Real Life Crash Test

[hellenic vanagon]

A "real life" crash test: with 72 km/h, the passenger car is demolished, the Vanagon, (early air cooled), ready for adventures.

Knalleffect (=bomb)

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The Syncro Heresy

[hellenic vanagon]

Vanagon T3 employs a unique "spider" construction in the front, which converts the horizontal forces to vertical, exactly as a tennis filet does.

You can see this here:

(Because the front doors are eliminated, the results are exaggerated).

Same concept here:

The # 2 crossbeam, has some degrees inclination to the vertical member.

Mercedes did it, after many years, to Smart:

This is one more Vanagon's safety secret.
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The Syncro Heresy

[hellenic vanagon]

And here another "real life" crash test, very well known to many.

Volvo 740 against Vanagon, 50-50 offset collision.

Results:

HIC (Head Injury Criterion) for driver:
Volvo: 3,868
VW: 155

Head Impact:
Volvo: 200 G
VW: 42 G

Chest impact
Volvo: 65 G
VW: 30 G

"The Caravelle (Vanagon) climbed on top of the Volvo and cut into the cabin. Conclusion was that the VW's rigid design "cannibalizes" the Volvos impact zones. The results below conclude that the volvo driver was killed instantly while the VW driver prolly suffered minor bumps and bruises."



http://www.dropgates.com/crash/
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[hellenic vanagon]

And here Volvo's people are trying to explain what happened:

"Volvo Page Edit

Liftarn, I am new to wikipedia edits so please excuse me if I have erred. I recently make a change to Volvo_cars to remove a statement regarding the C-pillar that I believe to be incorrect. You replaced it with "The Volvo 745 had some severe problems that could cause sever injuries in a frontal colission.[14]" Apart from the spelling mistakes, that too is an unsupportable conclusion from ref 14 (the Vanagon - Volvo 745 crash test). Please refer to the discussion page for my justification for the edit. Why did you undo my change? User:garlandw72.39.151.5 (talk) 00:08, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

You may fix the spelling if you want, but the facts are correct. Both about the C pillar and the rename from 740 to 940. The full ref is not avaoilable online as far as I have found. // Liftarn (talk)

Please clarify. Please explain how there is a problem with the Volvo 745 C-pillar based on the video images of the reference. In the images, the C-pillar is not damaged. The A-pillar is squashed right up to the B-pillar but that is NOT because of a faulty design; it is squashed because the Vanagon is high. Any vehicle will undergo an A-pillar deformation if the impact comes in at that height. I repeat, it is not a fault of the 745; it is merely a consequence of this particular accident. Since the images were posted on a Vanagon site, it appears that the point of the test is to show that the Vanagon is not quite the death trap that it first appears to be because the front structure is quite rigid and higher than a typical car. To prove the point, they crashed it into what was widely achnowledged to be one of the safest cars on the road at the time - the 745. They could have used a big Mersedes and have gotten the same result. This of course points to an important safety issue, the mismatch of vehicle heights, that deserves a full discussion given the number of SUVs and large trucks on the road these days and the push to smaller, greener passenger cars. But again, to finger the 745 as the issue is wrong. I am not disputing the fact that the 740 series became the 940 series; that is well known. Nor am I disputing that the 940 has some safety improvements over the 740 (SIPS for instance). I am quite familiar with the 745 and I have never heard of the C-pillar weakness that you claim. I also checked with the large collection of experienced people in the Volvo owners community at http://www.brickboard.com. They never heard of a C-pillar weakness. So please back up your claim that there are severe problems in a 745 that could cause severe injuries in a frontal collision. If you can't do that, then please remove that statement as per the spirit of Wikipedia. User:garlandw72.39.151.5 (talk) 11:58, 14 January 2008 (UTC)

The original source is a Folksam study that showed a weakness in the Volvo 745 design. // Liftarn (talk)"
(Spelling is theirs.)

Ιndustrial espionage!

Height mismatch is not an issue here, as it is proposed by Volvo's specialist, since the 2wd Vanagon, has the same fender height to an 740.
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The Syncro Heresy

[hellenic vanagon]

Real life: Mazda mpv against Vanagon. (Not mazda's driver good idea).

"Tuesday, December 4, 2007
No injuries in rollover crash

ERIC LINDBERG
DAILY SOUND STAFF WRITER

Firefighters raced to the intersection of Micheltorena and Laguna streets yesterday afternoon after receiving reports of a rollover crash that left one driver trapped in his car.
Upon arrival, fire crews found a Mazda MPV on its side with crushed glass strewn across the street, its driver seemingly unhurt but unable to climb out of the vehicle. After popping the back hatch, firefighters helped the man out of the Mazda.

