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busboy Samba Member

Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 304 Location: Tacoma WA
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 7:46 pm Post subject: Help - late transmission into '57 Oval |
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alright, i went to put a later model trans i got from a friend into my 57 (year of the trans i dont know) and the front mount and the hockey stick(?) dont line up and i cant take the nose cone off of the 57 trans and put it on th elater model trans because of bolt patterns. do i need to find a earlier model nosecone like an early 60s or do i need an adaptor. i think i remember hearing about using a split bus nosecone. as soon as i get the trans in i can throw in my engine and drive the thing for the first time. help me out! thanks
Brendon
From a member:
splitjunkie wrote: |
It's actually pretty simple.
All you need is a full synchro bus nose cone, hockeystick and front mount.
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211301205H
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211301265A
If you buy the nosecone aftermarket, or if you get a '67 or later original bus nose cone, you will also need the backup light switch copper crush ring and threaded plug, or backup light switch.
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=N138161
https://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=113301229A
You will have to drill a new hole on the top of the hockey stick for the mount grub screw since the screw is located on the bottom on the bus.
You will also have to drill out the mount holes on the nose cone since the studs on the bus mount are 10mm and the beetle is 8mm. You will need two 10mm nuts with 15mm heads so you can actually get the wrench around the mount nuts in the nose cone.
I am pretty sure the axles and axle tubes can be transplanted. There might be a difference in the radius on the axle retainers and axles but someone else would need to confirm or deny that. Since the oval had the straight shock mounts on the axles it would be best to use the straight mount axles. I had a '60 with a full synchro in it and it had one straight shock mount axle and one twisted mount axle so it should work. You will have to split the transmission case and dismantle the differential in order to get the axles out.
You can use the rear cradle mount, and of course replace the rear rubber mounts while you are at it.
All in all it is a pretty easy swap when you use the correct parts. |
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smack Samba Member
Joined: May 18, 2006 Posts: 26
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 9:15 pm Post subject: |
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i had to do this on my 56 rag about 20yrs ago lol.
but you're right, it was a type II nose. sorry though, i can't remember what years work.
you're definitely on the right track though. |
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IN2RUST Samba Member

Joined: October 30, 2005 Posts: 1942 Location: West Coast
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 10:20 pm Post subject: |
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They make an adaptor for this infact. You can buy it at a reputable volkswagen shop, they should have one. What it is, is a solid mount adaptor that bolts to the frame and to the transmission. Very easy and is about 20.00. Your shift linkage should line up fine after that....Hope this helps you. I bought one at bugformance in sacramento. phone # 916-929-4320 |
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RareAir Samba Member

Joined: May 11, 2002 Posts: 14577 Location: 18 miles North of the border
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vdubinit Samba Member

Joined: July 11, 2005 Posts: 1870 Location: central coast
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Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:35 pm Post subject: |
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thats some good info right there _________________ **WANTED** ONE 4 1/2 EARLY FUCH |
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KILLERWATT Samba Member

Joined: November 18, 2003 Posts: 3298 Location: Vero Beach
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Posted: Sun Jun 04, 2006 5:57 pm Post subject: |
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RareAir wrote: |
1964-67 Type 2 nose cone & hockey stick is what you'll need to mount a synchromesh transmission (1961-later) into a 1960-earlier Type 1 pan. |
I just did this a couple of months ago. The nose cone was easy to find, but I had to get the hockey stick from Rancho. Cip1 was out of stock at the time. |
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bill may Samba Member

Joined: August 27, 2003 Posts: 14160 Location: san diego,ca
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Posted: Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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transporter shifter housing(nose cone)211-301-205H shift fork(hockey stick) 113-311-541 and front trans mount 211-301-265A the hockey stick needs indnt for coupler set screw drilled 180 degrees from where it is since the original one will be on bottom for bus and beetle needs to be on top. you also have to pound clearence for nose cone to body clerance _________________ Admin note: Bill Passed away - July, 2017
1965 panel bus-Kermit
"Camping is cheaper than therapy"
www.sv2s.com
www.steeringboxscrapers.net
SBS #100
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=453617 |
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psych-illogical Samba Member

