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LOWLIGHT FLOOR MATS... THE SOLUTION!
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RockStock
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 10:40 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

I guess we need to thrash out this floormat pebble/smooth edge debate.
>Confirm the pebble edge version was available 58/9.
>Was the pebble edge version available in 56/7?
>Were 56/7 floormats only available in black?

Some pictures:

Beige [brown/BN] original floormat set that I have
Smooth edge. Make is Phoenix. Believed to be from a 58/9 Coupe.

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Beige [brown/BN] original floormats
Smooth edge. Make unknown. In BBTs Pearl White 59 Cab.

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Qs to Luis:
What floor mats did you use as your template? Year car from? Mat manufacturer (Fisco)?
Do the repros carry the makers name? I hope so.
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aerosilver
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:15 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Fisco floor mats, black, smooth edges. Correct (I believe) for 56-57.

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Phoenix (I believe) were 58-59, smooth or pebbled? Don't know as we have seen examples of both styles now..
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lajs57 Premium Member
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:22 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

The original mats I have were made by PHOENIX:

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aerosilver
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:34 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Two examples of the 56-57 style, black mats, coloured bulkhead and sill mats.
Both from original cars, black 56,and Pelican red 57.

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RockStock
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:39 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

^looking likely that 56/7 cars had black floormats then

Notice how the vents are not colour coded to the mats (staying body colour) on 56/7 cars
On 58/9 cars, the vent area was colour coded to the mats...
Exact date of this revision unknown...

I prefer the font on the Phoenix mats!
Those Fisco ones are mint

lajs57 wrote:
The original mats I have were made by PHOENIX:

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Do you know what year car they are from?
Got a hunch pebbled floormats might be post-59/60...
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:53 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Great information!

I will make the option to have Black (BK) Floor Mats available for any of the color codes.

New Request Format:

LLx-cc BKFM RHD, where:

x = 8(Complete), 7(All Floor), 4(Floor), 2(Sills) or 1(Front/Bulkhead)

cc = BN(Brown/Beige), GY(Gray), GN(Green) or BK(Black)

Add BKFM if you want the 4 Floor Mats Black

Add RHD for Right Hand Drive cars
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aerosilver
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:02 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Phoenix mats, same colour as bulkhead and sill mats.
Both from original cars with the later style interior, Cognac and Aerosilver.
Appear to be smooth edged.

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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Luis,
Sorry to be such a pain, but in light of the recent info, I will need Brown bulkhead mat. With black floor mats.
I won't change it again.
Thanks,
Dan
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

No worries!

I am planning to do complete orders at once, for perfect color match. Before making them, I will contact the backer to confirm order details.

Luis
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sputnick60
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

My order should be updated from this...
sputnick60 - LL8-XX RHD
to this
sputnick60 - LL4-BK RHD
pebble edge is ok for me since Pheonix is the supplier of the LHD set that came wirh my car

Nicholas
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swanlakers
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 5:13 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Sign me up for a grey set
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MJMarkham
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 17, 2018 6:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

depending on the total cost, I would need a complete set
if i recall correctly the Cognac had gray mats...


LL8-GY


Thanks
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aerosilver
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:55 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Nice mats Jonas! Smooth edge brown Phoenix mats from a Brilliant red '59.

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RockStock
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:22 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

^nice!

Small difference, but the 56/57 drivers mat looks to have a different shaped area around the pedals

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to the 58/59 drivers mat

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Pebbled mat, which I think is 60s, differs again in that it has an outline to the ribs. Same pedal area shape as 58/59.

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No outline on the smooth floormats (Fisco or Phoenix). Ribs fade out.

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Current evidence is pointing towards lowlight floormats being smooth.

Can anyone else chime in with pictures of original lowlight mats?
Anyone have pebbled floormats which they know to be original to their lowlight?
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RockStock
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:52 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Maybe I'm getting distracted. I'm thinking the main focus should be on getting that incredible repro bulkhead mat brought to market.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 8:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

I don't have any real close up photos but all that I can find look smooth around the edges.
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PostPosted: Wed Apr 18, 2018 11:11 pm    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

RockStock wrote:
^nice!

Small difference, but the 56/57 drivers mat looks to have a different shaped area around the pedals

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to the 58/59 drivers mat

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Pt?