Paramedics took him to Cottage Hospital as a precautionary measure. A Volkswagen Vanagon, its driver also unhurt, appeared to be the only other vehicle involved in the accident and sustained only minor front-end damage.
Several people who live in the neighborhood said they heard the crash just before 1:50 p.m. and called 911 immediately.
“The second we turned around, we saw that car just flying,” Kay Spencer said, pointing to the Mazda. “Your heart drops in your stomach. … When you see something like that, you automatically think somebody is hurt.”
Firefighters on the scene speculated the driver of the Mazda may have failed to see the Volkswagen while pulling into intersection from Laguna, the van hitting the MPV at its rear axle and spinning it onto its side. Police did not identify either driver and said the cause of the accident remains under investigation.
Debbie Iuele, who lives near the intersection, said while there haven’t been many accidents in that area, she frequently hears squealing brakes at night.
“I hear a lot of screeching, a lot of close calls,” she said.
Abby Rogers, a longtime Santa Barbara resident, said she sees accidents on De la Vina and Chapala streets on occasion, but rarely in that neighborhood.
“I’ve been walking here for 20 years and this is a first for me,” she said."
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[hellenic vanagon]

Toyota's fault

"We T-Boned a 4-door Toyota on the way home from Gabriel's tonight, but the Picketts are all okay (aside from "seat belt bruises"). They pulled out onto the highway without yielding. We must have been going about 50 when we hit them.

The windshield popped out of the Vanagon and landed 15 feet in front of us, and the radiator was leaking all over the ground but as far as I could tell we could have driven it away if we'd had to (like, if we were being chased by Godzilla or something). The horn was stuck on which I found amusing after I'd determined the other driver still had her head attached to her body. I wouldn't trust the chassis of the Vanagon anymore though, it went from 50 to 0 in an awful hurry. I'm amazed my feet weren't broken.

We took a good 2 feet of interior space away from their car. The lady driving lost consciousness but later regained. As they took her to the ambulance she sat up and asked to get her purse, so I'm hoping she'll pull through. The passenger was acting delerious but was walking around. They will both probably have some pretty serious spinal problems, from having been laterally accelerated from 0 to nearly 50 then back to 0 in under a second.

We (Picketts) all had our seat belts on. The Vanagon doesn't have air bags, and in this one particular crash that probably kept us from getting any further injuries. Our next car will have a full suite of air bags though.

At the hospital we discovered Amy has an extra rib at the top of her rib cage! So that's neat.

On the way out to eat I was thinking to myself that if we didn't have a car at all we'd be riding our bikes more and would be saving lots of money on gas, and we would think going to Gabriel's was a big deal.

The really big irony is that on the way home we were continuing our earlier discussion about whether or not we should try to sell the Vanagon and get a smaller car.

This is just the beginning of the story, I'm sure. We still don't know if the other driver was drunk, for instance. I'm a little concerned that nobody tested me for blood alcohol but I guess the officer decided I was acting pretty sober. We don't know if the other driver was insured, either.

Our insurance paperwork was expired by a couple weeks so we got a citation. We have to go to Santa Fe Magistrate court and show that yes, indeed, we were insured then. The officer said 9 times out of 10 they'll just let us go, maybe with an admonishment which I'm sure will be well-heeded. When he (the officer) asked me what happened, I told him, and his reply was a reassuring "yeah, that was my guess as soon as I saw it." So as far as liability goes I'm not going to lose any sleep.

We got home about 11:15. Ginnie fell asleep instantly. I'm going to bed now, Amy's got the TV on but I'll try to convince her to come with me. We're all going to be sore as hell tomorrow morning.

Thanks Vanagon, you did a great job!"


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[hellenic vanagon]

vs Pontiac Grand Am

"If I may add a few thoughts here- a solid concrete barrier or anything heavy, bigger and or unmovable is very unforgiving to a Vanagon.

However, hitting another vehicle such as the Volvo, or in my case, a 1992 Pontiac Grand Am, is another story.

You are familiar with the Volvo -Vanagon crash test. My own personal test was really a five car pile-up in 1996 and I had no way out but to hit the farthest vehicle from me--the Grand AM.

By the time I hit I may have been going 35, skidding 100 feet -knocking the Pontiac 20 feet away from me. The rear of the car was crunched flush with the bottom rear window.

My Vanagon was punched in around the right headlight .

