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boundstaffpress
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:20 am    Post subject: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

I found two busses that hold some promise. One is a 72 with a fairly straight body and an unknown but broken engine. The other is a wrecked 75 with a what the owner claims is a 6 rib transmission and a free spinning complete engine. The 72 has rust through on the floorboard. I poked around a bit, and the body seems solid in the dog legs and rockers. I haven't had the opportunity to dig through the passenger or cargo area of either bus. Not sure of the rust condition inside. Engines are both a mystery so far. VIN on the 75 puts it 30 vehicles before fuel injection. The 75 has good glass all around except for the windshield.

I can weld, and don't mind doing some sheetmetal work, but I would prefer to repair something I can cover up like floors or structure. I have mechanical experience, and don't mind rebuilding one engine. I have access to a metal fabrication shop. I have mechanical support from my father who drove and repaired VWs through the 50s and 60s.

My goal is to work with my 4 children to have a drivable fun project that allows them to learn mechanical skills. I am not interested in creating a show car.

The price is $1800 for both. How good of a deal is this?
Can I recoup most or all of the price from parts from the wrecked bus so I can re-invest in the early bay.

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Peabody
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:37 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

72 is not an early bay. It's a bastard child of the two. Not to split hairs Embarassed

Anyway, $1800 is a good price. Between two type 4 engines and a 6 rib you've got most of your investment in parts. Only issue is that you'll find that many of the parts from the 75 will not work with your 72 (without modification) but a lot will. Beat him down on the price as best you can. Sell the engines and transmission and find a subaru with a manual trans and swap! Twisted Evil

In summary: Buy them and never look back.

EDIT: Also the 72 is a deluxe which is cool. And don't take the dude's word for the 6 rib. Get under there and count yourself. Get educated before you go. http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=143138
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Spike0180
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:38 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

Things to consider: you're looking at a lot of body work, probably a solid couple of months at least. Check to make sure the seals aren't all going to need replaced, it is an investment in its self. And the engine rebuild will be a bit pricey because it is a type 4 not a type 1 engine.

Pros: the vent Windows on the 75 are worth a few bucks, same with the bumpers, and if there are seats. And you may end up with a spair transmission and other bits from the seized drive train (potential money saved). Also I'm betting the other glass is worth something too. You probably won't get 1800, but you may have 1000 if you're patient.

Its a better starting point than I had.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

You could make up a lot of the $1800 by parting out the 75 for sure. It could take awhile but it's possible. If you have time and a place to store them both I say go for it.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:12 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

I think you should jump on the deal if the owner has titles and legit paperwork. There are lots of haters of the 72 model year but as it was mentioned, deluxe buses are a nice to have.
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Tcash
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

72 only list
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 12:56 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

The question I would be asking myself is, "with a wife and 4 children, how much time and money will I have for this project," and "exactly what do I expect this bus to be like when I am done?"

No one here can answer those questions but we can offer advise whether it is likely those two buses fit into the scenario you describe. Personally I would not be interested in either bus unless the rolled one has a complete 2.0 FI motor, and a late 091 trans which I would take out of it. The 72 will cost more than it is worth to restore if it is given to you and you have to find parts to put it back together. I know more people who failed trying to accomplish parting out buses like that then I know people who have succeeded - and the ones who failed did not have 4 children and a wife to look after. But - if you are looking for a three year project when the wife wants you out of the house then buy both, keep the 1972 and use parts from the 1975 to get it going. It will not be something you will complete in a short period of time. Your answers to what you expect from it will tell us whether the 72 can be put in that shape for the time and money you have.
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jmstu76
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 1:39 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

If the '75 has the original transaxle, it won't have a 6 rib in it
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 2:32 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

Having been there...bought one that needed a lot of work and one that didn't..l

DONT

here's why....

1. Expecting to get money back by selling parts will be tough. You can do it, but it's a lot of communication back and forth, post office runs, packing, shipping, etc etc... Just time!
2. Always plan a budget then add 50%
3. Assume you won't be able to use much of a non running engine and you will be safe. It's not running for a reason. Pistons, cylinders, heads...may be trashed..besides if youre going through the trouble why would you reinstall old components like that?
4. Time time time..,,how much are you going to put into it before the kids have had enough and lose interest.

I love both to my buses but if I didn't buy the running one I would have lost another year of fun. Find one with a solid engine that is cosmetically blah...you can drive it right away and do the fun stuff with the kids Smile
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boundstaffpress
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

Thanks all for the comments and information.

Spike0180 wrote:
Things to consider: you're looking at a lot of body work, probably a solid couple of months at least. Check to make sure the seals aren't all going to need replaced, it is an investment in its self.


I understand there will be time involved. It needs every window seal. I'm planning on 2-3 years before it is a daily driver. What body issues are you considering when you add up your months of time?

wcfvw69 wrote:
I think you should jump on the deal if the owner has titles and legit paperwork.


Neither has a title. I've done enough research to know the 75 was last registered in 1980. The 1972 VIN is clean, and doesn't come up on law enforcement records. Not sure if I will go through VT, or CO for the title.

SGKent wrote:
"Exactly what do I expect this bus to be like when I am done?"


My goal is a dry, drivable, reliable, semi-straight car for myself and my kids as they learn to drive. My oldest turned just turned 12. I am a high school art teacher, so money is always an object, so is time. I usually have more time than money. I've owned a variety of classic cars. Never show cars, always fun. I have yet to lose money when buying and selling. I like to restore function, with the idea that any non-stock changes can be reversible. I don't mind making do, but I don't like to ruin the value for future generations.

SGKent wrote:
The 72 will cost more than it is worth to restore.


