1973 Bus valves

soloyosh · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:56 pm Post subject: 1973 Bus valves

So while I chew on our sunroof options, I am helping the boy with the engine.

It was running rough. Timing was fine. Carb working. Felt like it was running on 2 or 3 cylinders. Decided to check the valves.

One kept rising as I backed off the adjuster until it was quite a bit proud of its cylinder mate. Took the rocker shaft off and it’s about 3/8” proud at the stem. The retainer and spring spins free.

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Thought broken valve but I can’t pull it off.

Stretched valve? Wrong length valve?

Any other ideas?

Cheers
Brett and Aaron
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Brett (dad) and Aaron (son)

cmonSTART · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 12:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

Valve seat sunk. Probably time to pull the head and look at it.
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busdaddy · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 1:44 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

Probably?, definitely!, it could be a few different things, none of them good. And the rest are likely close behind.
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aeromech · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:03 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

The valve seats go bad.

This happens. Some guys go cheap and buy heads which fail after 30k miles or so. Building heads that last is a special process used by a couple shops in the USA
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soloyosh · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:31 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

Boy and I talked and we’re going to pull the head rather than the entire engine.

I’ll post what we find.
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Brett (dad) and Aaron (son)

aeromech · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:48 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

Mistake
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Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

crownline · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 2:54 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

Pull the engine it's not that hard. You need to do both sides not just 1 head plus re sealing everything and you might find other things that need looked at.
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1972 Bus 1700 cc Single Carb. But not a progressive.
Barelymuvin
Wish I still had the ones I got rid of.

"It"s got some dings and dents and neither of us is going to SEMA."(Update, I went to SEMA in 2019 but the Bus stayed home)
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Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

On a '73 you should be able to have the engine on the ground in about an hour and put it back in in less than two.

busdaddy · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:02 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

I'd choose to drop the engine over trying to do headwork in the bus, while it's out you can deal with other seals, clean things up and clean out the gas tank and change the vapor lines too.
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aeromech · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:09 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

The list grows longer but the alternative is that you’ll have an engine with misbalanced cylinders and probably a bunch of leaks too. If there were easy solutions we’d tell you
_________________
Lead Mechanic: San Diego Air and Space Museum
Licensed Airframe and Powerplant Mechanic
Licensed Pilot (Single engine Land)
Boeing 727,737-200-300-400,757,767
Airbus A319,320,321
DC9/MD80
BAe146
Fokker F28/F100
VW type 1 1962,63,65,69,72
VW Type 2 1971 (3 ea.) 1978, 1969
VW Jetta
VW Passat
Capable of leaping tall buildings in a single bound

busdaddy · Posted: Fri Apr 02, 2021 4:16 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

Well....., usually if a head is that beat down there's likely more worn out things ready to let go, do it now in the driveway, or do it later on the side of the road in the middle of nowhere in the pissing rain, you choose.
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P24p1 · Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:51 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

I pulled one of my heads the other day to install an insert for a stud, and I've also pulled the engine twice or thrice. I also own a 1973!

Honestly, I can confirm that it takes about the same amount of time.
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busdaddy · Posted: Sat Apr 03, 2021 3:59 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

I guess it depends on how bendy you are, a circus contortionist could easily pull it off, stiff older guys not so much...

But even if I could squeeze in there I'd still pull an engine on a new to me bus just for a snoop around to confirm everything is good to go, like I said previously, better in the driveway now than roadside later.
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Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
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Слава Україні!

Wildthings · Samba Member Joined: March 13, 2005 Posts: 50338

I really like to install a new clutch disc and pilot bearing plus a flywheel seal in any T2 that I buy, plus peen the galley plugs behind the flywheel and a few other things. You can't do any of these with the engine installed.

soloyosh · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 1:49 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

Looks like we are going to pull the engine next weekend. Only issue now is a stand as his brother is in the process of pulling the 351W out of his 69 Mach1 project.

You can see it behind the bus:

I have noticed quite a few "benchtop" air-cooled engine mounts vs. being on a stand. Any reason to go one way or the other?

Is there an adapter that works better with a type 4?
_________________
Brett (dad) and Aaron (son)

crownline · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 2:36 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

I must be old. I've never used a stand of any kind. I just put it on the bench and work from there. Boo hoo!

_________________
1972 Bus 1700 cc Single Carb. But not a progressive.
Barelymuvin
Wish I still had the ones I got rid of.

"It"s got some dings and dents and neither of us is going to SEMA."(Update, I went to SEMA in 2019 but the Bus stayed home)
[url=http://www.vw-mplate.com/mplate-8446.png]Click to view image[/URL]

busdaddy · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 4:20 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

I prefer the mounts that fit in the standard Harbor freight wheeled engine stand, you can roll the engine over as well as move the whole project while waiting for parts (or Mustang motors to get out of the way). Bench mount is nice if you are doing lots of them and have all your tools right there and lots of room for side jobs, or it's a multi year project that's more of a display then a job.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

soloyosh · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 5:22 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

busdaddy · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 6:15 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

That one looks good, avoid the cheapo EMPI trash most sellers like CIP try to pass off, especially if it also fits a bench mount. Bendy like a wet noodle, and the tube is too small for a standard engine stand, they barely hold up a type 1 shortblock, a fully dressed type 4 would scare me.
_________________
Rust NEVER sleeps and stock never goes out of style.

Please don't PM technical questions, ask your problem in public so everyone can play along. If you think it's too stupid post it here
Stop dead photo links! Post your photos to The Samba Gallery!

Слава Україні!

telford dorr · Posted: Mon Apr 05, 2021 11:23 pm Post subject: Re: 1973 Bus valves

Word to the wise: pop for the 4-armed unit instead of the 3-armed unit. The 4-arm can be modified to clear all the tin on a fully dressed engine, if needed.
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