Roller pedal vs flat pedal.. 56-57 vs 58 on


I'm sure Ghia owners will be happy with whatever style Luis makes, smooth or pebbled. Good to see someone stepping up and making the full set of mats finally
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Burman
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 1:53 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Seriously I think the pebbled edged floor mats "get together" better with the bulkhead-mat-design than the flat edged ones (even if its a 60:s thing)
Same design sort of....

Cheers/Jonas
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clarkare
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 3:29 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Could I please change my order from

clarkare - LL8-XX RHD to

Clarkare - LL4 BK RHD

Many thanks
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 19, 2018 11:23 am    Post subject: Re: Lowlight floor mats....possible reproduction source Reply with quote

Hello Karmann Ghia lovers,

I would like to summarize the basic information regarding Low Light Karmann Ghia Mats. I know that for many of you this won't be nothing new, I hope it will help some of you. Please correct me if necessary, Im aware that I may not be 100% correct!

KARMANN GHIA VWs were made from 1955 to 1974. The early cars are called LOW LIGHT KGs because regulations forced VW to increase the height from the floor to the edge of the headlights a couple of centimeters (about an inch). This change was implemented for the Karmann Ghia Model 1960, that started production in August 1959 from chassis number 2 528 668.

During the first 4-year Low Light period, there were A LOT of changes for many components, may be more that all the changes after the model 60 until 1974! Some changes lasted days or weeks before there was a new change! This was because a lot of hand assembly took place and VW had different sources for many parts.

Regarding the Low Light floor mats and front and floor carpets, we can say that there were two main eras: The first one used carpet with rubber inserts for the front bulkhead section and sills areas and rubber floor mats. The second era used all rubber mats, including the floor mats, the sill mats, the tunnel mat and the front bulkhead mat. The different years Owner's Books show this changes with good detail in the first picture for those years:

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August 55

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July 56

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January 57

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January 58

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April 59

Color mats were available for the different car color options. An important note is that ALL the mats were black in the rear side and colored in the top side, as there were made with two rubber layers. We know now that there were cars with the 4 floor mats in Black and the rest in color and cars with all mats in color. For those years, the available colors were: Green, Brown, Gray and Black.

We can confirm at list two brands that manufactured the rubber mats: Phoenix and Fisco.

From original samples we know that there were different styles, basically mats with strips on a flat background and mats with strips surrounded by a border and the characteristic VW pebble pattern in the edges. In the case of the front bulkhead mat, strips sections were always surrounded by a border and the characteristic VW pebble pattern.

The shapes and size for Low Light mats are very close to each other and any of them can FIT any Low Light car, as the holding points were in the same location. Early Ghias have the heather vents closer to the front instead of close to the doors. I tough that the single piece bulkhead mas was never made for those early cars, until few days ago, when I saw this pictures from Andy914-6:

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That means that one of the manufactures (or a person?) made the one piece bulkhead available for early Low Lights, as the vent close to the door was introduced before the one piece bulkhead!


It is important to notice that after August of 1959, the passenger mat was completely different, because the model 60 added a foot rest panel that was covered by the mat. The new part number for the Foot Support was 141 863 691, from chassis No. 2 528 668, when Model 60 cars started. Check this picture from the August 59 model 60 owners book:

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August 1959

Therefore, we can conclude that the floor mats for Low Light Karmann Ghias with and without the pebble patter are CORRECT ONLY for Low Lights, not for 60 or later model cars. I will think that they can also be used in 60 and latter models taking the Foot Support out, as it is a removable part. If anyone has done that, please share with the forum!

In my personal opinion, Phoenix started making mats without a border and without the pebble pattern and then upgraded the design to match the one-piece all-rubber front bulkhead mats, making this combination more pleasant and better able to contain liquid spills, as the open strip mats did not help on that.

I understand that there is a difference, and I also think that both styles are correct. Having one or the other does not take away any originality value. As a matter of fact, having a set of matching color mats with the original looks will increase the value of any Karmann Ghia!

As it stands now, my plan is to reproduce the pebble style mats, as those are the samples I have to create the molds!

I'll post the updated backers list shortly, working with requests figures now, expect pricing tomorrow!


Last edited by lajs57 on Thu May 03, 2018 10:14 pm; edited 2 times in total
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