Joined: October 14, 2004 Posts: 1181 Location: AZ
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Posted: Wed Jun 07, 2006 9:20 am Post subject: |
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Wolfsburg West has the nosecone you need here:
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=211301205H
reasonably priced IMHO. By the time you round up the hockey stick and a new rubber mount, you'll be into it for less than $100. Well worth it.
As mentioned previously, there is a solid adaptor mount available for cheap but, because it is solid it transfers a hell of a lot of gear whine/transmission noise right into the passenger compartment. The rubber mount insulates you from this. My 57 has this solid mount installed by the PO and it is NOISY. I'm gonna be changing it out soon. _________________ 83 1/2 Westy waterboxer
'57 Beetle-sold
Coupla '81 BMW motorcycles (R80G/S; R100RS)
'96 BMW R1100GS |
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Texas 66 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2006 Posts: 19 Location: San Antonio, Texas
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: |
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My dad has a '57 sedan with a syncro box and a 1600. The nose of the transmission seems high and the pulley side of the motor low. Is there some way of adjusting / shimming the nose of the trans down? Also, how hard is it to replace the front trans mount? Dad's car has bad clutch chatter, apparently from a soft mount, which may be related to the first question. Thanks. |
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splitjunkie Samba Member

Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4168
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 10:40 am Post subject: |
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there is a way to correct it.
You will need to get the parts that Bill stated:
"transporter shifter housing(nose cone)211-301-205H shift fork(hockey stick) 113-311-541 and front trans mount 211-301-265A the hockey stick needs indnt for coupler set screw drilled 180 degrees from where it is since the original one will be on bottom for bus and beetle needs to be on top. you also have to pound clearence for nose cone to body clerance"
you will need to pull the engine and trans and remove the nose cone, hockey stick and mount and replace with the parts above.
Pick up a transmission gasket set while you are at it because you will need it to install the new nose cone.
the other option is to buy the later model mount plate and later model mount and weld it in.
http://www.wolfsburgwest.com/cart/DetailsList.cfm?ID=111701173c
With this you will not need to change the nosecone and hockey stick but you will need to weld in the new mount plate. You need to be very careful to align everything so everything will line up. I did this in a '60 bug and it worked well but if you are not good with a welder go with the bus parts as no welding is required.
Chris |
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Texas 66 Samba Member
Joined: June 08, 2006 Posts: 19 Location: San Antonio, Texas
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Posted: Thu Jun 08, 2006 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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We (my brother, my dad, and I) have already swaped the nose cone & hockey stick. I think a reproduction nose cone was used, but I am not sure. What I want to know is if the front mount is possibly too tall (cheap mount, bad manufacturer, etc.), or if the way the trans sits is normal for a syncro box swap.
I have a 66 sedan and compared some measurements on my car to my dad's car: The top of my fan shroud is closer to the firewall that his, my exhaust tips sit farther up (in the cut out areas of the rear apron) that his (below the body line), and the engine tin between the crank pulley and the deck lid opening on his car sits lower than the engine bay seal. The engine is sitting too far down at the back and the nose of the transaxle is too far up. I just can't figure out why. |
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busboy Samba Member

Joined: March 23, 2003 Posts: 304 Location: Tacoma WA
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Posted: Sat Jun 10, 2006 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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i went and bought an adaptor. bolted it up and the trans fits great now. thanks for the help guys! should be driving it by this coming weekend! |
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bill may Samba Member

Joined: August 27, 2003 Posts: 14160 Location: san diego,ca
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 6:16 am Post subject: |
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the bus nosecone moves the hockey stick 1" lower than normal beetle. if you weld in the newer bracket is the engine tipped at rear? i need to do this conversion to my 60 ragtop. i have 4 bus nose cones. just need to get the hockey stick and the bus 67 rubber front mount. i have the weld in mount i cut off a 63 frame also. _________________ Admin note: Bill Passed away - July, 2017
1965 panel bus-Kermit
"Camping is cheaper than therapy"
www.sv2s.com
www.steeringboxscrapers.net
SBS #100
http://www.thesamba.com/vw/forum/viewtopic.php?t=453617 |
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splitjunkie Samba Member

