Hello! Log in or Register   |  Help  |  Donate  |  Buy Shirts  See all banner ads | Advertise on TheSamba.com  
TheSamba.com
 
Is your van SAFE?
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Forum Index -> Vanagon Share: Facebook Twitter
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.
Print View
Quick sort: Show newest posts on top | Show oldest posts on top View previous topic :: View next topic  
Author Message
DAIZEE
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
DAIZEE is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 6:48 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

If you think it is unsafe, why drive it. Driver's choice. I feel quite a bit of paranoia in this thread. All the negative thoughts. Rather than talk about how unsafe you feel it is then get rid of it.

I feel quite safe, safer than any car I've driven (and I've had a lot). So very much depends on the driver's abilities, knowledge, experience and attitude. Yes I do drive defensively but I'd say I'm a fairly aggressive driver. That keeps me in the safety zone. I can only be observant of others, I can't control their actions. Today more and more driver's should not be driving. You wonder how they got their licenses (that's another story). If I observe anyone like that then I get the heck away from them even if I have to speed up to get out of their area.

You can't be a passive driver as soon many are. Then there are the timid drivers. IMHO passive, timid, slow, uncertain drivers in any vehicle are the cause of accidents in a lot of the cases.

If your vanagon is in current up to date status for the kind of engine et al it carries and you are a competant involved driver then the danger is elsewhere. Elsewhere you can not control, you can only be aware.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
GBA 88West LA
Samba Member


Joined: September 04, 2008
Posts: 1278
Location: New Hampshire
GBA 88West LA is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 7:55 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

definatley safe in regards to accidents, & just as safe in regards to freak mishaps....ive been in a few accidents with vanagons and one with a bay and was pleasantly suprised how well the vehicles protected its human cargo...only prob is.. where as you can get away with repairing other vehs these usually end up totaled Crying or Very sad
_________________
88 Westy GL Vanaru 07 2.5 EJ25/AA Trans/oiling plates, 1.14 3rd-.77-4th..solar powered cabin
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Gallery Classifieds Feedback
danfromsyr
Samba Member


Joined: March 01, 2004
Posts: 13173
Location: Syracuse, NY
danfromsyr is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 8:35 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

I don't know,, if you feel any vehicle is safe enough to let your gaurd down your already half way to the hospital.

go to an Salvage auction yard and take a look at the multitudes of damaged cars & SUVs they get really gnarly and well still don't protect passangers as well as anyone would really like in the variety of collisions probable

drive like everyone is out to hit you, because they are.

1st 2 rules of the road
#1 Don't hit anybody it's not cool.
#2 don't let anyone hit you, it's not fun
#3 try to obey the rest of the traffic rules
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Visit poster's website Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 12347
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Thu Jun 24, 2010 11:58 am    Post subject: Reply with quote

My favorite example of how safe these are:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175672&highlight=crash
_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Classicvibe
Samba Member


Joined: August 03, 2009
Posts: 737
Location: Salt Lake City
Classicvibe is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 10:59 am    Post subject: Re: Is your van SAFE? Reply with quote

wbx wrote:
wbx wrote:
Personally, i think vanagons are not very safe at all in terms of crash protection - for exactly what you are concerned about. No crumple zone.


Digging up an old thread here (linked to from a much later thread)... FWIW, the samba has largely changed my mind on this. After seeing some of the unfortunate crash results of people's loved vans, I am amazed at how well they protect the occupants. Those german engineers really did their due diligence to make a relatively short front end as safe and effective as possible - and the real life photos and stories here are a true testament to that.

Be safe,
-Damon


Your original comments are similar to what I have been considering for some time, and I think they are sound (about the crunch zone, and using other cars for this). From the accident photos I have seen, the Vanagon is dispensing the frontal impact energy in a different way (since there is no crunch zone) either through the van or as you mentioned, through the other car. Vanagon vs. Vanagon would be an interesting crash. If I weren't in $20k on mine I would donate it for this crash (yes, I am a bit frustrated with the van right now).
_________________
On a mission, the destination is just an excuse.

Syncro Solstice 2019...you goin?

1986.5 Wolfsburg Syncro Westfalia Poptop Weekender
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
maximan1
Samba Member


Joined: January 07, 2008
Posts: 1354
Location: Anaheim, California
maximan1 is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:08 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

ncwesty wrote:
So here is my two cents. They really aren't that safe. I was involved in a head on collision in a 69 splitty and busted my foot up pretty bad. It was wedged between the floorboard and the front of the bus(what was left of It). Thank god I didn't have my seatbelt on. I watched the whole thing happen and was able to jump up a bit(I was the passenger) and save the rest of my legs. .This has not and will not stop me from driving my van(84westy).. Basically drive safe and watch out for all the other crazies.

Smile Mike


I know this post is old, but they didn't make splitties in '69.
_________________
1978 Transporter, 2.0L FI
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DAIZEE
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
DAIZEE is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 3:00 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

This is a non scientific reply but "they don't make vehicles like they used to" is somewhat relative. In my humble opinion the Vanagons are made of much stronger materials than the newer vehicles. In head on collisions isn't it the engine that usually does the most damage. I think the frames are much more solid than newer models.