If you were buying a bus project, would you just buy a running bus for 2-3 times this price? With a limited entry budget, I find few busses that offer more than this even at the $5-6K range. Most have endless bodywork to complete and/or still don't have healthy running engines.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 3:28 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

you be nuts if you are thinking of either of those as a daily driver without throwing lots of $$$$$$ into them. If you want a daily driver look for a 1970 or 1971 so the engine parts are easier to come by, and the engine is a lot less complex than a type 4 engine.
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orwell84
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 6:58 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

The daily driver requirement is a tough one. Would prefer a beater Honda Civic to get to school and pick the bus as a rolling restoration. Take your time. Enjoy the work. Enjoy especially weekend camping with the fam. Daily driver expectations put a real hot blowtorch on your neck for no good reason.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

with a family life the most expensive bus is a cheap project bus.
where do you wish to spend your time & money? late scattered nights/weekends in the garage with near equal $ at the end then buying a decent runner/driver to enjoy now and make the best early memories with family. even if it's just ice cream stands within a 20mi radius of home.

too many projects and families suffer from the best intentions.
for some a project like this is just how they want to spend their time.
question is, is that you.

trust me they'll get to learn mechanicals no matter what bus you buy Wink
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boundstaffpress
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 09, 2016 8:49 pm    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

I am understanding the money and time considerations. Yes, I would like to spend time having fun with a project, and I know that kids do grow tired of seemingly unending work. I will likely pursue something pre-1971. Slow and simple why I would rather build a VW instead of another Malibu or Nova.

What has me puzzled is the response that this bus couldn't be made into a daily driver. Or maybe what is suggested is that it wont be a daily driver without endless cash. Are type 4 engines so delicate and expensive that they are relegated to trailer queens and weekend campers? That doesn't seem right.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 12:21 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

I just read what you posted - not the replies - so I may be duplicating. At $1800 you can make a nice bus and recoup lots of the $1800 back in the spare parts you have. Is this a good deal? Hell yeah. A project that could pay for itself, duh.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 4:40 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

You have found your buses if you are really looking for an in depth project that will go on for years. Personally I would save up for another year and budget for a solid bus in the 10k range. And keep looking all the time and one in your price present range may come along. You and your children will still get plenty of mechanical experience just maintaining a 45 year old bus while getting to enjoy it.

Honestly, I would never buy a bus in that condition and try to make it into a daily driver. Money would be best spent on a bus that some one else has already spent a boat load of time and money on, then learn to keep it up and running.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 5:36 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

In my experience buying a bus that someone else has worked on is usually a huge pain in the ass. I enjoy every time I wrench on my unmolested 76 that has not run since 1998. No hacked wiring, bailing wire, 1/2 gas cap in the gas tank, welded heads, wall paper on the walls, duct tape, etc. Just pure stock German bliss. I'd chose that bus (that cost me next to nothing) over my 71 which I bought running and driving for much more any day.

They both need the same things. New rubber due to age of the 76 rubber and cheap Chinese rubber on the 71. Many, many parts are the same story. I believe that you come out on top with an un-hacked project bus than something someone else has become tired of working on.

There's no way I'd put my four kids in an early bay that someone else did all the work on. Who knows what corners were cut and how many "well, I'm just trying to get this thing going" thoughts were had when working on it. I'd much rather know that everything was done right. The safety upgrades on a late bay are also something you may want to consider.

I think there is value in spending more up front but in no way is it the best way. Here is how I would buy a bus if I was in it for the long haul:

In order of importance.

1. Minimal rust
2. As original as possible
3. Price
4. Cool factor
5. Mechanical condition

Best of luck to you.
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Spike0180
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:05 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

The body work time I was considering is a quick paint strip/sand (Fix a few weld patches in the best you can without warping everything) then a cheap spray of the paint. If you're good it'll look ok from 10-15 feet.

As for the type 4 engine, they are designed much better. Proper oil filter from factory, beefier components, built-in oil cooler, and increased cooling capacity. But with power and reliability comes price and rarities. That's the only downside. But I think more people are starting to use the type 4 and parts should become at least a little more available. But a full rebuild kit right now I think is around 3-5k.

It is a good idea to look into some stock busses on the samba though and check for stuff especially on the 72, because whoever made the comment that stock is much easier to deal with is right. I'm finding that out more and more as I get into my bus...

I forgot that's the one year only bus, which would be a pain. You would be best making a lot of your own stuff and not keeping it stock, which being a bit of an artist I'm sure you could do quite well. This is assuming that things like doors and decorative trim are doing fine.

All this being said, if I could go back I would have saved up and spent more on a bus that was dry and that someone had sorted out a lot of the engine issues for me. Or gone Subaru powered into a good solid bus with no engine. Mad
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 7:26 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

Spike0180 wrote:
Or gone Subaru powered into a good solid bus with no engine. Mad


Best option in my opinion. I'm considering selling my fuel injected 2.0 and six rib to fund a suby swap with subaru gears trans.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 10, 2016 8:36 am    Post subject: Re: Considering for purchase. Opinions wanted Reply with quote

The hard part here is the daily driver expectation. When I compare the amount of work I put into my 1971 to maintain it vs my 1977, the 1971 by far was a less time consuming car. I drove it 400,000 miles as a daily driver. One must understand that these buses were built at a time when people expected a car to last 100,000 miles or less. That is 5 years driving 20,000 miles a year. I love the extra power of the T4 but not the work. My Acura has 145,000 miles on it. The motor behaves like new. It will last 300,000 miles. By 143,000 miles my 71 bus motor had been out a dozen times and had been rebuilt twice. My 77 bus has 3,000 miles on it and every time I need to do something other than change the oil or check the timing I have to pull the motor. I think the OP needs to see the TCash bear video before he proceeds further.
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