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swanlakers Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2005 Posts: 370 Location: Lost in space
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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Help me out here. I thought that the round heater knobs under the dash were 56 only, and the "wraparound" front bulkhead mats were 57,58,59.
Here is a pic of an original 57? with both. Can anyone tell when the round knobs end, and when the full rubber treatment started? Also when did the door panels go from corduroy and vinal to all vinal with the upsweep detail? This enquiring mind of a 56 owner wants to know.
lars' 57(?) Black Coupe _________________ https://www.thesamba.com/vw/archives/lit/56ghia/cover.jpg |
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retrowagen Samba Member
Joined: October 11, 2004 Posts: 1856
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Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:09 pm Post subject: |
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swanlakers wrote: |
Help me out here. I thought that the round heater knobs under the dash were 56 only, and the "wraparound" front bulkhead mats were 57,58,59.
Here is a pic of an original 57? with both. Can anyone tell when the round knobs end, and when the full rubber treatment started? Also when did the door panels go from corduroy and vinal to all vinal with the upsweep detail? This enquiring mind of a 56 owner wants to know.
lars' 57(?) Black Coupe |
Yes, that's the Neuffer's (Lars' wife claims the car's actually hers, not Lars'!) Black Coupe. It's an AMAG (Swiss-built) "Montage Suisse", one of the earliest out there, in fact. And very VERY nice and original; I've seen it closely. I don't know its chassis number or build date, but I can comment on the questions posed by swanlakers:
Door panel change to vinyl + corduroy (previously all vinyl): January 1956 production
All-rubber firewall cladding introduced (was carpet+rubber): April/May 1956 production, chassis 1154228, Karmann body #3761
Ventilation controls become levers (were knobs): February 1957 production, Karmann body #14061
Door panels full vinyl (multi-texture with "upswept" color inserts) (previously vinyl + corduroy): September 16, 1957 production, chassis 1649252, Karmann body #22922
You should all also take note of the type of gas pedal, the correct shift and dash knobs, the beading at the door jamb, and the location of the heater vents in the rocker corners. On cars made before chassis 1128610/body#3001, they were located exactly 270mm closer to the centerline of the car.
There were numerous details changed during production from July 1955 through the big batch of changes on September 16, 1957 (the so-called "1958" changes), at seemingly random times. This is evidence why I don't consider any sort of "Model Year," but I won't discuss that topic any further on this forum ... you can read about it when my book comes out.
The rubber firewall cladding introduced with chassis 1154228 was ultimately available in three distinct colors: grey, green, and beige. The Black car above shows the grey variant, as does Broad's Cardinal Red late '57 pictured elsewhere. My Brilliant Red had the beige color, which in all honesty looked more to my eye like olive green.
The Neuffer's car (whether it's a later '56 or early '57) is a really nice car. He caravanned with my pal Lutz and I back from Bad Camberg in '03. We were in the Aerosilber; Lars in the Black Coupe; another friend, Rainer, in the lovely '63:
_________________ David Ruby
President, Karmann-Ghia World Club |
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swanlakers Samba Member
Joined: July 17, 2005 Posts: 370 Location: Lost in space
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RockStock Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3924 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 4:39 am Post subject: |
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all excellent stuff; thanks Stato Dave
retrowagen wrote: |
All-rubber firewall cladding introduced (was carpet+rubber): April/May 1956 production, chassis 1154228, Karmann body #3761 |
& can you tell us when it finished? at some point in the '1960 model year'?
ie some 60s came with full cabin rubber matting?
i know the 'upsweep' door panels continued into 1960
as did the mushroom dashknobs/window-winder handles
retrowagen wrote: |
you can read about it when my book comes out |
can i have an autographed copy??
retrowagen wrote: |
The Neuffer's car (whether it's a later '56 or early '57) is a really nice car. He caravanned with my pal Lutz and I back from Bad Camberg in '03. We were in the Aerosilber; Lars in the Black Coupe; another friend, Rainer, in the lovely '63 |
shame to have missed you at BC
are you booked in yet for BC07?????
(maybe you could hand deliver the book ) _________________ -StockRocks- |
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udo dreisoerner Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:09 am Post subject: Floor mats and other rubbers |
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here 2 pics from an partlist from 1958. i hope we speak over the same parts now )
udo |
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udo dreisoerner Samba Member
Joined: February 13, 2005 Posts: 1153 Location: Germany
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:23 am Post subject: lars neuffers low light |
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in 2003 there was an karmann ghia meeting in HANKENSBÜTTEL ( germany)
i have had the great luck to be the passenger at the meeting excursion in lars's swiss made amag lowlight ghia. it is the greatest lowlight i have ever seen. i have an video clip and if someone want that clip i sent it with an email
udo.
my email adress is [email protected]
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RockStock Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3924 Location: England
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Posted: Sat Feb 11, 2006 5:27 pm Post subject: |
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Jonas Burman2 wrote: |
I might have what you are looking for. Itīs in pieces but itīs all there.
Have had plans to make a repop myself but ...you know....time!!?
I planned to make an "open" mold and make it from there. Well that is what I figured out laying there awake at nights trying to solve the lowlight bulkhead problem.