Steel was steel back in the old days, steel today is not the same pure steel in days gone by.

Any vehicle is unsafe. Driver's cause accidents, not vehicles. I feel quite safe and comfortable and definitely feel like I have more benefits driving my 83.5 Vanagon than I do my 98 Toyota Tercel.

Due Diligent Driving and knowing what is going on all around you!!
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
jeffklein
Samba Member


Joined: August 05, 2009
Posts: 132
Location: Rochester, NY
jeffklein is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:36 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

maximan1 wrote:
ncwesty wrote:
So here is my two cents. They really aren't that safe. I was involved in a head on collision in a 69 splitty and busted my foot up pretty bad. It was wedged between the floorboard and the front of the bus(what was left of It). Thank god I didn't have my seatbelt on. I watched the whole thing happen and was able to jump up a bit(I was the passenger) and save the rest of my legs. .This has not and will not stop me from driving my van(84westy).. Basically drive safe and watch out for all the other crazies.

Smile Mike


I know this post is old, but they didn't make splitties in '69.


That was written 4 1/2 years ago. LOL. I think the statute of limitations on letting him know he was incorrect ran out a LONG time ago.

I just think it's funny that WBX dug this thread out of 2006 simply to let us know that he changed his opinion in the last 4 years and everything that was discussed then is totally being re-hashed now.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Classifieds Feedback
strawhouse
Samba Member


Joined: May 19, 2008
Posts: 317
Location: Muskoka, Ontario Canada
strawhouse is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:51 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

I have crashed a motorcycle before in the rain and slid across the road and into a field, I walked away from it and I actually thought it was fun. A small change in the dynamics of the crash can change the out come in a second. You are at risk in anything you drive.
_________________
Pacifist with a gun
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sheesh
Samba Member


Joined: October 18, 2007
Posts: 394
Location: New Pine Creek, Orygun
Sheesh is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 4:53 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Aside from defensive driving and safety, I think if you buy a 30 year old rig that hasn't been worked on in years/decades it is unsafe. When first purchased our van was unsafe.

Like many purchasers, fuel lines were only the first items needing replacement. Unlike many purchasers, we fully expected to put money into the van rather than rely on its "karma".

Now that I have put $10K into parts (including a recent transmission), our van is far more safe.

However, even with all these new parts, I must confess I feel that our van is not that reliable and from this feel it is less safe.

Maybe it is because everything is so new, less than 10K miles since purchase three years ago, and we have a family of 5.

With more use, perhaps I'll feel differently.
_________________
1982 Westy, 2.0L AC CA emissions
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
randywebb
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
randywebb is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

actually, there are new high strength steels today - partly b/c of pressure on the steel manfs. from Alcoa and other Al companies

some high performance cars use these steels - I know the new Porsches do
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sir Sam
Samba Member


Joined: July 19, 2009
Posts: 1667
Location: Fort Collins Colorado!
Sir Sam is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:09 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

DAIZEE wrote:
In my humble opinion the Vanagons are made of much stronger materials than the newer vehicles.............Steel was steel back in the old days, steel today is not the same pure steel in days gone by.


Honestly, I think your completely wrong here. The metal in the vans unibody is soft compared to modern vehicles.

Very recently there have been great advances, vehicles designed and made in the last ten years use high strength steels capable of absorbing more energy than older steels. These steels are stronger than any used in the past and have been able to improve the safety of vehicles while also reducing the weight. One of the reasons aluminum bodies have made an inroads for reducing weight of vehicles is that these new high strength steels have made the vehicles lighter, stronger, and cheaper than using aluminum.

I LOVED drilling out the spot welds on the vanagon because the old steel was so soft it was like cutting butter, in comparison working on newer vehicles is like trying to to cut down a tree with a butter knife.

Now that being said, I'm saying I don't think the vanagon is safe, I'm just saying that modern steels are leaps and bounds better than what was used in the van 30 years ago. Just think of how safe and rigid a vanagon made with new high strength steels would be!
_________________
'91 Carat Westy

87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Sir Sam
Samba Member


Joined: July 19, 2009
Posts: 1667
Location: Fort Collins Colorado!
Sir Sam is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:10 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randywebb wrote:
actually, there are new high strength steels today - partly b/c of pressure on the steel manfs. from Alcoa and other Al companies

some high performance cars use these steels - I know the new Porsches do


Chrysler uses them in all sorts of vehicles, they are quite common place in fact.
_________________
'91 Carat Westy

87' Syncro + '87 Westy conversion coming soon
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Visit poster's website AIM Address Gallery Classifieds Feedback
DAIZEE
Samba Member


Joined: January 26, 2010
Posts: 7552
Location: Greater Toronto Area Ontario West Side
DAIZEE is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 5:11 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Well then I'm not uptodate on steel. Last time I had any involvement with it, it was being poorly manufactured off shore from recycled steel. There was a period. Thanks for bringing me up to date.
_________________
'09 2.5L Jetta 5 cylinder, 5 spd, super turbo, see thread in H2O Cooled Jetta, etc...
83.5 Vanagon L Riviera Model with 98 1.9L TD AAZ 4 speed Daily Driver 3 out of 4 seasons (sold)
84 Vanagon GL Wolfsburg Westy WBX 4 speed (sold)
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Send e-mail Facebook Gallery Classifieds Feedback
delta-vanagon
Samba Member


Joined: October 06, 2008
Posts: 144
Location: Delta, OH
delta-vanagon is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:38 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Sheesh wrote
Quote:
However, even with all these new parts, I must confess I feel that our van is not that reliable and from this feel it is less safe.

