Shop rankings in Phoenix, Arizona

[Dougsbuggs]

[TUDrewser]

Anybody know of a good brake shop in Mesa? Or more of a brake/machine shop, I guess. Want to turn some drums and maybe get some rotors cleaned up. Don't really need a full service shop...I can take them off and take parts to the shop.

[Dougsbuggs]

[TUDrewser]

Can you get frozen/rusted dust caps off too?

[52HoffmanSplit]

There isn't anything that Karl's had that Dougs cant either get off the shelf or order for you. Go to Doug's and get the right part and excellent service.

Frankly one of the reasons Karl's went out of business is just what Desertbusman said... They fired their greatest salesman and the most knowledgable parts person they ever had. He helped a great deal of customers each day (only about 60% of them to buy something) the rest wanting knowledge and info on how to fix, alter or repair something. I watched my brother explain to a Dad and his daughter one afternoon how to rewire their car complete with drawings he made and I saw him, almost everytime he sold a part impart with them some wisdom of the best way or trick to install it.

What that created was a sense that when you went to Karl's Mesa there were people like Tom Butterfly, Gilbert and Chris who KNEW what they were doing, would help you because they had loads or knowledge and genuinely loved (and drove) the cars. That Father and Daughter returned MANY times for knowlegde.. but also bought quite a few parts for that 1966 Bug they were building for her.

Unfortunately nothing lasts forever and drama ensued, false accusations that were never proven thrown about and they had a deep lack of understanding of what it really takes to run a competent business. Couple that with hiring a person with virtually ZERO parts experience to take over, that person making daily mistakes handing out incorrect parts and incapable of answering the most basic questions regarding engine size, carb set-ups etc and what you get is Failure.

I think the prediction was that Mesa would fail in 1 year... ok.. it took 18 months.
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DB

9/1950 Hoffman Standard
11/1966 Porsche 912
10/1966 Porsche 912
7/1968 Type 265 Double Cab
10/1958 Type 117

[dmorel]

Thought I would add to the thread on my experience with Doug's over the last few weeks.

Took my (newer to me) 78 in for a complete tune up, was getting some surging and stalling and things were generally not running exactly correct. Asked them to just go over the whole thing as well and let me know what they found.

Gilbert did a great job of staying in contact with me and talking me through all my various options. Ended up that I did have to get two new heads, did a number of other little things, and tuned everything. I picked it up Saturday afternoon and the bus runs like new. Unfortunately I also picked up a small oil leak which I hadn't had before. Called Gilbert yesterday and let him know he tells me to swing by. I booked out of work a little early and they found the issue. Asked me if I could leave it over night. I didn't actually have a way to get home and was having trouble reaching my wife for a ride so Fish just fixed it while I hung out and chatted. The place was packed and I had a chance to see the way they interacted with their customers while I was there. They really deserve to be praised for their customer service. They are genuinely nice guys, pleasant to talk to, clearly very knowledgeable. Don't try to just sell you things, but rather figure out what the right thing to do with your vehicle is and find a way to get that done. I even heard one of the guys tell a younger customer to just hit up the samba for a used part for something he couldn't afford to buy from them new. Good guys, good service, and I feel like I could drive my bus anywhere the way it's running now.
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The Zen philosopher Basha once wrote, 'A flute with no holes, is not a flute. A donut with no hole, is a Danish.' He was a funny guy.

[EverettB]

From another thread, my response

[scott woodward]

I would never take my beloved vw to wedge vw, never! I am currently repairing my bus from a tune up gone wrong. I will be posting the story on line when I cool down some. scott
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Peace!

[salty dog]

Oh boy, can't wait to hear this story Scott. Guess you are seeing the same "TRUE COLORS" that I saw.
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If you argue with an idiot for more than 5 minutes, who's the real idiot?

67 Fastback RIP 3-1-11
62 Panel/Sub-Hatch/Camper
69 Single Cab

[gutwrencher]

Does anyone have any experience with German Autotec on Main St. and the 101? With my Type 1s and 3s, I used to go to CE until they moved to Phoenix, then Ive going to Karls for the last few years until I just now found out they closed down.

I just got a 66 type 2 and dropped it off at this place yesterday to have a tune up/valve adjustment and rear axle seals and wheel cylinders replaced. Unfortunately, I didnt see this thread first as it sounds like Dougs might be worth looking into as well.

Anyway, these guys charge $80/hour. Thanks for any feedback.

*EDIT: They estimated $900 for parts and labor.

[silver billy]

I've heard German Autotec is hit and miss. I never got the impression that they did much aircooled business anymore. Richard, the owner, is a nice guy.