No frame or suspension damage-I drove away-the Grand Am was totaled. I have seen other cars-anything larger usually gets the upper hand. Hitting the unmovable or that moving toward your front is the most unforgiving. The Accord that rear ended the Grand Cherokee was totalled-the Cherokee barely damaged. All the sedans in the 5 car pile up were totalled-ecept the Jeep and the Vanagon-from a personal perspective.( Sure, the insurance company would have totaled my Westy, but since I didn't have the full coverage I though I had, I paid out of pocket to have it fixed.) My point is you are safer in a Vanagon from most other areas of the vehicle from impact to sides and rear-and, not being very collapsible, the car vehicle that hits these areas fares badly. I have seen many vanagons that were wrecked-hitting a pole dead center is the worst I have seen. The others all look like minor injuries or none.

Vehicles like sedans don't want to be hit by the battering ram Vanagon. Even your SUV's don't have the crash rail that a Vanagon has. Their higher center of gravity makes them roll when hit by another vehicle-but they are heavy-avoid hitting one. And please don't try my test crash. Double the minimum distance between yourself and the car ahead as much as possible-and, if you can't help it, like in stop and go, then only behind a smaller vehicle. (Sorry, sedans)

Robert 1982 Westfalia"
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[hellenic vanagon]

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The Syncro Heresy

[hellenic vanagon]

Deformation element, never eliminate.

http://vid361.photobucket.com/albums/oo57/hellenic...jcdstz.mp4
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[hellenic vanagon]

Considerable

"
Real-World Crash Data Disputes NHTSA and IIHS Test Results
By Frank Williams on January 4, 2008

Pickup trucks may not be the deathtraps the NHTSA and IIHS tests make them out to be. Forbes reports research done by Virginia Commonwealth University that compared crash test ratings against data on fatal crashes. They found that while cars with higher crash test ratings show fewer fatalities than those with lower ratings, the same wasn't true for pickup trucks. In the NHTSA and IIHS tests, trucks are crashed into stationary barriers while in the real world, most crashes are vehicle-to-vehicle. In those cases, researchers postulate, the ladder frame in the pickups act as a "battering ram," allowing it to withstand an impact from a smaller, lighter vehicle better than when striking a stationary barrier. Of course, the IIHS dismisses the idea, saying they have no evidence that ladder-frame construction has any effect on crashworthiness. After all, why let real-world facts get in the way of laboratory results?"



http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2008/01/real-world-crash-data-disuptes-nhtsa-and-iihs-test-results/
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[dhaavers]

Deja vu...

http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?p=6512547&highlight=#6512547
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86 White Wolfsburg Westy Weekender
"The WonderVan"
<EDITED TO PROTECT INNOCENT PIXELS>

[hellenic vanagon]

[hellenic vanagon]

Because, Vanagon's cabin construction, retains it's rigidity, in full width, and not partially, just in the center, as happens with the 90% of the cars.

And this structure is the reason:

a late '70s design, still proper for seminars in polytechnic schools, colleges and universities.
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[Wildthings]

I can tell your for sure that a vehicle with a ladder frame can obliterate another car. Years ago I was driving a Toyota FJ40 in Mexico when a driver in a Toyota Corolla whipped out right in front of me to pass a semi. I would say that the hit was about 1/3 of the frontal width. I had a piece of 1/8" wall 8" diameter pipe for a bumper that ended up being flattened on the one side, while about two feet of the passenger side of his car was ripped and smashed front to back. Both vehicle were doing about 40mph at the time of the crash and from the time I applied my brakes until I was at a full stop was four feet, leaving a "J" shaped skid mark on the road from the impact. Luckily no one was hurt badly at all, he must of been the only Mexican at that time to have ever buckled on a seat belt and his wife amazing had just climbed into the back and was sitting on the floor behind the driver nursing her baby at the time of impact. The damages to my car in addition to the flattened bumper were broken solder on the radiator mounts, a broken battery holddown and the rivets in the frame and engine mounts being half sheared. I drove the car for years afterwards.

[danfromsyr]

then don't look under the front of a 71 or older bus.
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[Zeitgeist 13]

I'm currently servicing the front brakes on a '77 Bay, and can definitely appreciate the substantial efforts VW put into beefing up the front structural geometry on the T3, relative to the T2

[ach60]

[Merian]

yes, no one should drive a DOKA with the truck bed fully loaded

[240Gordy]

[Team WorldTour]

Did you actually watch the video all the way through?
It wasn't loaded with anything.
I think it was going way too fast. Like, top speed too fast!

Still, it's kinda scary. I'm glad there are real videos to watch that reconfirm my faith in German engineering.....
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