Maybe it is because everything is so new, less than 10K miles since purchase three years ago, and we have a family of 5.

With more use, perhaps I'll feel differently.


I think the reason I love the Samba is that I have learned how to make my 24year old van more reliable and safer. I found out from here problems to look for, what those odd sounds are, trouble areas to focus on, and a lot of cool ideas to make my van more fun to drive. My 86 GL has a Bostig conversion with over 25k on it since May 2009 and I feel that it is extremely reliable now. Of course since I bought the van I have new fuel lines, new brakes, proper tires, new Bilstines, and of course a 2003 motor with just over 50k miles.

From seeing the crash tests and real world accident photos and stories here I am confident that my Vanagon will protect me as well or better than the Dodge Caravan my wife had before. I don't expect to do well if I run into a fully loaded dump truck, but I don't expect that from any car I have every owned.

The Samba gives me the knowledge and confidence to drive my 24 year old Vangon with my 4 kids, my wife, my 6 month old grandson, and anyone else on any trip we need to go on.
_________________
86 GL Bostig & 89 Wolfsburg
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
VisPacem
Samba Member


Joined: July 15, 2007
Posts: 1143
Location: Las Vegas
VisPacem is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 8:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

Is your van SAFE?


No ..................... Laughing

Dancing Dancing

Edited :

This one is not safe either Twisted Evil

http://www.myvideo.de/watch/4674048/Car_Crash_Vehicle_Barrier_Test_Kinetic_Energy_5_5_MILLION
_________________
LG aka VisPacemPB, *The* party Pooper

No Regrets (Nothing to do with Vanagons)


Last edited by VisPacem on Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:11 pm; edited 1 time in total
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
madspaniard
Samba Member


Joined: August 18, 2008
Posts: 3795
Location: Alameda, CA
madspaniard is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:06 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randywebb wrote:
how many of you have replaced the 25+ year old seatbelts??


I did, all around, almost first thing I did when I bought the westy
_________________
1991 Westy auto w/ Peloquin TBD

"The only difference between me and a madman is that I'm not mad” - Salvador Dali
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
randywebb
Samba Member


Joined: February 15, 2005
Posts: 3815
Location: Greater Metropolitan Nimrod, Orygun
randywebb is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:17 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

zehr gut on the seat belts!

other safety related things to do are to replace the rubber brake hoses every 10, 15 or 20 years

the fuel lines - in case you can't run away from your own private burning man fest fast enuff

and to check out the rest of the braking system periodically

other than that, you just have to realize that the vehicle is far safer than a Bay window or Splittie but far less safe than a new MB, Volvo, BMW etc.
_________________
1986 2.1L Westy 2wd Auto Trans.
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
PDXWesty
Samba Member


Joined: April 11, 2006
Posts: 5767
Location: Portland OR
PDXWesty is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 9:57 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

randywebb wrote:
but far less safe than a new MB, Volvo, BMW etc.


I for one (from very personal experience) would have to take exception to that statement.
_________________
89 Westy 2.1 Auto
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
dobryan
Samba Member


Joined: March 24, 2006
Posts: 12347
Location: Brookeville, MD
dobryan is offline 

PostPosted: Fri Jun 25, 2010 11:14 pm    Post subject: Reply with quote

PDXWesty wrote:
randywebb wrote:
but far less safe than a new MB, Volvo, BMW etc.


I for one (from very personal experience) would have to take exception to that statement.


PDXWesty would know for sure. I dare anyone to compare an actual real world crash to this. See this link.

dobryan wrote:
My favorite example of how safe these are:

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=175672&highlight=crash

_________________
Dave O
'87 Westy w/ 2002 Subaru EJ25 and Peloquin TBD

"To travel hopefully is a better thing than to arrive." Robert Louis Stevenson

Join the Vanagon Rescue Squad on the VanAlert app.
http://vanalert.com/

MD>Canada>AK>WA>OR>CA>AZ>UT>WY>SD
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=620646

Building a bus for travel in Europe
https://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=695371
Back to top
View user's profile Send private message Gallery Classifieds Feedback
Display posts from previous:   
This topic is locked: you cannot edit posts or make replies.    Forum Index -> Vanagon All times are Mountain Standard Time/Pacific Daylight Savings Time
Page: Previous  1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7  Next
Page 3 of 7

 
Jump to:  
You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot vote in polls in this forum

About | Help! | Advertise | Donate | Premium Membership | Privacy/Terms of Use | Contact Us | Site Map
Copyright © 1996-2020, Everett Barnes. All Rights Reserved.
Not affiliated with or sponsored by Volkswagen of America | Forum powered by phpBB