Mike from Karl's Mesa has opened up his own shop German Autowerks. He is behind the Valvoline, across from Karl's old location. It was a true honor for me to work with this man at Karl's. He is unequivocally, the best IMHO. 480-668-1402 service only

Gilbert and Larry at Doug's have been great to work with as usual.

[scott woodward]

Hi all, its taken me months too cool down from this, but it is important that people know who the deal with, This is my story


My night mare experience began after a tune up done by Wedge VW on 24th street in Phoenix Arizona. My name is Scott Woodward I have several busses and other vw’s, I even got both my sons into the VW fever. For some of you that know me, know me by my shirts and my 1967 Dormobile with custom wood interior. I rarely vent out or write a negative comment about someone or a business. Well this is so under my skin and troubling to me, one because I have experienced it and two I keep hearing nightmare stories from other Vw friends and acquaintances that have used the same shop.

The story

The Jerome Jamboree was coming up in several weeks, and I needed to get my shirts ready for the show and to get the bus dialed in and tuned up. A month earlier I did a trip to Flagstaff (it’s a longer trip) with no problem, but I knew that dealing with trying to get the bus smogged and messing with the carbs , timing, that if it was all out of sorts. So not having the time I took it to Chris at Wedge VW. I know most of the guys at Wedge VW from their working at other shops in town, so I felt comfortable dropping off the bus, besides what can go wrong with a tune up???????

The bus,
A 1967 Dormobile, all redone inside and out, full custom interior. Custom paint work, two tone. I built a 914 type 4 2.1 engine with a Jake Rabi DTM fan shroud. Duel Italian 44 IDF Webbers less than 1,000 miles on it. Most all the work done , I did. From interior to suspension and engine. This bus is my pride and joy.

The tune up.
I needed a tune up, valve adjusted, timing, carburetors synchronized , new fan belt, new gas cable (old and getting worn) and new oil light sensor. This is what I asked for and scheduled to bring the bus down and drop it off appox 2 weeks before the event. I did this and waited several days. Calls were made on both sides, hit and miss. Call from the shop, Paul called asking about locating the air cleaner filters (1966 912 Porsche) ,I told him not to worry about it that they were hard to find. Several days later , I finally got the call to come down and pick the bus up. Paul went over concerns about some oil leaks on the pushrods and that he did not replace the gas cable as I wanted, he did not see a need too ,so we settled the bill of $292.00 and change and I was also handed my new cook top from the bus with scratches and dings on it. The story he gave me was when my bus was parked on the street, people had gone in it, opened doors and that when he pulled it in to the shop, the rear door opened up and the new cook top slid out of the bus and down the street. He also said he would get it powdered coated to fix the cook top ( it would need more than that). I know for all of us out there, our cars are our babies, we work hard to get them to where we want. We spend our hard earned monies and we all would be shocked to know people freely went into our cars while waiting to get a tune up. What would you do if this happened to you?. I was pissed!
I loaded the bus on my trailer and took it home along with the damaged cook top.

A week later, I was going to see my mother in assisted living and my youngest son, we wanted to take the bus. Cool. We went to go see her (4 miles away) The bus ran good, until the fan belt came off , I pulled over and put another one on, (fluke??) we continued to only have the gas cable brake , fixed that on the side of the road, and off we went, then as we were pulling into the driveway, after a 4 mile 3 hour or so trip the bus stopped running. After looking at the engine and going through it, I found that the points came apart. I am very very upset. I called Wedge Vw the next day, I got Chris on the phone who instantly as I was still talking to him, put me on hold, I hung up and called back, and the same thing happened but this time Paul picked up. Paul, listened to what was going on and told me he would call me back. $ hours later I called and that he talked to Chris and they decided to refunded ½ the monies. They did not even discuss what their plan was , just told me what they were going to do. I went down to get the check. All of this was done through Paul. At this point , I thought ,Ok, Not the best customer service, but …..

Prior to the caravan to Jerome, I had put new points in, checked timing, checked belt hoses, checked and fixed oil leaks from the push rods, checked the gas and clutch cables and gotten spares,I was ready! To Caravan.

The day of the caravan.
Seven miles to the meeting spot at 7;30 in the morning, my son and his girlfriend, camping gear, shirts food we are excited and ready for our 11th year of the Jerome Jamboree. I get to the meeting spot and smoke is coming out (small drip oil leak from the pushrod seal). I look under and a small oil leak over the muffler. So I clean it up , let it cool and fix it. We are ready! The caravan get’s going and so are we . We are caravanning with the Arizona Bus Club!, 20 plus busses, very cool, until we hit Black Canyon City (15 or so miles). We pull over , check the bus over , check fan belt , oil light is on , oil is full, the bus is running hot, so we let it cool as we see the caravan go by. We have 4 more cooling stops of at least an hour on the side of the road, this sucks.