I wonder how they were made in the firts place. They definitly seem much more fragile than the floormats
What is your plan?
Colors?... They came in different colors. |
jonas, good lad, hope you & doug can get together on this one....
they get super fragile
v2 of the mat colours list:
'Grey' mats: Toucan Black Coupe, Cognac Coupe, Cardinal Red Coupe, Dolphin Blue Coupe
'Beige' mats: Brilliant Red Coupe, Graphite Silver Cab, Bernina Cab
'Green' mats: Aero Silver Coupe, Bambus Coupe
the Beige mats do look really olivey
the Grey is quite a light grey
udo - ref the diagram - we're looking at part 1, and hopefully part 4 & 5
part 1: 141 863 021 - 'Trimming - Front panel (rubber) from body No. 3761'
part 4: 141 863 071 A - 'Mat - Side member, left (rubber)'
part 5: 141 863 072 A - 'Mat - Side member, right (rubber)'
parts 4 & 5 are so simple its unbelievable
made from a flat piece of rubber mat, with the bubble texture (like the tunnel mat) all over, no special edges
141 863 021 is the bad boy tho' - who can get one to dougie/get repros made?
(doug - part 6 - the 'Fixing Strip' is your Apost trim clamping strip)
got some cool detailed pics of the UK Bernina Cab's og interior (currently out of the car) today - mats/door panels/seats/carpet/hood bag (never even been on the car!!! as new! still heavily creased from being folded!)/etc etc
will give a good idea of what a 'correct' Bernina interior looks like
pics to go on lowlight.uk soon! _________________ -StockRocks- |
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Jonas Burman2 Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2004 Posts: 41
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 1:43 am Post subject: |
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141 863 021 is the bad boy tho' - who can get one to dougie/get repros made?
Thanks!.
Not to talk about the size of what that mold is going to be...nothing you put
under your bed
Like I said...I have had my plans doing an "open mold" in fiberglass.
I am sure that would work.
But if someone more "proffessional" in this matter is willing to try I am glad to help...Lets try to solve this mystery together once and for all!!! |
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RockStock Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3924 Location: England
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:20 am Post subject: |
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i have heard about a guy in France who has attempted to make one
i believe he made it in 3 sections
left, middle, right
guess this would make it easier (you might get all 3 moulds under your bed then jonas) but as ever it would be top to get a spot on accurate reproduction _________________ -StockRocks- |
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Broadacus Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2003 Posts: 535 Location: Manchester. ENGLAND, UK
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 4:37 am Post subject: Books on Lowlight production |
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[quote] This is evidence why I don't consider any sort of "Model Year," but I won't discuss that topic any further on this forum ... you can read about it when my book comes out.
I cannot wait from a book to explain the early production of the Lowlight Karmann Ghia. Both Richard Troy and Dave Ruby have enough information stored away to produce a fantastic book, but when are the Lowlight owners of this world going to see it???
P.S. If you see my rubber mats up close, they look more green than grey. I have taken pictures of Lars car at Bad Camburg, my rubber mats look a differnt colour.
Lars also owns a very nice Cognac lowlight ( at the 50th meeting in Germany, last summer) the interior is the same as mine. _________________ 1957 Rometsch Beeskow
1963 Karmann Ghia Convertible RHD
View my rare literature For Sale.
Last edited by Broadacus on Mon Feb 13, 2006 12:15 am; edited 1 time in total |
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Buggeroff Argumentative Bastard
Joined: October 16, 2004 Posts: 1124 Location: Lake of the Ozarks, Missouri
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:30 am Post subject: |
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RockStock wrote: |
Jonas Burman2 wrote: |
I might have what you are looking for. Itīs in pieces but itīs all there.
Have had plans to make a repop myself but ...you know....time!!?
I planned to make an "open" mold and make it from there. Well that is what I figured out laying there awake at nights trying to solve the lowlight bulkhead problem.
I wonder how they were made in the firts place. They definitly seem much more fragile than the floormats
What is your plan?
Colors?... They came in different colors. |
jonas, good lad, hope you & doug can get together on this one....
they get super fragile
v2 of the mat colours list:
'Grey' mats: Toucan Black Coupe, Cognac Coupe, Cardinal Red Coupe, Dolphin Blue Coupe
'Beige' mats: Brilliant Red Coupe, Graphite Silver Cab, Bernina Cab
'Green' mats: Aero Silver Coupe, Bambus Coupe
the Beige mats do look really olivey
the Grey is quite a light grey
udo - ref the diagram - we're looking at part 1, and hopefully part 4 & 5
part 1: 141 863 021 - 'Trimming - Front panel (rubber) from body No. 3761'
part 4: 141 863 071 A - 'Mat - Side member, left (rubber)'
part 5: 141 863 072 A - 'Mat - Side member, right (rubber)'
parts 4 & 5 are so simple its unbelievable
made from a flat piece of rubber mat, with the bubble texture (like the tunnel mat) all over, no special edges
141 863 021 is the bad boy tho' - who can get one to dougie/get repros made?