Joined: April 04, 2006 Posts: 4168
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Posted: Fri Jun 16, 2006 8:25 am Post subject: |
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On the 60 that I did, I cut the mount off of 69 frame which should be the same as the 63 mount that you have, it think. If I remember correctly, I used the standard beetle nosecone and hockey stick. I think that the bus nose cone is only used if you are keeping the standard mount because is was higher up than the later weld on mount.
Chris |
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PedalWerks Samba Member

Joined: January 16, 2005 Posts: 219 Location: San Bernardino SoCalif
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Posted: Tue Jul 11, 2006 9:03 pm Post subject: nose cone line up |
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I have a CB Performance "Rhino" front mount and it lifts the front nose cone about 1/4 higher than the stock mount, I have the type 2 nose cone and hockey stick but it hits the top of the hole in the body with the cb mount.
My Question is, should the type 2 nose cone on the syncro trans be centered in the hole in the body of the 55' if everything is correct.?
Thank's Scott. _________________ Nothing Exceeds Like Excess!!!
www.pedalwerks.com
@pedalwerksdotcom
909-289-9655
12' Golf 2.5
07' Rabbit 2.5
59' Single Cab
57' Oval hard top
55' Oval hardtop |
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spooky Samba Member
Joined: January 05, 2006 Posts: 203 Location: Bristol, UK
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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bill may wrote: |
transporter shifter housing(nose cone)211-301-205H shift fork(hockey stick) 113-311-541 and front trans mount 211-301-265A the hockey stick needs indnt for coupler set screw drilled 180 degrees from where it is since the original one will be on bottom for bus and beetle needs to be on top. you also have to pound clearence for nose cone to body clerance |
how much "pounding" is required? - i dont like the sound of "pounding"!!
can't the nose cone be clearanced?
thanks |
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KantDriveFast Samba Member

Joined: January 08, 2005 Posts: 4293 Location: Caldwell, Id.
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Posted: Mon Oct 30, 2006 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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bill may wrote: |
the bus nosecone moves the hockey stick 1" lower than normal beetle. if you weld in the newer bracket is the engine tipped at rear? i need to do this conversion to my 60 ragtop. i have 4 bus nose cones. just need to get the hockey stick and the bus 67 rubber front mount. i have the weld in mount i cut off a 63 frame also. |
Just wrapping up the install in my '60.
The bus front mount won't fit the '60 pan. Bought one, don't need it. The bus nose cone and hockey stick bolted right up to the stock '60 only front mount, and the shift rod lined up just right. I dont have it on the ground yet, but the angle of the trans looks ok. Just need to re-index the hockey stick, and I should be all good? |
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johan_l Samba Member

Joined: March 14, 2004 Posts: 533
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Posted: Sun Nov 25, 2007 3:21 pm Post subject: |
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As we are already discussing a 1960 in this thread - does the 1960 need "pounding"? This is a ghia, but I'd guess it has the same body in these parts...
By the way, the bus-nose-cone is needed to get correct angle och gearbox/engine package! The solid mount won't work that good... _________________ Johan, Sweden
1960 Karmann-Ghia coupé
1957 Oval window
Bastard Split window <-- Translate |
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Alan Willis Banned

Joined: November 22, 2004 Posts: 4181 Location: booted from the SEWR and stalked in here
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Posted: Mon Nov 26, 2007 4:20 pm Post subject: |
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I'll try to get a pic this weekend of my '58 while the body is off the pan. I ground off the stock mount,and used a '62-later front mount with the factory '62-later type 1 hockey stick and nose cone;bolted up perfectly and no clearance issues. _________________ die schwarzen Schafe #666 |
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SixVolt  Samba Member

Joined: January 04, 2004 Posts: 1136 Location: Cleveland, Ohio
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Posted: Thu Feb 23, 2012 6:36 am Post subject: |
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Anyone know if there is any difference between a 211-301-205H nosecone and a 211-301-205E nosecone? Will the "E" cone work in this application? I've got the WW mount & hockey stick just thought I'd ask before doing all the install work. |
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