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MalibuLX3
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2005
Posts: 821
Location: Rochester, MI
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 Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:19 pm Post subject: |
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Has anyone had any luck buying the Hankook RA08 tires locally? Everywhere I call no one carries them and I can't even order them. Is my only option Bus Depot for the Hankook's??? 
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1978 Westfalia |
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steponmebbbboom
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2004
Posts: 6390
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:31 pm Post subject: |
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Get in touch with the manufacturer and find out who the local distributors are. Google is your friend.
No sense trying to climb the tree from the top down. |
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Karl
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2001
Posts: 6170
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
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| Posted: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:53 pm Post subject: |
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| jberger wrote: |
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| If you can't dazzle them with brillance, then buffalo them with bullshit. |
I resemble that remark 
How about the Cooper Weather Master 1521lbs per
78 Westy GVWR for the front is 2227 lbs. and the rear is 2800 lbs. So, "S4.2.2.3 (a) For vehicles equipped with P-metric tires, the vehicle
normal load on the tire shall be no greater than the value of 94 percent
of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended
cold inflation pressure for that tire. " the 1521 more than meets the requirement. Check your facts before you call bull shit on me, looks to me that the spec is 94%, and the loads I am talking about are for a late model westy, aren't the passenger models sprung softly with lower GVWRs?
By the way, I run Yoko Y356D with a 1850lb rating. |
If you are talking about the Cooper Weather Master 205/70R14 at 1521 lbs. then you are still talking about a Passenger tire:
http://www.coopertires.com/us/en/ProductDetails.as...esAndSpecs
Lets do the math again: 185R14 reinforced sidewall [if you can find one] is 1540 lbs. at 100% of the rating. Does not matter if it is a Michelin XZX reinforced sidewall that was then replaced by the Michelin MX reinforced sidewall; or the Continental CS-21 reinforced sidewall; or the Kleiber reinforced sidewall. They are all rated at 1540 lbs.
So now you have your Cooper passenger tire rated at 1521 lbs. and you have to divide it by 1.10 and you have 1383 lbs......
What math are you using??
That page I posted is from the 1978 bus owners manual, NOT the Westy manual. Page 51 here: http://www.conservatory.com/vw/manuals_nyx/78Type2.html
Re-read the bottom left corner:
"The original equipment tires on your vehicle conform to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards."
Read all the other tire posts. Count how many people that said "Wow, I replaced my passenger tires with the correct tires and I cannot believe how well the bus handles and the sidewinds don't affect me anymore" and "I should have done this years ago" etc.
Not bullshit, just facts that I can backup in print. Here is page 51 again:
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The Sage
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2005
Posts: 2470
Location: Traverse City
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 9:29 am Post subject: |
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| Karl wrote: |
| jberger wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you can't dazzle them with brillance, then buffalo them with bullshit. |
I resemble that remark
How about the Cooper Weather Master 1521lbs per
78 Westy GVWR for the front is 2227 lbs. and the rear is 2800 lbs. So, "S4.2.2.3 (a) For vehicles equipped with P-metric tires, the vehicle
normal load on the tire shall be no greater than the value of 94 percent
of the derated load rating at the vehicle manufacturer's recommended
cold inflation pressure for that tire. " the 1521 more than meets the requirement. Check your facts before you call bull shit on me, looks to me that the spec is 94%, and the loads I am talking about are for a late model westy, aren't the passenger models sprung softly with lower GVWRs?
By the way, I run Yoko Y356D with a 1850lb rating. |
If you are talking about the Cooper Weather Master 205/70R14 at 1521 lbs. then you are still talking about a Passenger tire:
http://www.coopertires.com/us/en/ProductDetails.as...esAndSpecs
Lets do the math again: 185R14 reinforced sidewall [if you can find one] is 1540 lbs. at 100% of the rating. Does not matter if it is a Michelin XZX reinforced sidewall that was then replaced by the Michelin MX reinforced sidewall; or the Continental CS-21 reinforced sidewall; or the Kleiber reinforced sidewall. They are all rated at 1540 lbs.
So now you have your Cooper passenger tire rated at 1521 lbs. and you have to divide it by 1.10 and you have 1383 lbs......
What math are you using??
That page I posted is from the 1978 bus owners manual, NOT the Westy manual. Page 51 here: http://www.conservatory.com/vw/manuals_nyx/78Type2.html
Re-read the bottom left corner:
"The original equipment tires on your vehicle conform to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards."
Read all the other tire posts. Count how many people that said "Wow, I replaced my passenger tires with the correct tires and I cannot believe how well the bus handles and the sidewinds don't affect me anymore" and "I should have done this years ago" etc.
Not bullshit, just facts that I can backup in print. Here is page 51 again:
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The spec you posted for passenger cars states 94% of the tires rating, even at the 110% rule the set of tires I posted (after searching for 1 minute) would be 18lbs off in the rear only. By the letter of that law we only need 94% as these are passenger vehicles.
Karl you need to lighten up, the manual states that the tires the vehicle came with meet the federal standards, it does not state that they are the only tires to do so.