Meeting at Albertsons

We make it to Albertsons in Prescott Valley, this is where we all meet and refill gas, raffle and the last stop untill Jerome. The Bus club was having some problems with the raffle bus, so we decided to go ahead and make our way to Jerome. If we had any trouble, we would not be behind the caravan. So off we went, at the base of the mountain road , we lost all power in the engine , so we glided to the side of the road. I was looking at the engine, checking all wiring, oil, belt ,etc while my son turning the key to try and start the bus. It would not start, we took a break from the bus problem and then …it rolled back into the trailer and smashed the rear driver corner and vent. I was really upset regarding the whole ordeal, I call Wedge VW, talked to Paul and told him what I thought of the so called tune up, that I wanted all my money back and to have Chris call me as the caravan drove by us. Several people stopped telling us that they will be back with the tow truck to get me. 4 ½ hours of so, they did come back for me, Thank you guys!
.
The trip in, if you have ever been to Jerome, you know is the back way on a mountain 2 way road built on a cliff with major ups and downs. Pretty hairy to travel on a tow rope, behind a truck but we made it to the campsite and after a full day of on the side of the road, well, it was good to just be there among friends!

Vw people and friends are ready to lend a hand, tools, advise, food ,drink, and they are there in the time of need, Thanks to all that helped me!

The next day, Saturday, my wife was coming up in her car, with food and drink for our second day. Her trip and stay was short lived, by us leaving at 1am to go back to Phoenix ( a 2 hour trip) , get my truck and trailer and be back by 6;00- 63;0 before the kids get up. I made it. Loaded the bus on the trailer and left my little trailer only to come back in the middle of the week.

Confrontation

Now I had only spoken to the owner of the shop several times since this the tune up, and it seems its up to me to call and follow up on messages I left at his shop. So on Monday morning 11am on the dot, I called and he answered with” hey how’s it going” and after a lengthy update and re hash or this story, it turned ugly. Out of complete frustration of going no where with Wedge, I pulled the motor on the bus, and found that the cross over air vent breather hose from one carburetor to the other carburetor had been sucked into the fan shroud (DTM set up is like a type 1) all coiled up inside, but with no hose clamps to be found anywhere. I now realize that when I got the call Paul regarding the finding of the air filters (912 Porsche, ) for the air cleaners on my engine, that the mechanic did not put back the hose clamps on the breather tube. So, I made my call again to Wedges owner, and told him what happened, the ugliness happened again) The outright arrogance , dodging of phone calls, and even the mental games this guy plays (Passive aggressive) and telling me ,” I should of called him” “what I should have done” and that the feeling was, it was my fault. His response was the same over and over and over, saying the same thing,. I finally said screw it after hours of this mental game. So…. I ll fix it myself, so I took the engine apart. I took photos of everything. I found I had dropped 3 valve seats and I had a reputable machine shop fix the heads, again, just as they did, a whole head rebuild the year before.


The call back

I called the owner of wedge a month or so later, told him what the problems were and the machining that had to be done to fix the engine and requesting the new cook top ( which took months). Telling Chris and asking for the cook top only started his mental games again.

I told him I just wanted the machine work covered, $500.00 and my cook top. He reliantly agreed and said he would put it in the mail, which I told him I would come down to get it the next day. The next day Paul called me to tell me that the owner , Chris, was not going to pay, but though he had paid me enough.

I was done.

Nothing sucks more then, trying to keep your spirit up during something like this. I have put in soooo much time and money into my Bus. I went to the Las Vegas bug o Rama with the bus on the trailer, unloaded it at the event and pushed it into place at the show without a engine. Just being there was great, but it sucked when the cruses go on at night and the car shows. I brought back my bus and parked it in the garage, with the new engine in, but not hooked up until Jan 8th. This whole bad event really had gotten to me so decided to get back into it by going to BBB in Havasu, even with less than 3 miles on the bus and a huge dent on the back. The BBB show was great for me ,seeing the event and vw’s, really gave me the motivation I needed to get the bus back to where it was. So, I was going to let this ordeal go and just learn from this and get on with it. That was until , I kept hearing people, friends or friends of friends that had problems with a shop in town. The shop was the same one I had gone to for my tune up, so I had to put my story out there for others to see. I still have not decided to go after them legally, I have so much documentation regarding this. but in this day of struggling ,and survival I just want to get back to driving my split bus. Thats what I enjoy! Scott Woodward
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Peace!

