be filled above about 2.5.

Last fill we did, from empty, shut the pump off at 2.6 which means the relief valve is working properly.

Our average use is around a gallon per month, and we tend to do long simmers on soup, chili, and rice-based dishes. Plus coffee every day. On average we eat 1.5 cooked meals a day.

The filler connection is a standard device that's been at every filling station we've visited, which is about 30 to 40 different stations now.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

Aha.... it is not legal to carry a 20lb canister in the van? In Europe I take a just lightly smaller canister around everywhere - - when I bought the van the guy had 3 of them in there. Of course it won't be visible - and in BC there are no vehicle inspections > so someone would have to be pretty nosey to check. . . so I am wondering if this is really an issue. Certainly it seems the easiest and cheapest option - just to get one of these 20lb canisters.

- - -
Getting the stock Westy (underbody) propane tank would be great of course - but I'm guessing would cost a bundle new - ------> second hand would probably still cost a bundle and be a major amount of work.

- - -
We use about 1lb of propane a week... so I could buy the 20lb canister and 4lb canisters for a one month trip. This option seems easier and cheaper and lighter than going to stock Westy tank... I could just keep the 20lb canister at home for self-filling
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:03 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

New Westy tanks are maybe $400-500, re-valving an old one should be under $100.

Others may disagree, but as one who's rolled a Westy and had several propane leaks, a tank in the van is something I'd never even consider.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

Blue Rhino in Canada? Sounds like you won't be doing a lot of trips but using it more as a cabin. I traded in my BBQ tank at Lowes for a Blue Rhino one. My tank was 15 years plus old and quite rusted. They take the tank as a core regardless of condition. When it runs out, I can swing by a Blue Rhino and get a filled exchanged tank. Works out pretty good for the BBQ.

Its probably not a problem in Canada, but in the south it is not uncommon for the van's interior to get to 130 F on a sunny day. I'm pretty sure most compressed tanks have some sort of built in pressure relief. I would not want a tank relieving itself inside our van.

The factory propane tank works great as mentioned. Problem is for you it would depend on the van being drivable when you need a fill. We've rented California camper vans twice in Europe. They included 2 bottles that were larger than the green disposable ones we have and I don't recall anything specific to secure them in place. They were just stowed in a compartment you could access through the rear doors. Somehow we survived both trips.

If you find you need a diesel transmission for it. I have a low mileage diesel 4 speed I pulled out of our 82. Too bad both places you live are so far away. Mark
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

I have used the refillable Flame King for many years now. They are refilled at my local propane supplier for $2 per 1# canister. There is a refill yourself option.

North Westy sells an adapter to hookup to a Westy stove.

http://north-westy.com/north-westy-parts/lp-elimination-kit
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:07 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

I have used the refillable Flame King for many years now. They are refilled at my local propane supplier for $2 per 1# canister. There is a refill yourself option.

North Westy sells an adapter to hookup to a Westy stove.

http://north-westy.com/north-westy-parts/lp-elimination-kit
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

Thanks guys... I agree the best is a real Westy tank, but I don't think I will be going for that... Mark got it right - I might not even have the van insured when the tank needs refilling.

Believe it or not I might even stick with this beautifully simple little 1,6NA for the long haul.... so I would love a spare tranny. Where are you Mark?
.so weight is a major consideration. Just carrying 2 or 3 1lb cans would be cool >>> but I will design my cabinets for hold the 20lb can just in case we go for long trips, and also to have in there for "cabin mode".
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 10, 2019 12:26 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

If Mark is too far for you, I did see an diesel transmission on vancouver craigslist:

https://vancouver.craigslist.org/pml/pts/d/maple-ridge-vanagon-4-speed-diesel/6951266046.html

Listed as 1991 doka 4speed diesel ALD code. I don't know if this matches the 1.6na or the TD with respect to gearing.

I do see them come up sometimes locally.

I have thought about grabbing a spare but storage is an issue.

S
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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 11:47 am    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

Some more info on the PROPANE CANISTERS.

I called the specialty store and they explained to me that it is considered unsafe to run HIGH PRESSURE propane lines INSIDE the van. They said that all of the 1 LB cans are HIGH PRESSURE and therefore not safe to use inside the van.

The point here is that the danger comes between the canister and the stove because the stove itself, which is designed to run off the 1 LB cans, has a pressure regulator (reducer) built into the stove - and on the cheaper stoves it is not possible (or easy) to bypass this regulator, therefore if you put a pressure regulator on the canister, then the pressure would get reduced twice - at the canister and also in the stove = too low pressure.

So the guys at the propane store are also stumped because this stove https://www.amazon.ca/Flame-King-YSNHT600-Burner-C...EZ5696CM3H is advertised as n RV stove suitable for INSIDE use.

They said they'd call me back after contacting the manufacturer.
Image may have been reduced in size. Click image to view fullscreen.

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PostPosted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:25 pm    Post subject: Re: Typical Propane use methods in CANADA/USA Reply with quote

We use the 1 lb tossable canisters in the summer as we're just cooking on a Coleman stove, not using the Big Buddy heater (It internally holds 2 1 lb tanks) that time of year. I also have a 12 foot hose and adapter and a larger RV-size tank that I will bring if its a winter trip, or if we are sitting in one place for days at a time. This allows some flexibility so I can run the heater for extended periods with it the tank outside and the hose running in the window.

Having both lets me leave the big tank at home for a mixed trip where we are exploring to a new destination each day, or for most summer trips.

I have still not found a satisfactory way to mount the big tank on the outside of the vehicle underway. We never sleep with it inside, and underway it is secured to the seat frame.

The adapter and hose I got at Cabela's. You have to know whether you need one with a pressure regulator in it or not, and you should test the setup at home so you know how it works and such. For instance, the hose hisses a while after you disconnect, which is normal and I knew from driveway testing. But out in the woods if you hear that for the first time, it may be disconcerting and cause you to doubt your system. It's just the long rubber hose decompressing after you disconnect something.

I agree the 1 lb canisters are pretty poor resource use and if I were living in the van for extended periods, I'd get more serious about the larger canister. As it is, we use about 2 canisters a summer, including non Vanagon camping and the flexibility is nice.
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