When I bought my bus as a Transporter it had passenger tires and drove wonderfully. I changed to the 356D only when I installed my high top because I load the hell out of my bus.
Let's also remember that the manual was written 30 years ago or so and tire technologies have changed a little since then.
Keep calling me a bullshitter if it makes you feel better. |
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The Sage
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2005
Posts: 2470
Location: Traverse City
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 11:52 am Post subject: |
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My local tire store can not locate the Continential CR21 in their system. Can someone post the DOT number for this tire?
Also, what kind of price are we taking about?
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Randy in Maine
Samba Member
Joined: August 03, 2003
Posts: 34890
Location: The Beach
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Karl
Samba Member
Joined: January 29, 2001
Posts: 6170
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:33 pm Post subject: |
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[quote="jberger"]
| Karl wrote: |
| jberger wrote: |
| Quote: |
| If you can't dazzle them with brillance, then buffalo them with bullshit. |
What math are you using??
That page I posted is from the 1978 bus owners manual, NOT the Westy manual. Page 51 here: http://www.conservatory.com/vw/manuals_nyx/78Type2.html
Re-read the bottom left corner:
"The original equipment tires on your vehicle conform to all applicable Federal Motor Vehicle Safety Standards."
Read all the other tire posts. Count how many people that said "Wow, I replaced my passenger tires with the correct tires and I cannot believe how well the bus handles and the sidewinds don't affect me anymore" and "I should have done this years ago" etc.
Not bullshit, just facts that I can backup in print. Here is page 51 again:
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The spec you posted for passenger cars states 94% of the tires rating, even at the 110% rule the set of tires I posted (after searching for 1 minute) would be 18lbs off in the rear only. By the letter of that law we only need 94% as these are passenger vehicles.
Karl you need to lighten up, the manual states that the tires the vehicle came with meet the federal standards, it does not state that they are the only tires to do so.
Tire technologies have changed a little since then.
Keep calling me a bullshitter if it makes you feel better. |
Dude this is the last reply I am going to make to this thread.
You need to go to night school and take Math 101.
Where did you get 18 lbs from?????
1521 x 94% = 1430 lbs. THAT is the max load weight you can put on the tire. It HAS nothing whatsoever to do with standing weight in reference to GVRW. Max Load Weight is axle weight plus moving weight i.e. when you turn a corner or go around a curve. You need to take GVRW out of the formula, it is not the whole story.
MINIMUM max load weight for a bus is 1540 lbs. It is not a passenger vehicle. It is a multi-purpose vehicle at the least.
From the NHTSA website:
Maximum Load Rating
This number indicates the maximum load in kilograms and pounds that can be carried by the tire.
Key word is "carried".
What is the max pressure listed on your passenger tires? 35 psi?
If yes, do you run the recommended 40 psi in the rear?
From the NHTSA site again:
Maximum Permissible Inflation Pressure
This number is the greatest amount of air pressure that should ever be put in the tire under normal driving conditions
Tires have not really changed. Only the government has stepped in to make the ratings on the sidewall more accurate.
And no, I am not going to lighten up about this mis-information out there. Not when you can go to a tire store and ask to buy tires and the pimply faced kid goes out and sees that you have 185/75R14 Pep Boys tires and sells you the same size tire because that is what you have on it.
YOU as the customer need to educate yourselves about this and tell the kid what tires YOU want and need.
NOT bullshit, unless you don't value your life or others on the road. The Ford recall involved 14,400,000 Explorers because of 'tire experts'.
I am done. You guys can keep putting passenger car tires on your buses because jberger and Colin said it is OK. I am sure they have the insurance to back up their advice. |
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jberger
Samba Member
Joined: November 17, 2003
Posts: 2476
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 3:53 pm Post subject: |
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Dude this is the last reply I am going to make to this thread.
You need to go to night school and take Math 101.
Where did you get 18 lbs from?????
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My education level is just fine thanks. Re-read my post and you will see that using the 110% rule for MPV, trucks, buses (transit) the tires I listed are 18lbs short per tire on the rear per the specs. Take however a 7 passenger transporter the GVWR is what 68kg or 149.6lbs per passenger which = 1047.2lbs payload and falls under the 94% rule which is a 6% safety margin not 10%. Do you really want to start the center of gravity debate to see what the side loading of these vehicles is in a turn compared to say a Ford Bronco II (which by the way are registered as station wagons). If the tire fits you must acquit simple as that. As far as Ford and Firestone go, I guess you believe it had nothing to do with all the idiots out there driving around with under-inflated Firestones. Thank the maker you aren't going to post anymore as I grow tired of your pointless attacks, it isn't about how much of a Jack-ass I am but that people are free to interpret laws, not just follow things like bleating sheep. |
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The Sage
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2005
Posts: 2470
Location: Traverse City
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 4:01 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks Randy, I ordered them! It's so nice to talk about tires on the tire thread!