[salty dog]

Here's my story about WEDGE VW. I was working for Chris for some years and I got hurt on the job. I went to the Emergency room and was told I needed to have surgery on my knee. I file a Workman's Compensation claim as it DID happen on the job. I was out of work from February 13th until March 28th when I was released from my Doctor to return to work. Every Monday after I would go to the Wound Center I would call Chris to update him and I would get screamed at or the phone would get hung up. I still have a message on my home phone answering machine where he says " You're F!@#$%G me " over 300 times. Chris is very upset and tells me I told you I had no insurance benefits when I hired you. To me this means no Health, Life, Dental, or Eye coverage, not Workman's Comp. as it is the law. Needless to say I had no job now, no income coming in for all those weeks, and then waits until I am released from the Doctor to tell me I am fired for turning in a claim. Worse yet, I had Vacation time owed and was told to prove that he owed it to me.
I had a 23 window Bus come in on a tow truck with a seized engine. Chris buy's a 1915 long block from another VW Shop and tells me to install it in the 23 window. I do so as he is the owner and I am the employee although a lot of folks thought it was the other way around. Then I am at Buses by the Bridge in Lake Havasu the following January and the owner of the 23 window comes up to me all upset and tells me I am a liar and a thief. I ask him what this is all about and he proceeds to tell me that Chris told him that I had built the 1915 and he had to go to get some parts on a Saturday while we were closed so he ends up going to the same Shop that Chris buys the engine from and they tell him that the engine in his Bus was purchased from them. I tell this guy that he needs to take it up with Chris as I never told you I built your engine and as a matter of fact, we had very little conversations with each other. All his dealings were with Chris. He apologized to me and said that he was unaware.What a way to spend a nice relaxing weekend being confronted by an irate VW guy and you have no clue as to why he is so upset.
There also was a women who brought a Beetle in and needed to have an engine installed. She posts up on here that Chris just built her a motor and that she is entirely impressed with the quality of the engine and his work on the install. The engine came from Tucson and I had done the install. Once again pulling the wool over someones eyes. Ask Chris about Mr. Burns sometime. I bet he won't even go there.
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If you argue with an idiot for more than 5 minutes, who's the real idiot?

67 Fastback RIP 3-1-11
62 Panel/Sub-Hatch/Camper
69 Single Cab

[Paul Wilson]

I heard yesterday that Karl's Custom in Phoenix is closing their doors. Another one bites the dust.
uglyoffroader

[Desertbusman]

I heard scuttlebutt about that also. But I refuse to believe it just because I don't want to believe it. Very seldome do I get over there but it was sure great getting starded with VW's 16 years ago. Bill and crew were of great help. In recent years I had Paul look at my carb situation. He didn't work on it but he impressed me.
It personally wasn't any big loss when nearby Mesa Karls closed down but it would be sad to have the Phx store close. And then with BAP getting real real puny with Dub parts the future doesn't look as good for us. Wow, 16 years ago there were Dub shops and stores all over the place.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[OvalinAz]

I drove by Karl's today, Looked inside and the whole place is empty, only thing in there was the front counter.
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Dad's 4/55 Oval
8/56 Oval
5/64 French Notchback
12/62 French 11 Window Bus
Wedge VW
Pandraggers C.C.

[Desertbusman]

Ran into a guy out on the interstate on the way to Cali. He mentioned that some other local was trying to take over what's left of Karls. Seems like he said Kirk or someone like that. It was someone who we remember from years ago. Wish I had better memory of what the guy said.
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71 Superbug
71 Westy

[fergus]

Current Phoenix Shops:

Was at a car show on the West Side last month and there was a crew with matching orange shirts handing out Karl's Kustom stickers; they said someone named "John" had bought the rights to the name and had started a shop up on the North/Central part of town somewhere. Anyone dealt with them?

I called the Karl's Phoenix number when I needed a fuel pump earlier this year and Montz answered; he apparently bought Karl's phone number; how smart is that? Any comment's on Montz? (He treated me just fine by the way.)

Wedge seems to get bashed in here a lot but Doug's seems to be doing right by folks? I will admit it's cool seeing Gilbert behind the counter sort of provides some continuity from Karl's Mesa.

...and Mike Mittl; holy crap is that guy busy. Any day you roll by there you'll count 1/2 dozen VW's and Audi's getting fixed.

Who am I leaving out???
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59 Standard
71 Sunroof Deluxe (stolen!)
77 Riviera Lobo Bus

http://www.arizonabusclub.com

An Arizona-based, family-oriented club, dedicated to the restoration, preservation, and enjoyment of the Volkswagen Transporter. Plus we drink a lot of beer.

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[Desertbusman]

[OvalinAz]