(doug - part 6 - the 'Fixing Strip' is your Apost trim clamping strip)
got some cool detailed pics of the UK Bernina Cab's og interior (currently out of the car) today - mats/door panels/seats/carpet/hood bag (never even been on the car!!! as new! still heavily creased from being folded!)/etc etc
will give a good idea of what a 'correct' Bernina interior looks like
pics to go on lowlight.uk soon! |
Trout Blue, Gazzelle Beige,Deep Brown,Deep Green and Black, all 56-57 colours, any clue as to the mat colour combo? I have only the upholstery colours listed for these model year cars, not sure if the mats would follow suit.
Chris. _________________ "Chris of the Ozarks"
Headlinerless 57 Ghia
Thread deleter extrordinaire. |
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Broadacus Samba Member
Joined: January 25, 2003 Posts: 535 Location: Manchester. ENGLAND, UK
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Posted: Sun Feb 12, 2006 8:38 am Post subject: |
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crtclff wrote: |
Trout Blue, Gazzelle Beige,Deep Brown,Deep Green and Black, all 56-57 colours, any clue as to the mat colour combo? I have only the upholstery colours listed for these model year cars, not sure if the mats would follow suit.
Chris. |
Deep Brown and Green were roof colors, I have never worked out why Karmann / Volkswagen list them in the Karmann Ghia parts Manual.
Anyone know the answer _________________ 1957 Rometsch Beeskow
1963 Karmann Ghia Convertible RHD
View my rare literature For Sale. |
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Keenan57 Samba Member
Joined: January 21, 2005 Posts: 28 Location: London
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:28 am Post subject: |
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Quote: |
v2 of the mat colours list:
'Grey' mats: Toucan Black Coupe, Cognac Coupe, Cardinal Red Coupe, Dolphin Blue Coupe
'Beige' mats: Brilliant Red Coupe, Graphite Silver Cab, Bernina Cab
'Green' mats: Aero Silver Coupe, Bambus Coupe
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Don't forget us humble Antelope Brown owners. My July '57 coupe has its original rubbers and they are a deepish brown in colour. |
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Douglas Denlinger Samba Member
Joined: May 23, 2003 Posts: 1381 Location: Arizona's version of the east coast
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 8:10 am Post subject: |
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Jonas
The only plan I have is to turn the mat over to my friend/customer who has the connections and let him have a go at it. I'm just the slave labor trying to get this car as close to OG as possible for a restoration.
Colors will be determined only when the mat becomes a reality.
If your interested in donating or selling the mat to the cause then pmail me we can work out the details, I'm sure we can make it worth your time and effort via money or the repoped mat, if it happens.
I just want to make it clear, I'm not promising that this will happen, I do not know what my friends connections are capable of producing. I however, had reproduced interiors for 55-64 deluxe buses that were well received and since sold out of most of the material. So, I have experience with reproductions, been restoring buses since 1986 and all around good guy . So I'm not going any where.
Thanks, I look forward to another challenge!
Douglas _________________ Transporter Restorations
Upholstery Haus
Active 23 Window Samba Collector/Restorer,since 1986 |
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Jonas Burman2 Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2004 Posts: 41
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 3:49 pm Post subject: |
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Hello Douglas.
Sounds great!..Ill send you a PM |
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RockStock Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3924 Location: England
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:32 pm Post subject: |
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Bulkhead Mat (Beige)
click to enlarge
mat has been converted for RHD, hence pic 2nd left shows dip switch & st column holes crudely filled
pic far right shows new st column hole crudely cut
OGR on a good day, similar condition _________________ -StockRocks- |
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RockStock Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3924 Location: England
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 4:47 pm Post subject: |
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Sill Mat ('Grey')
click pics to enlarge
detail - bubble effect all over, no special edges
Sill Mat onto Tunnel Mat
not quite ideal to make the Sill Mat from a Tunnel Mat, but you might just get away with it - inner edges are covered by the central Floor Mats _________________ -StockRocks- |
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coolairX2 Samba Member
Joined: September 08, 2003 Posts: 478
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 6:38 pm Post subject: If this becomes a reality... |
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If you can make this happen then count me in for a grey set for a Cardinal cabrio.
This certainly will cost a bit to get a mold made with a large enough run to make it worth while. I would guess a few thousand or more if done commercially.
-Craig |
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Jonas Burman2 Samba Member
Joined: February 27, 2004 Posts: 41
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Posted: Mon Feb 13, 2006 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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Great pics Chris!...that one is fresch compared to what I have.
Have one with the same color. THAT is a puzzle!...the other green/grey one is more like the one in your pics...But dryer!. |
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RockStock Samba Member
Joined: November 26, 2004 Posts: 3924 Location: England
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Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2006 4:59 pm Post subject: |
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craig, i think the og mat colour for the Cardinal Red Cab was Beige
a little strange as the mats for the Cardinal Red Coupe is listed as Grey, according to my chart
i now think the Bernina cabs mats were Grey, not Beige
for the Cabs, the general pattern seems that the mat colour matches the headlining colour (grey or beige) matches the glovebox interior colour
the exception is probably with the green mat...
i do not have a mat colour list for the 56/7 Ghia Coupes
someone else may have?
or work in progress.... _________________ -StockRocks- |
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