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Feel My Pain l Sage Ad World |
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orangekoi
Samba Member
Joined: February 10, 2004
Posts: 356
Location: Carlsbad
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| Posted: Wed Mar 22, 2006 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| MalibuLX3 wrote: |
| Has anyone had any luck buying the Hankook RA08 tires locally? Everywhere I call no one carries them and I can't even order them. Is my only option Bus Depot for the Hankook's??? |
http://www.hankooktireusa.com/dealerlocator.asp
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1971 Westfalia -- Daily Driver |
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mad mick
Samba Member
Joined: June 16, 2005
Posts: 93
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 5:28 am Post subject: |
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 This Is soooo tyring eh eh! ged It?tyring?  |
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MalibuLX3
Samba Member
Joined: October 02, 2005
Posts: 821
Location: Rochester, MI
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| orangekoi wrote: |
| MalibuLX3 wrote: |
| Has anyone had any luck buying the Hankook RA08 tires locally? Everywhere I call no one carries them and I can't even order them. Is my only option Bus Depot for the Hankook's??? |
http://www.hankooktireusa.com/dealerlocator.asp |
I tried all the dealers in my area and they say that the 185R14 is a metric tire and they don't carry it, and they couldn't order it. Are the tire guys in my area just lazy and don't really care about my tires, or is this right?
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1978 Westfalia |
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rsorak
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2005
Posts: 2005
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 10:16 am Post subject: |
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When i called my local Hankook dealer he said he'd be glad to order me 195R14 RA08's for 71.50 each....said they'd take 8-10 days tro arrive.
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Rick '71 Westfalia & '73 Thing |
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sailorkh
Samba Member
Joined: March 29, 2004
Posts: 288
Location: Alameda, Ca
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 1:15 pm Post subject: |
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| rsorak wrote: |
| When i called my local Hankook dealer he said he'd be glad to order me 195R14 RA08's for 71.50 each....said they'd take 8-10 days tro arrive. |
Bus Depot has them too, and I think the price is even less. I think the only trouble is that Ron can never keep them in stock long enough. But, I think the correct size is 185R14
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Kris
1971 Deluxe
1978 Westfalia |
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rsorak
Samba Member
Joined: March 07, 2005
Posts: 2005
Location: Memphis
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:07 pm Post subject: |
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I wanted 1 size bigger.
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Rick '71 Westfalia & '73 Thing |
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steponmebbbboom
Samba Member
Joined: May 01, 2004
Posts: 6390
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| Posted: Thu Mar 23, 2006 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| keep in mind that an 82 aspect ratio for a 195 width will result in a larger diameter tire than an 82 aspect ratio for a 185, which will throw your gearing and speedo off. |
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The Sage
Samba Member
Joined: December 10, 2005
Posts: 2470
Location: Traverse City
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nemobuscaptain
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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nemobuscaptain
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Joined: March 07, 2002
Posts: 3874
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| Posted: Mon Mar 27, 2006 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| My education level is just fine thanks. Re-read my post and you will see that using the 110% rule for MPV, trucks, buses (transit) the tires I listed are 18lbs short per tire on the rear per the specs. |
No, your education level is deficient. Don't play tire engineer, even if you did sleep at Holiday Inn last night. Dividing the car weight by 4 or even dividing it by axle weight (or gross axle weight) isn't the way tire specs are determined. If that were the case then Honda Civic's would come on motorcycle tires. Using your math, a Ford Explorer could get by with 12 inch tires spec'ed for 1400 lbs. We know how that went.
The engineers determined that a reinforced sidewall or commercial tire is necessary. No passenger tire has that. The tires that engineers spec'ed tires that had at least 1540 lbs in the 185SR14 reinforced tires (which would be almost 1700 lbs in a P-rated tire) or the 185R14C commercial tire that is rated for around 1800+ lbs (which would be well over 2000 lbs in a P-rated tire).
Wanna prove to me that your math is acceptable? Just get a tire manufacturer to recommend a P-rated tire with 1520 lb max pressure and a standard load sidewall.
However, even if you wanna persist with playing tire engineer and come up with your own specs regarding the tire's max weight spec, the manual is quite clear about the commercial/reinforced requirement. Bottom line: there are no P-rated passenger tires with a reinforced or commercial rating that the owner's manual and Bentley require.
(I won't bother trying to talk about COG and sidewalls. I could send you some info from tire blow out litigation, but I doubt you would read it. Your mind is made up already.)
I've never understood the desire to run substandard tires just to save $10-15 per tire. Of course, I've never understood trying to spending two days to hack a GM voltage regulator into an alternator in order to avoid buying a new VW one $28 or any of the rest of the foolishness that sometimes gets posted here. I think some people do hippyfixes just to pat themselves on the back at their ingenuity.
In my experience, the correct commercial tires are much stiffer and virtually eliminate swaying in the wind, assuming the rest of your suspension is acceptable. On the other hand, you can have a completely tight front end, but will still have wallowing if you are running P-tires.
Still wanna run P-rated passenger tires? Save a few dollars and take your chances. Just don't expect us to have much sympathy when you post about your blow out or complain about your bus changing lanes spontaneously when the wind blows or when a big rig passes.
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